ROH get a PPV deal
 

Significant enough for it's own thread methinks.

ROH on PPV. :cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Idgzsd6tjUU

So when exactly is the "ROH is/isn't ECW" fight going to break out?

This is great news for wrestling.

Nice.

:y:

*marks out*

Whenever some retard who doesn't know what he's talking about wants to start it

Well, there goes TNAs ratings.
Maybe some of WWEs too, depending on what day RoH is on.

There will only be 6 PPVs a year, it's not a TV deal

Until they see the huge buy rates.

Exactly, it's not going to happen.

lets not get ahead of ourselves here

Holy fucking shit!

YESSSSSSSSS!

I now understand why Joe and Daniels have left them

SAWEET!

FUCK

YES

Great news, but I'm trying to see what negatives this would have.

Only thing I can think of right now is you can say goodbye to the current theme musics, unless there's someway they can get around that.

<font color=white>Please.

:roll:</font>

I look at the people saying this is a good thing and these people think they know wrestling.

:lol:

You want the negatives?

1 - Already a stupid amount of wrestling shows on PPV already. WWE does something like 16. TNA does 12. UFC are doing a minimum of 12 and don't anyone even come out with they aren't competition because WWE gives a shit who UFC are and don't care who ROH are. As soon as somebody is trying to get you to buy their monthly show, it's competition.

2 - ROH is built on DVD sales. Those sales are doing down now. Fact! People won't buy DVDs and PPVs of the same show when they roughly come out at the same time.

3 - PPV's that are taped NEVER do well.

4 - They are barely a blip on the IWC. You think the average person will chose ROH over WWE or TNA when their production is worse than anything ECW put on PPV?

5 - They won't even come close to TNA's buyrates and will very soon be losing money. When you are on PPV, you immediately lose 50% of fee you charge your customers to the PPV companies. Then it takes forever to get your money (and it's not 50% either) back from the companies. Plus you can't charge more than you charge for your DVDs so that's even less money. Oh and the IWC are fucking famous for bootlegging shit through torrents and what not so that's even less money being spent on PPV.

6 - If ROH had anything resembling a star, they are all gone now.

Gabe always said he would never want them to do PPV and I'd be shocked if this was his call. The writing is on the wall for ROH now.

Oh and I LOVE how at least one of the people getting their nipples so hard about the prospect of ROH being on PPV... DOESN'T EVEN LIVE IN NORTH AMERICA!!! He can't even get the fucking show on TV.

But I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. Or maybe I'm just telling you what you refuse to believe.

Rob - Telling it like it is.

*Sucks Rob off*

I like ROH alot, but have never bought a DVD, I just download the ones I want off the internet the day they come out, and yea I'll see there PPV's but Ill never pay for one.

The positive: wrestling we enjoy on PPV with a chance of growing. Yeah. Enjoy life folks, you'll live longer.

Loving this right now. I'm looking foward to the 1st of July.

Delusional.

Yeah, it'll get cancled before the first airing. :roll:

I wouldn't fuck with Rob. He seems to know his shit. I was happy when I first read that ROH has a PPV deal, but Rob points out some key factors that will more than likely cripple Ring Of Honor.

And coming off as hostile and arrogrant.

Look, I'll be the first to admit that I'm still learning about wrestling and I don't know everything about it, so the comment of "I'm not telling you anything you don't alreadly know or I refuse to believe it" was stupid because guess what, I had no idea what negatives this would have and was asking for someone's insight.

A lot of your points I can't debate. However, I'm agreeing and disagreeing with your fourth point. In comparsion to WWE, UFC and possibly TNA, yes, they aren't that big, but the way I see it, they're doing a lot better than most independent feds, so I wouldn't call them a blip when someone's able to recognize the initials 'ROH' but not 'AWE'. I will agree that their production quality needs work. After watching that video clip again, I thought to myself 'That might pass for DVD release, but they really need more lighting and more camera work done if they're going on PPV.' And until things have changed, they really need a second microphone, it's awkward to see them pass around a mic, especially during promos with rivalries and it's going to come off as bush-league.

