They really are trying to kill CM Punk's heat *ECW Spoilers*
 

"...and ended with an awful finish which long time ECW faithful will look down upon."

That can be applied to the entire concept of a "New" ECW...

Looks fine to me. Punk went over, he got the win and the last word. Don't see a problem.

The fans shat all over the finish of the match, that can help kill the heat for both of the wrestlers involved. But since Holly was in the match, it only hurts Punk.

Just because someone wins a match, doesn't mean they won't lose any momentum. Especially if the finish is a joke.

They need to move him to Raw.

Sounds like the ones they're killing are RVD and Thorne. Losing to Test...a dark match?!? :nono: I just hope they aren't leading to a Test/Lashley feud. This is why I quit watching ECW because the writing team is too stubborn to give us any storyline/feuds that I give two shits about.

Well I can only talk about what I know. I don't know this match was shit (haven't seen it,) but lets say it's the worst match of all time. Just hypothetically, I wont hurt Punk or Holly. It's one match. Plus it's gonna be on a Saturday night, so at least no one will see it. And as far as you saying that they are trying to kill Punk's heat, I have a hard time believing they wanted the match to suck every bit as much as they wanted the finish to get shit on.

It probably will suck, but it's no big deal. No one is out to get Punk. you're overreacting.

It was the finish that sucked and the fans let it show. Booking 101 says that a poorly booked finish can hurt a person's heat. If this is shown on an ECW show and the match ended because of someone punching another person repeatedly, you know that the finish will not be well received.

Hell even if this was a Raw match, that kind of finish would be booed out of the building. That will only hurt the wrestlers involved. A 3 year old girl would be able to tell that this kind of finish would suck.

I'm not overreacting, I'm just making a casual observation. An overreaction would be "OMGGGGG WWE SUCKS, I'M NEVER WATCHING IT AGAIN!!! PUNK NEEEDS TO GOTO TNA!"

RVD's contract is nearing its end and it's possible that RVD won't resign, so why not?

I promise, Punk will just as over come next Tuesday as he was going into the match. If these kinds of happenings continue for several weeks then you'll have an arguement. 1 bad finish doesn't mean someone is trying to kill his heat. He lost at D2D, no big deal. Last week he went over strong. This week a poorly booked finish. He's fine man. You're overeacting.

Yeah, I know he hasn't helped is own cause either. Just sad to see IMO. When is his contract up?

Wow. Isn't Punk one of the guys they're actually BIG on?

Fuck's sake, they don't know how to get anyone over, do they?

Triple H is probably conspiring against him in some way

That's what everyone is saying (they're retarded, but that's what they are saying.)

This reminds me of something CM Punk said on his Q&A.

Someone said to him: "What will you do if WWE misuses you like they misused Shannon Moore?

CM Punk: I'll probably by a hummer and a nice house, just like he did.

That might be the greatest quote ever.

wait...did i read that right??

Dreamer Challenges The Great Khali........Dreamer wins in two minutes with a DDT......Wait...so did he beat Khali in 2 minutes???? If that is true then how does that make Taker look. The guy put on multiple matches against him that took forever...and Taker still lost...here comes Dreamer and beats the guy in two minutes?

LOL. Not a new thing (Other people have said the same thing, or to the same extent), but still. :y:

Dreamer beat Diavari.

The Triple H holding Punk down theories steam from the fact that before debuting Triple H openly talked about how Punk didn't have "it".

One poorly booked finish, on a show that doesn't even air during it's normal time, will not kill his heat. Was it a good thing? No. And if the crowd started chanting "Re-fund!" or "Bull-shit!" or anything or that nature I would be proud of them.

If RVD doesn't resign a contract, they better as hell do a heel Punk/Straight Edge vs. face RVD/Stoner angle damn soon. It's really the only potential light in ECW right now.

The Hummer and Big House quote by Punk shows he is the mang in and out of the ring.

I am done.

I don't think HHH is holding down Punk, I just think they are trying to "stabilize" Punk so he won't get super over and out shine the true stars of WWE like Cena and Lashley.

It's just funny how since Survior Series, Punk has been starting to be treated like just any other Upper-Midcarder.

They could've used the ECW before D2D to build a Test/Punk fued, which looked like that was going to happen. Then at D2D, they eliminated Punk first which ruined his undefeated streak with little to no drama and nothing to build off of.

And now they put him in a match with Holly, which I don't mind. Then they might've killed their feud before it even got started by having that lame ass DQ finish. I mean jesus if they are going to use a DQ finish, at least make it somewhat decent. Like having them both bring chairs into the ring or copy the Test/Punk finish from a couple of weeks back and have them brawl outside to a Double Countout.