I don't see this as a nail in the coffin for ROH, but after hearing what you've said, I do think this may hurt them. Hopefully, they're smart enough to pull the plug on PPVs if it's doing more harm than good.

You ROH marks think I'm saying this to be a dick? Someone said they didn't see the negatives so I pointed them out. I don't see many positives to this at all personally. A couple of years ago would have been the time to do if they were ever going to and they didn't.

The problem is they are too big to be an indy and too small to be on the national scale.

I would love to ROH and TNA to be WCW size companies. But they aren't and will never be. If TNA can't make money on PPV running the same buildings for free, how is ROH?

ROH is not a blip ont he radar, they're barely a blip on the IWC', no one who isn't IWC knows what the hell ROH is.

I apologise if you took offense because nothing I said was directed to you personally.

It was directed at me.. Rob hates me :'(

Yeah you fucker!

Nah I love you really :kiss:

It's only cause I suck you off when you make a point :-p

And?

HBK2K - I'm just going by my experiences, people that I've talked to online who have a interest in independent wrestling know what ROH is or at least have heard of the initials and can say 'They're a professional wrestling company'. Outside of the IWC, they're not even a sprinkle on a donut when you look at them on a mainstream scale and anyone who tries to debate that is being foolish. So... agreeing and disagreeing with your statement.

Rob - No apology neccesary, but thanks. I do appreciate you sharing your points and trying to explain why this is more of a negative than a positive.

I'd be interested in seeing a ROH ppv. I'll take them over TNA anyday.

I'll order the shows in a heartbeat, and I will do everything I can to suck other people into watching it.

I'm sure ROH will do everything in their power to make the first ppv their best show ever.

Also, with ROH, I don't think taping will hurt them as much, because they've always been more about the inring actions, versus the "story." If reviews of the show say there were a shitload of awesome matches, I think it'll help sell the ppv.

Still though, I can't imagine this is going to do anything but suck money from ROH... We'll see.

No doubt Danielson is one of them.

Rob is seriously just issuiong reality. While I hope he's wrong, I know the odds are good that he's right.

If I had to pick 12...

Danielson,
McGuiness
The Briscoes
Jimmy Rave
Brent Albright
Claudio Catignolli
Roderick Strong
Davey Richards
Rocky Romero
Delirious
BJ Whitmer

Those aren't my personal picks, but the people on the active roster who ROH would be afraid WWE or TNA may pick up before the PPV deal is up.

I didn't realize the PPV's were going to be taped then put out, that could hurt them.

But I think this could also be a way of ROH keeping the talent they have left, TNA and WWE have hurt the roster on many times now, if everyone is getting contracts, it's a step in the right direction for them expanding. They've always done things very slowly at ROH, this is the next logical step

You don't say fact without providing evidence, so let's see it. Not having a go, just curious.

If DVD sales are going down per show I could understand it, as they are running more and more shows, so it's going to be expensive for fans to get them all.

But that would be subsidized by the fact they are bringing in more cash with shows and saving costs now because they are not using TNA guys

Hopefully this isn't a case of ROH trying to dive into a world their not suited to be in. When ECW started growing, they weren't financially strong enough to stay afloat. They pushed themselves into a situation that killed them. If ROH gets restless and tries to push their promotion outside of it's current niche and make a push for PPV and TV, they'll face the same problems as ECW did and end up collapsing in on themselves. Even if they get the exposure to elevate stars with a buzz, they'll be bought off. And it's not like they're going to bring in anything on par with the assets of WWE or even TNA. Instead of existing happily and perhaps steadily growing as a third tier promotion that's big on the indy scene, they step into a situation that forces them to keep up with the major leagues when they're for all intents and purposes the minor leagues.

TNA just pulled all of their talent from ROH, so no more Aries or Homicide

I have a feel Aries is gonna pull a Punk though.

Rob definitely knows his shit, no doubt about that, but I definitely see that as being a good thing.

What is Ring of Honor supposed to do? Sit on their thumbs and wait until Vince dies? ROH is also a slightly different product to the WWE and TNA. This isn't a WWA, it's more an "alternative" than the same shit being packaged in a different bottle.

I know it's not suddenly going to make ROH catch on like wildfire, but this could be the grease the turns the wheels. I mean, the countries that have ROH on television would probably be eager to get some hands on PPVs. This American deal might be exclusive at the moment, but I don't see it as ROH trying to bite off more than it can chew, but rather them finally taking those first steps to becoming a player. Not the biggest, but possibly the best.

In a climate where the WWE and (sadly) now TNA throw crap at the viewers screens, Ring of Honor provides quality. Maybe I haven't been following the promotion enough, but has ROH ever put on a bad show? I don't mean one match that didn't click, I mean a show people regretting seeing?

I know your argument wasn't against the quality of ROH, rather the money this is costing compared to the money it is raking in, but I really think the promotion has grown. They're doing world tours, they've got some healthy relationships with Japan. I don't know business as well as I could (I do have some education in the area), but it wouldn't surprise me if ROH strikes up a working agreement with Pro Wrestling NOAH, Dragon Gate and maybe even some smaller American independant promotions, to get them mentions, and maybe even their titles defended at a show.

Sure, ROH's DVD sales are down, but YouTube viewings are up. I mean, ROH fans are smart, they aren't going to fork out all this cash for a DVD, when they can just type "Bryan Danielson" into YouTube. That could also come into play with the PPV thing, but I think loyalty will come into play here.

I mean, just polling people here, who will actually support this thing? If ROH were holding PPVs in Australia, I'd order them quite gladly. Definitely over WWE and TNA. ROH definitely has those two promotions beat in terms of quality, and I don't think quality is a factor that can completely be ignored.

I guess I'm just being positive, but I want to see this thing work. I don't think ROH would take such a big chance if it means they'd be done for. It wouldn't take much to rebuild, but I don't think the risks aren't being evaluated by ROH.

I wouldn't look at this as the climax for ROH (at least, I hope not), but rather a stepping stone. Just order their events, support the art form, and maybe the WWE will take notice, and throw them cash under the table like they did with ECW back in the day. I'm not going to call this a stupid move, I've going to call it ambitious, and I'm glad there is finally a quality wrestling product out there.

A lot of indys companies have come and gone since ECW closed up shop. ROH has stayed the course and found their own niche in the wrestling world. With that said, over the last 5 years they pretty much have all the fans they can reach via the Internet Wrestling Community. Why not take a shot at a taped PPV which will only cost $10-$15? Some casual fans will see a new wrestling promotion, and maybe they'll take the chance. A live to tape PPV costs a hell of a lot less than a live PPV. No production truck, no live commentary.

The show itself on 5/12 will probably go the normal 3-4 hours for an ROH show, so they can edit it and give us the best 2 hours of the show. Crowd craps all over Adam Pierce's match? Doesn't need to go on the show.

And some quick notes I got from PWInsider Elite:

-music will stay the same
-production will go up at the show, upgrades to the lighting/cameras/etc.


Of course there are risks with this, but ROH always goes about expansion carefully. They just pulled out of St. Paul, Minnesota because they weren't breaking even there. Same with Boston last year, and Buffalo. If they don't get in the black after this PPV, they probably won't renew their contract after the 6 are up.

I think he will also, he hates TNA and they don't like him back.

Oh, and just another point: I don't think being taped will actually hurt Ring of Honor. They're not a show to base themselves around revelations and surprises. I mean, it's like fine art making compared to American horror films. I think ROH will actually find a way to make it work to their advantage.

Namely, I can see them putting on as many MOTY candidates as possible. I don't know, maybe just matches like The Briscoes vs. KENTA and Naomichi Marufuji for the ROH World Tag Team Championship. Through word of mouth they could spread, and people might actually be itchy to buy on July 1st.

I actually think a lot of thought has gone into this. July isn't go-go-go month is the wrestling industry, and it's not like they're putting on a show every month (or every week, somehow TNA survived that and continues to grow).