OK, I could be wrong because I haven't watched ECW in a long time (only been keeping tabs online)...BUT didn't they have Diavari on a winning streak since debuting on ECW? They have been basically jobbing Dreamer out to EVERYONE since being on Sci Fi...yet now Diavari get's beat by him in 2 minutes????

The booking of this doesn't make any sense...but why should I be suprised?

Diavari has already lost to Dreamer...by a DDT...in under 2 minutes...so this isn't new or shocking.

Oh, alright. Like I said, haven't been watching lately. Which means I probably shouldn't be bitching either......

39. If you get fired from wwe would you go back to roh or any other fed?

No. I will sign a fat Pride contract and get paid more money than you'll ever see in your entire life to get knocked out by Mirko CroCop in under 7 seconds in what Dave Meltzer will hail as the best shoot fight of the year due to my awesome attempt to tell the ref that he pulled my hair.

OMG ROFL. Link me to the rest of this plz.

Sounds like a lame finish in the Punk/Holly match, but otherwise the show doesn't look bad. I still generally enjoy the show each week, although it may be harder to catch this week.

Will you retract this thread if he still gets mad cheers for the next few weeks? I mean I understand what you're saying and all but I thought it was something horrible like having him job to a rubber chicken in a squash.

Just because he gets popped next week doesn't mean they're not trying to kill his heat. They tried it with Christian and failed...

Notice the keyword "trying" as in to try to do something. Need I remind you about who they have done it to in the past?

ie: Christian last year, RVD from 2001-2003, and Booker T in 2003

And its all because Triple H doesnt like them.
Triple H called Booker T "inconsistent" in 2003, and thats why he wasnt given the belt at the height of his stardom.

I doubt they're trying to though.

That would indicate WWE could make a conscious decision and make it work.

I dont think they're trying to bury him, they just dont know what the fuck they're doing.
Seriously, I'm against pushing him too soon, but with the state things are in and the heat hes getting...they need to make a move with him there now. Whether it be book him in a high profile fued, give him a new TV title, or even put the title on him (though i dont want it yet)
Either that or move the guy off the sinking ship and put him on Raw or Smackdown.
It'd be awesome to see him fued with Jeff or Benoit or somebody. Then they could really showcase him.

They need to push someone fast. And if Punk has serious heat, they probably should push him. Though I hate the guy. From his overrated skills to his total face persona, I would rather see him dead than on TV, and will personally be happy to see him totally buried.

On the other hand, that doesn't make it the smartest move. Not everyone thinks their fetishes are the answer to WWE's problems.

Everyone hates the French

He has my love <3 <3

Oh. :o

Not to mention he wanted to 'keep the belt strong' for when Goldberg got it. So what happens when Goldberg is supposed to get it in the chamber? HHH wins.

not to mention he comes in and doesnt do one wrestling move to retain. That night sickened me.
If it was strong leading up to that, it wasnt very strong after that night. And whats the point of making a belt 'strong' when the guy you've put a year into obtaining it only gets to run with it for 2 months
I'm sure Punk is too small for Triple H's liking. Punk fits more into the category of guys Foley or Heyman would push for backstage (Jericho, RVD, Booker) and not the types Triple H and Flair seem to gush over (Batista).

WWE needs to do something with Punk, and they need to do it now. If I had it my way I would send him to SmackDown and put him in a program with Benoit for the US Title that would last from Royal Rumble until WrestleMania. Or I would send him to RAW, and put him in some high profile fueds. But they absolutely need to do SOMETHING because while he is retaining his heat on ECW, it's only a matter of time before it becomes stale.

That's what I'd do, too. CM Punk has stated in an interview (with IGN, I believe) that his dream match is Chris Benoit & CM Punk vs. William Regal & Finlay. Where are three of those men now? Moving Punk to SmackDown! would help the WWE out greatly. It provides them with another babyface, a solid worker for the mid-card, and it helps put Punk into perspective amongst WWE Superstars. Does it leave ECW looking weaker? Sure, but who gives a fuck, it sucks these days anyway.

And I am of the belief they are trying to kill Punk's heat. Not majorly, to the point where they can't build him up again, but to just keep him down until they think he's been in the WWE long enough to justify making money off him. As KoOS said, the excessive punching finish would be called bullshit in the WWE. Even for the new ECW, that is a stupid fucking way to end the match. Why not have Holly use a steel chair, or bring out his trash can lids and go windmill style on Punk?

I thought Triple H was taken out of context when he said Punk didn't know how to control a crowd, and that he was being sarcastic. I guess I was wrong, hence the post-Survivor Series bitterness towards Punk by the creative team. :-\

I stand by my statement after tonight.