I don't think ROH will be the biggest company by the end of the year, or anything, but watch their shows; if you have friends who watch wrestling, network; pray to Gabe this works out! TNA went to the PPV stage before they were ready, and had shit going every week. It was Jeff Jarrett headlined shit, too. Less people know him, but more people will be impressed with Bryan Danielson. As bland as he appears to be, he will fucking kick your head in.

And who knows, it's not public or anything yet, but ROH might be having their pockets filled from somewhere. I'm not sure how big Mitsuharu Misawa's accounts are, and he has his own going-ons to worry about, but who knows? This is crazy to even suggest, but Hulk Hogan is pretty pissed off at Vince McMahon at the moment. It's not his cup of tea, but who knows, maybe he got to sleep with Lacey, or something? Maybe Gabe was smart enough to dress her up like Hogan. A version of himself with a vagina...Hogan's dream partner.

I'm pretty sure ROH will be busting out the MOTYs, they'll be putting their all into this, and they might even have a special appearance or two. Mick Foley isn't officially under WWE contract, is he? I really think this will be worth watching. Let's pray they do well.

sidenote to Alienoid:

American Horror films can be fine art. Sure there are tons of shitty ones, but that's because it's such a hard art. It's a lot harder to scare somebody on film these days than it is to make them laugh, cry or get on the edge of their seat. IMO, it's the hardest genre to succeed in, which makes it a skillful art.

and the guys listed on the YouTube announcement were

ROH World Champ Takeshi Morishima
Jay Briscoe
Mark Briscoe
"American Dragon" Bryan Danielson
Nigel McGuinness
Roderick Strong
Davey Richards
Rocky Romero
Delirious
Erick Stevens
BJ Whitmer
Claudio Castagnoli


Oh yeah, Dragon will be there on 5/12. Final Countdown begins.

I love you.

I agree completely, I'd bet ROH has thought this through. Not my house, or anything, but I don't think this is destined for failure.

I'm intrigued about the music. This is what I was hoping WSX would do. Real music in wrestling costs money, but who knows, some bands might actually like the exposure of reaching a hardcore audience like ROH? And come on, who would not mark out to Claudio Castagnoli coming out to Sledgehammer, and Bryan Danielson to The Final Countdown? Music in wrestling is often underappreciated, but I think it could be a great way for ROH to just connect with audiences, and rise their shows a little bit more.

I mean, some bands might not worry too much about their music being associated by a guy who goes out and plies his craft with skill and dedication, as opposed to them coming out and having sex with a dummy as they would in the WWE.

I think ROH stands to be more the most accepted wrestling promotion in the world by the media. ROH is art, and it makes the WWE look like finger-painting a lot of the time. I'm not sure how far the music will set them back, but I really think this is a good move.

I don't think they should go too over the top with the production values, though. Lighting would probably be it. Maybe a stage. Definitely not videos or anything like that. Production values should be cleaner, but I don't think they should go too much grander.

Oh, I definitely agree. "American" was probably the wrong term to use. I was more thinking of "Hollywood" and movies like Pulse, The Grudge, etc. The ones where something has to jump out predictably, or the guy has to be insane and have been behind it himself. Oh, and it must has a creepy little kid.

No doubt horror can be art, just Hollywood loves to pump it full of cliches. Vince (McM) and Vince (R) couldn't deliver a taped PPV to save their lives, because someone would need to get hit with a guitar, or lose their hair, and there would need to be some shock there.

ROH (like good films, including good horror movies, which do exist), is more about the how, the why, and less about the what. Definitely less ADD associated with their booking.

So yeah, my apologies for using that analogy, I didn't make it clear enough what I meant. I definitely enjoy my good horror. It's just good horror is becoming harder and harder to find these days. :(

The only problem I can see with having taped PPVs, are title changes. I guess the die-hards would see them, and it gives us an extra reason to watch the shows, but they should definitely have the Champion (who would have won held their Championship for around a month before the PPVs airs) to maybe even give a more recent interview to talk about the match, the show, etc. Just so it doesn't feel "dated", and feels more "deliberate".

But yeah, I think Ring of Honor can survive being taped.

If you think WWE are not fully aware of ROH and everything they do then you need a reality check.

Just sayin'

*deep breath*

STRAAAAAAAAAAAW

MAAAAAAAAAAAAAN

The following is the craziest thing I have ever suggested:

Like, seriously, I think the only reason I am suggesting this is because of how crazy it is.

What if Hulk Hogan is funding ROH, just so he can stick it to Vince. Why ROH? Fuck's me, that's why it's so crazy, but what if Gabe saved Hogan's cat or something from a fire, and then did the same thing for his dog the next week, and Hogan was like "Oh, brother. You've truly been there for me, brother. If there's something you ever need, brother, even if it's Brooke's vagina, brother, just call me, brother."

So Hogan hates Vince now, and Gabe calls up Hulk: "Hey man, remember me, I saved your pets...anyway, man, I was wondering, I've got this little wrestling promotion, it's not your kind of scene, these guys roll around and fly well,"
"Thank God, brother. I'm too old to do you that kind of favour brother,"
"Nah, man. I was just wondering if you'd give me some cash, and instead of asking you to wrestle, because we all know how painful that is, you just look like God by providing wrestling with an alternative to Vince's shit?"
"God? Brother, I'm there. You'll like build a statue for me and everything? Brother, this is amazing, I'd love to stick it to Vince."

And anyway, at Respect is Earned, Hogan comes out, and he cuts a promo that goes like this:

"Holy crap, man! These guys are way too fast for me, brother! Back in my day, everyone was a lot bigger, but I wouldn't want to pick a fight with any of these talented dudes. Hulkamania can never be killed, brother, but if there's a place where it can die a humbled death, it is in Ring of Honor, dude! I walked in here Hulk Hogan, and I walk out Terry Bollea."

I don't know what Hogan would get out of it, other than Vince probably having a heart attack, but maybe Gabe could like promise to get Brooke's career going, by insisting to the IWC that she really isn't that bad? Or Gabe could promise Hogan like some kind of way to constantly be remembered, maybe a statue on the PPV set, or something?

It'd be crazy, but Hogan represents "sport entertainment" as much as anyone. For him to put over the "art" of professional wrestling would be huge. He might even be crazy enough to think that it'd make him a God to WWE fans, and to ROH fans, hence a God to everyone. Although, we all know Hogan would rather spend his nights thinking of ways he could Leg Drop the entire company to "put it over".

I dunno, just a crazy, crazy idea I had. I think Gabe's planning something. Not quite that crazy, but I don't think he's going out to bat empty handed.

The following is the craziest thing I have ever suggested:

Like, seriously, I think the only reason I am suggesting this is because of how crazy it is.

What if Hulk Hogan is funding ROH, just so he can stick it to Vince. Why ROH? Fuck's me, that's why it's so crazy, but what if Gabe saved Hogan's cat or something from a fire, and then did the same thing for his dog the next week, and Hogan was like "Oh, brother. You've truly been there for me, brother. If there's something you ever need, brother, even if it's Brooke's vagina, brother, just call me, brother."

So Hogan hates Vince now, and Gabe calls up Hulk: "Hey man, remember me, I saved your pets...anyway, man, I was wondering, I've got this little wrestling promotion, it's not your kind of scene, these guys roll around and fly well,"
"Thank God, brother. I'm too old to do you that kind of favour brother,"
"Nah, man. I was just wondering if you'd give me some cash, and instead of asking you to wrestle, because we all know how painful that is, you just look like God by providing wrestling with an alternative to Vince's shit?"
"God? Brother, I'm there. You'll like build a statue for me and everything? Brother, this is amazing, I'd love to stick it to Vince."

And anyway, at Respect is Earned, Hogan comes out, and he cuts a promo that goes like this:

"Holy crap, man! These guys are way too fast for me, brother! Back in my day, everyone was a lot bigger, but I wouldn't want to pick a fight with any of these talented dudes. Hulkamania can never be killed, brother, but if there's a place where it can die a humbled death, it is in Ring of Honor, dude! I walked in here Hulk Hogan, and I walk out Terry Bollea."