Good call

aka I'm beyond pissed, even moreso than after sitting through that Rosie/Trump shit last night.

Holly made Punk look as much as a jobber as Triple H did to RVD during a match they had a couple of years ago.

This whole feud has made Punk look pathetic.

Pretty much, Punk was gonna lose at some point but that was horrible. I would have rather WWE used the typical feet on the ropes roll up, just so they made it look like Holly couldn't beat Punk clean..........but cmon it's Hardcore Holly, he's awesome, he's over, he's shit.

What the fuck? I'm glad that I've decided to only catch ECW on Hardcore Hangover, because they only reason I tuned in was for Punk. I don't need to see him jobbing to Holly CLEAN. Retarded.

It's retarded. But they're not TRYING to kill his heat, they just are because they don't know any better as to what they're doing.
Vince has regressed. He knows as well as anyone what works now, and what used to work. And he's made a point of making his priorities shift back to the cheesy, unskilled, bull fights of the 80s, and has given up on the CM Punk types. Thats why Great Khali, Umaga, Lashley and whoever are pushed...while RVD, CM Punk and others flounder in the midcard.
Its probably because HHH doesn't like "little punks" like CM or Jericho. Whatever, they're funeral.

Of all the people to put over C.M. Punk, why let it be Job Holly?

That Q+A on Punks site rocks

Is the WWE going to make you change your finisher, since a variation of the move is used by Triple H? Yeah, they want me to beat people via count out ala the BERZERKER. Or maybe it was the anaconda vice...I forget.

Is it me or were a lot of Punk-sters saying that he should win the ECW title at Mania a month or so ago. Now he's dead, buried and paid his dues to Bobcore, lots are saying he's not ready.

Man, Vince has you all figured out.

I (being a "Punk-ster") never wanted him with the ECW title at WM. That would be blowing the load way too soon. And I really don't mind him losing. But to go down clean to Holly at the beginning of the feud makes him look like a bitch. Especially after he couldn't lock on the Anaconda Vice a few weeks back. The man who's all about competition goes down to the barely-ever-was.

JEsus Christ. Jericho was around the main event/upper midcard scene most of his time in WWE. He's actually liked backstage, too. RVD? RVD blew a monster push, a huge moment, and a championship reign because he had to get baked and then get caught in a car with drugs. Van Dam blew his chance, Jericho helped make Milli Vanilli look good (He enhanced the ME scene, perdiod). These are bad examples (Well, Van Dam would be a good example except for this "back to the old school of wrestling" complaint about recent events, since RVD was wasted like 5 years ago almost).

:lol:

Are any of you REALLY shocked that he lost?

Shocked is not the right word. Disappointed. But that's a feeling that I generally associate with WWE.

Nope.

You know, it makes me laugh when people say "he's not ready yet" about guys who have been wrestling for years. RVD was the most over guy in the company in 2001 and the RIGHT time to put him over as the champion was No Mercy 2001. He had only been there for a few months, but he was white-hot. That they let it play out for so long lessened the impact when he finally won it, years later.

The RIGHT time to put C.M. Punk in as the champ, if that IS the eventual plan, would be by or at WrestleMania. So fucking what if he's new to the company? He's paid enough dues in the business (even if that isn't in WWE)not to be jobbed out to Job Holly. They need to strike while the iron is hot.

Yes. Working in the indies is the same as being onboard for WWE's biggest rivals, and already being a high profile character.

What I'm saying is it doesn't matter where somebody has worked before, or even how long for, if they are super-over and the fans WANT to see it happen, then make it happen. It's good business in my view. Give the people want they want to see.

Fuck the boys in the back, 90% of them will never be satisfied with their position anyway, and there will be backstage animosity to a new guy put in the main event whether he's a rookie or a 10 year veteran. You can't please everyone, but you can try to please your audience.

Jericho as a face Champ
RVD 2001
Carlito

Shall we go on?

Booker T 2003

and coming soon to an online smark rant near you...CM Punk and Ken Kennedy

Chris Jericho once said 'mediocrity is excellence'. It now is.

Chris Jerichos entire debut speech is eerily relevant haha. Literally every word rings true.

Worked well for Matt Hardy.

And Orton.

And Cena.

Well, actually, it did work for Cena, but only because WWE doesn't care that he was getting booed, or buyrates started to suffer.

who cares. I hope WWE fails miserably.

That's kind of loaded though. Unless CM Punk is Unified Champ on all four shows, he'll not get close to what the smarks expect. Kennedy? He'd better win the Rumble, hold all titles on Smackdown, and single handedly eliminate every man in the Royal Rumble...

Basically, I'm saying that Punk could be pushed to the moon, and Smarks would insist they should have pushed him to Mars instead.

Mars > Moon

:(

Sorry, but it does miss the point. The point being, even if they use him well, and give him everything the Smarks normally say someone should have, he'll be underused. Because, like Kennedy, Burchill, RVD, Kurt Angle and many others in the past, he is the internet Golden Boy, who will deliver wrestling to salvation, and no ammount of attention from WWE will ever change the fact that one man cannot do that. Even Austin and Hogan really didn't.

It's more or less setting WWE up for a fall, which is tiresome in and of itself. They do a good enough job of fucking shit up without holding them to impossible standards. The IWC will never let well enough alone. Chris Jericho was so underused, despite being given more leeway on the mic than a lot of wrestlers in WWE, being a Unified Champ, and being in the ME scene a LOT. Many Kurt Angle fans jumped on the bandwagon when he left and said that Kurt was underused and Underappreciated. Yeah, the guy who had just been champ on Smackdown, had been sent to ECW to try and gain ratings, and has been treated by the WWF/E since his arrival as though he had a solid Gold DICK, was underused.

No matter how well it goes with Punk, he won't have been pushed far enough, hard enough, in the right way. He won't have gotten the titles soon enough, he didn't ME Mania soon enough, etc. The multiple threads we have on the subject already before his push is even dead should indicate this.

^ But that doesn't excuse them from the shit job they're doing, sounds like you're trying to take the attention away from the real point here KK.

That's my point. I'm saying they SHOULD try to please their audience, not that they actually DO.

You mean the dead horse the smarktards are flogging?

Sure, do go on about it. I'm not sure what else can be said, except that they're overreacting. That's what got me on this tangent i the first place. You...DO know the internet, right? Most threads on this board sidetrack into other things.

But please. Don't let me get between you and the horse. There's still a little bit by the anus that I was saving for the One.

This is totally jumping the gun. This still isn't the end of CM Punk's push, until WWE proves otherwise. You're already jumping the gun, too. Unless they are taping ECW three weeks at a time now, you know as little about next week as I do, and that means a loss here or there in and of itself is not the end. If they do it next week, if they work an entire program where CM Punk loses or looks horribly worse for the wear consistently, then you will have a valid reason to complain about the "Shit job" they're doing. But so far, you've got no pattern. You've got a match. Isolated.

And again, this is where my "loaded" comments come in.

Nobody's stopping you from diving in with the Smarktards and discussing how this is the end of Punk's career, how he'll never work again, and how he'll be taken out back and given the "Ole Yeller" treatment, or whatever you guys want to make this out to be. The fact is, they've got sweet fuck all to complain about. Granted, I'd laugh my ass off if they did kill his heat. But I wouldn't want to take attention away from that, either.

I'd be howling with laughter, but I wouldn't want to take away from the enjoyment.

I see the death of his push as inevitable, but it's stupid to write him off after one match. After all, I don't like Punk, so he'll probably Main Event.

They've tried to. Several times. It was usually disaster, but if all you're looking for is an attempt, then open your eyes.

I personally think that after that post, that you're the one who is overreacting. Punk lost to Holly clean, how is that overreacting? Of all heels to lose to clean he lost to Holly. I'm not surprised people are reacting this way. But I guess you're right and they're all wrong yeah? Ofcourse...

And exactly which heel on ECW could he have lost to and it not resulted in the long tirades?

^Maybe test?

'Of all people to job him to, TEST! He's done nothing since the McMahon/Helmsley angle! He used to be in a tag team with ALBERT for fucks sake! I would have preferred Holly, at least he's 'hardcore'! They are killing Punks heat......(and so on)'

That's how it would have been.

^ Um no, stop sucking upto KK please. Test is far better/ more credible than Holly. But don't let the truth step in the way of you thinking that way.

Saying that Test is more credible than Holly is like saying that Britney Spears is more credible than Jessica Simpson.

I'm sucking up to no-one. My opinion is my own. Stop changing the subject because you've backed yourself into a corner.

Test is no more and no less credible than Holly.

Yes, that's exactly what I said.

God, now you're not just going out of your way to find a reason to bitch about WWE, but also about me. Good one. :y:

:lol: you sure don't.

Probably been said, but since when is one loss to ANYBODY considered a de-push?

If he's continued to be jobbed out then there's reason for concern, but people, it's one loss in a feud.

Will it destroy Punk if he goes on and wins the feud? No, it'll push him up a level, no matter who he beats. If he loses the feud? Again, then there's reason for concern. But one loss is nothing. Are you all expecting him to be an unstoppable force?