I don't know what Hogan would get out of it, other than Vince probably having a heart attack, but maybe Gabe could like promise to get Brooke's career going, by insisting to the IWC that she really isn't that bad? Or Gabe could promise Hogan like some kind of way to constantly be remembered, maybe a statue on the PPV set, or something?

It'd be crazy, but Hogan represents "sport entertainment" as much as anyone. For him to put over the "art" of professional wrestling would be huge. He might even be crazy enough to think that it'd make him a God to WWE fans, and to ROH fans, hence a God to everyone. Although, we all know Hogan would rather spend his nights thinking of ways he could Leg Drop the entire company to "put it over".

I dunno, just a crazy, crazy idea I had. I think Gabe's planning something. Not quite that crazy, but I don't think he's going out to bat empty handed.

I think you have completely lost your mind.

LMAO at the notion that the IWC is the key force working against Brooke Hogan succeeding as a singer

rofl

Im not gonna worry about ROH's finances, fuck it, im a fan I don't care. This is good because I will get 6 ppv's from ROH, bottom line, thats a good thing.

WWE's PPV buyrates are dwindling, TNA is barely making a profit from PPVs, so yeah, I think RoH dumping a ton of money into getting their shows released on PPV is a great idea. They go under faster and I can stop listening to people talk about them as if they were anything more than a indy who features a specific style of wrestling.

I'm not trying to come in here and start up more shit (which let's be honest, I do quite a bit) I'm just coming in here to give my official opinion as a wrestling fan. It's a terrible move for a company who can't support a PPV fanbase to attempt to put on PPVs. And it's not like when TNA was doing weekly ones (which even there they lost a TON of money), this is 6 big PPV events a year. How on earth are they going to get the word out on the street to buy them? They don't have big name stars to attract fans...and don't you even dare say Danielson is a star, in America, he's lower on the food chain than Shark Boy...and they can't afford a commercial bombardment of TNA or WWE shows. The only people interested in this are people who are already RoH fans, and honestly, even those are starting to die out. Terrible business move. IMO.

Eh, I'm not so sure I'd call it that. It's 6 events that they're still going to put onto DVD, still make money from the gate (I would assume - they'd be insane not to put them in their biggest drawing markets, which is why the first is in NYC) and DVD sales, and then there is this on top. From what I understand (and this is still breaking news pretty much, so details are scarce) there isn't going to be a huge outlay on making these shows any different from normal, save some production stuff which is supposedly minor. I don't know how much they're looking to make, or if this is simply a way to get their name out there so they are not such a niche promotion anymore.

Bottom line however if this is to be worth anything they have to spend on advertising. How much they can spend versus how much the rewards they receive actually work out to will determine whether this is a good idea.

Another thing people have to remember.

This is only 6 ppvs.

People like to rant about how Gabe is a smart businessman, how his business model works, etc.

If these ppvs do more harm than good, they can just not do them anymore. ROH has it's niche, but stepping out of it for a bit won't kill them. If nothing else, I'm sure these ppvs will attract more fans, so even if they don't break even on the ppvs themselves, when they return to their niche, they'll have more fans, and more income then before.

Yea but you see, like anything else wrestling promotions seek to move forward. Moving backwards, even if the right choice, seems weak. If ECW settled once they got PPV they would have been fine. But it didn't stop there, in order to stay afloat they had to keep pushing, and Heyman went and took a tv deal, and pushed the promotion into a fight it was doomed to lose.

Or, like TNA they could up the promotion to weekly or monthly PPVs, then from there they'd have the goal of getting tv. Once one goal is achieved another one is set. Either way, by tackling PPV it shows they're not content and want to grow, which is perfectly normal, but it brings them closer and closer to being seen as compettition or getting all their talent exposure to be lifted off of them, which is bad.

You're acting as if there is some external force doing the pushing, it was Heyman. And Heyman doesn't run this company.

EXACTLY. Fuck, by the PPV and help them grow. Or don't. Either way we are the only fans in the world who would bitch about having more of the product.