There's more than one way to push someone.

(Didn't read the whole thread so I'm guessing I missed something...)

Actually, I takle it back. You're all right. CM Punk is such a loser that a single loss will kill off all his support and end his miserable career. I mean, it's not like he's got talent, momentum, or a following.

So let's just start asking now: Whatever happened to "Carry Me" Punk?

I mean, honestly..How shitty must the guy be to have his heat killed off by a single loss? ;)

Stop sucking up to KK. Don't let the facts get in the way of your argument.

I didn't even read his posts. :shifty:

Lies. The only way you could possibly disagree with TL is if you're kissing Kane Knight's Ass. I mean, what you're saying is that you're right and everyone else is wrong, right? Thought so. You're the one overreacting.

For the first time ever, I copletely agree with Kane Knight. You all are over-reacting, calm down, it was one match.

NoDQ.com > WWE > CM Punk currently in the WWE dog house
Posted by Aaron Rift on 01/13/2007 at 05:13 PM

CM Punk is currently in the dog house for openly disagreeing with the layout of the Elimination Chamber match at December to Dismember. This is the main reason why his winning streak was ended on ECW TV this past week. Punk was personally told by Arn Anderson that "after 14 years on being on WWE televison, Holly is the bigger star" as an explanation as to why the heel should pin the babyface clean. Also Vince McMahon has suggested that CM Punk turn heel.

Fuck yeah, CM Punk heel turn.

Not that it would really make a whole lot of sense right now, but oh well.

:lol:

Looks like I was right after all. Backstage prick.

Not to sound like your stereotypical Punk mark here, but how do you know that he was being a prick? Just because you voice a disagreement doesn't mean that you were a bitch about it.

I'm talking most specifically about doing so when the opportunity presents intself on a plate ie. the aborted/neglected pushes of RVD, Booker T and more recently C.M. Punk.

I'm not a big C.M. Punk mark... I don't honestly see what all the fuss is about... but I do realise that he seems to have more of a cult fanbase now than anyone who has come through the pike in recent times. Rather than capitalise on this, they seem intent of making him "pay his dues". Fuck "dues". You're supposed to be running a business here.

It is history repeating itself. You can say that WWE does occasionally try to appease their fans by giving them what they want. More often than not, however, it is either so long since the moment passed that nobody really cares anymore (RVD's title win) or atrocious booking kills any momentum dead almost immediately (InVasion, Matt Hardy 2005).

C.M. Punk will probably be embroiled in the mid card for the next year, losing nearly as often as he is winning; the crowd chants getting quieter and quieter with each passing month. Then, he will eventually become a champion in ECW (or whichever brand he is on) but, bar a big pop for the novelty of his victory, his heat will have evaporated.

Hey, I don't care either way. I think the guy has potential to be the next huge guy, based on the character he is playing. It could connect with the whole emo/straight-edge rock movement and make WWE cool again. That would be a good thing for me, as a fan. It pains me to see WWE steer in the wrong direction once again, focusing more of their energies on celebrity endorsements and comedy spoofs than the direction the company should take to remain relevant in today's entertainment market. C.M. Punk could well be the key to their future success, if anybody in that company has any balls left.

I mean, I could really see the next generation of WWE led by C.M. Punk and Ken Kennedy as the modern day equivelants to Savage/Hogan and Austin/Rock, with one being an edgy character with great ring skills, the other being more of an entertainer, a speaker, the antithesis of his opposite.

I sound like I'm jumping on the internet bandwagon of loving Punk and Kennedy. I don't. I'm not a huge fan of either (yet, anyway).

But I can still see the potential, and if WWE played their cards right, I could easily see a WrestleMania one day headlined by C.M. Punk vs Ken Kennedy in a "Super Match", much like Hogan vs Savage, Hogan vs Warrior and Rock vs Austin; the two undisputed stars of the company go one-on-one at the biggest show of the year.

And I'm saying this as a guy who has never seen either guy have a match that I would personally class as above average. (But then I haven't seen much of Punk in ROH)

I'm sorry, but you don't walk into a company and start voicing your disapproval with people that have been, not only in the business longer than you, but have made a vast success of running the business. Not openly either. Say what you have to say in private or bite your tongue. Punk appears (and always has to me) too big for his boots. His website says that, his blogs say that. If what is above is true, then he got his just rewards - that'll learn him.

Just because he has a internet fan base and one big pop event at Survivor Series, doesn't mean you wander around thinking you are the big cheese/the head honcho/the main man.

As Kevin Nash once said - 'Come back to me when you've main-evented a couple of Wrestlemania's'.