Them doing PPV isn't going to help them grow. They won't sell enough to grow and will inevitably lose money and will result in running LESS shows.

I take it you're putting together those DVD sales stats as I type this Rob

Us buying a PPV will help them grow sorry (which if your read is what I was trying to say.) They will only run less show if your pessimistic out look holds true. Face it, there are no facts. If you want to assume that this is going to end up negative, go ahead. Be gloomy. If you want to assume that this has a chance of being profitable, do that.

At the end of the day, we can only wait and see. What I know is I'm GOING to buy this PPV. And in the process help them, the same way my purchasing their DVDs helps them. I will continue to do this until they are no longer in existence or they no longer entertain me.

The rest is all speculation.

You've lost me.

Okay that's one PPV buy from you. How many more do you think they are gonna do?

No facts? Someone is lying to themselves big time.

LOL, wow. You think because I don't agree with you I'm on the otherside of the fence. You're a bright one.

I've been pretty nuetral. Maybe they get them, maybe they don't. But it's IDIOTIC to sit here proclaim failure when it could just as easily go the other way.

And yeah, no facts. You don't know how much this PPV is going to cost them or the consumer, and with out those two numbers, you don't know shit except for what you assume.

Keep pretending though, people are buynig into it.

Personally I just hope they break even and keep me watching RoH on PPV for years to come.

How exactly can it "easily go the other way"? I'm waiting for someone to prove me wrong.

TNA has 100 times the resources ROH does plus a far more over roster to the average fan and they don't make money on PPV. Never have and at the rate they are going, never will. How is ROH possibly gonna do better than them? They run live shows and have an average of about 35,000 people buying their PPV's. Gabe should be spunking his pants if 10,000 people buy a ROH PPV and that's not happening.

ROH lose money running house shows. They only make anything on DVD sales.

How do you know that I don't know what running PPV costs either?

I hope they do too. I'm just being realistic.

Prove you wrong? I haven't been put in a position that I need to prove anything. I'll wait to prove you wrong once you prove something.

If you compare TNA to when it went on PPV to RoH at this moment there's a noticable difference. When TNA jumped into PPV they had little to no exposure. No one had heard of them. RoH on the other hand has a strong and loyal fan base and a name that a lot of people are interested in, yet have no means of seeing it.

PPV is their answer.

Your mistake is thinking they actually need TNAs numbers. A lower production cost than TNA, crossed with lower paid talent than their competition, added to (me assuming here,) them charging more for tickets, food at the arena, DVD price, etc., could very well equal them not only not needing to make as much as TNA on the event itself but coming closer to equaling their increased cost to produced the show.

Lets keep in mind that they don't need to charge as much for the Pay per View as TNA/WWE as well. All contributing factors that can get them buys. While on the subject of viewers, as noted earlier, a large number of the IWC itself does want to see RoH. Every time I see RoH brought on boards I see many people wishing they could see some and for a group of those people this will be their answer. Another thing to consider is that wrestling is not in the companies title, so they might sucker in a group of people thinking this is Boxing/MMA. ( :D ) And no I'm not kidding.

I'm unaware that they were losing money putting on shows and would LOVE to see some evidence of this, as none has been presented to me, and sorry, Rob's word is not law. But that doesn't mean I don't want to know whats up, so hook me up if you could.

As far as you having the numbers, Rob I've watched you post for forever, if you had info when I said you didn't have shit, you would have threw it in my face and whiped your cock out. So if I didn't know before, I think I know for a fact now.

SO I guess I should be asking you, how do you know they cant break even?

Truth is, neither of us know, we're just specualting. It's all bullshit.

What we should be doing is waiting for some numbers...

Bump this thread in 6 months and we'll see.

Deal.

Judges vote: Rob pwned BTY.

God I HATE having to say Rob is right. Someone find me some Kliq shit to talk about...

RoH could sign Waltmen, after all of his succes in WSX after all.

Throw HALL in on the deal as well, and you have one of the strongest promotions in the World. :yes:

Just to elborate, I was never saying that I think RoH is destined for sucess, it's just seems insane to think that they are doomed.

Credible is free...

Well do you, or are you just pulling that playground bullshit?
And even though I think this may fail, who the fuck are you to insist upon it as though its pure fact? I know you "know your facts", but you don't know the future, and you need to relax on BTY for having a little optimism. Even if you do have reasons to believe it will fall flat on it's face, that still doesn't neccesarilly mean it will. He's right when he responds to you saying "prove me wrong" with "you haven't proved anything right". What does he have to prove wrong, your (educated) prediction?

The world will end on July 19th, prove me wrong. I respect you man, and I even agree with you, but I just can't believe you're bullying him around for disagreeing in opinion about the fate of something that has yet to be determined, as if you were the Nostradamus of Wrestling.
And even if you are and expert, and even if you do "know about running PPVs", how does that still dictate the future?
Even the experts scoffed at Bischoff for doing 12 ppvs and tackling Monday nights, and even the experts said PPV wrestling like Wrestlemania would never work. You don't know shit for sure, even though perhaps you personally have good reason to believe.

Rob's right so often that it seems worth trusting him, and assuming that he does know, instead of pulling that "playground shit."

Seriously, he is the ONE guy on here with a near immaculate track record. While he's not right 100% of the time, it'spretty clear he knows his shit.

Dave Meltzer tries that same shit.

Trust his gut and then acts like he has inside knowledge. It's lame. If you can prove RoH isn't making money at the gate, if you can prove that their DVD sales are dropping, then get on that.

What is there to hide?

I think the majority of people here are ready to believe the truth, but you'd be hard pressed to find someone dumb enough to play along just "because Rob said it."

Especialy when you consider this guy has almost moved on from wrestling and is focusing the majority of his energy into MMA (something he somehow always knows the inner workings about [makes you wonder there too.])

Sounds like Meltzer: says his speculation as fact and then waits for it to come true.

And if it doesn't then enter the bullshit excuses.*

Is asking for facts and/or evidence too much? How about a sorce?





















The last part only applies to Dave Meltzer.

But I will concede that he has a fantastic batting average.

With a batting average like his, it's hard to say he's going by his gut. Especially when, as you say, he's all but removed himself from wrestling.

Actually you know what I think this a good idea. Right now I can tell you I am going to order this PPV. I'm the defination of a casual ROH fan.

Ordering a PPV to is mch less of hassle then buying a DVD off their website to. Again I don't think this is a bad move.

I feel the same. I am VERY excited, and I can tell you now, I'll spend a lot of time hyping this to people.

Fair enough. I said I agree with him and I damn sure respect him. But he's insisting that he's right until proven wrong and that he knows for certain what will happen. BTY can fight his own battles but it struck me as silly to play the "how do you know I don't know ___" card. Either tell us you know or stop the kindergaten mindfuck charade is all.
If he does, I'd be interested to know his knowledge and enlightenment of the inside of the PPV business, as well as how he knows other than citing Wikipedia.

I've never bought an ROH dvd or ticket, and I'll be ordering at least their first ppv. There's a lot more hardcore wrestling fans with a casual approach to something like ROH. The ROH marks will buy the dvds and see the PPV, save some of the cheapskates I suppose. Going taped, dumb, but who knows how set in stone that is or if it will keep up.

But I'd be willing to be there's plenty of wrestling fans like me and Legend who'd love to order the PPV in the comfort of their home, but can't be damned to order a dvd online or go track one down at stores, if they even are sold there which I don't think they are. It's all about access. If your product is accessible to more people, it will reach a wider audience, and the chances are the fans willing to go to the lengths they do to follow ROH will still be there.

Of course, it's not gonna garner a huge audience or boom, but it certainly will reach more eyes, and I'm not sure what the cost/profit situation with the PPV will be. Like Rob said, it may backfire but what the hell, they can make their own bed. I'll buy, but I agree it's a risk to push like ECW did.

I'll post it again

I would like to think you haven't pulled this out of your ass, but at this point you're not really leaving much of an alternative.