Bret Hart
 

Just wondering why so many people on here hate Bret Hart so much.

In the early to mid 90's, he was the best wrestler in the world. I just never feel he quite got the run he deserved. He really should have been the number one guy from 1992 until at least 1997. However, they put him in a bunch of midcard feuds:

Jerry Lawler - 1993
Bob Backlund - 1994-'95
Issac Yankem/Jerry Lawler - '95
Hakushi - '95

I guess the issue I have is that Hart was at his peak during these years, but was left off the main event (as well as being somewhat buried with him losing to Backlund who then lost to nash so easily.)

Right, so the point I'm getting at, I think Bret went through alot of crap in his career for someone of his calibre.

and my question is, why do ppl on here seem to dislike bret so much?

Bret cut the rope

He's a hypocritical bitcher.

Because he's a pussy ass bitch who did little more than proclaim himself the best, bitch and cry if he lost, and put on matches that made Lance Storm look like a spot monkey. He was boring, bland, over rated, and the only reason he was Champ was so Vince could throw a non-Steroid abusing person up front. People loved him because people were able to all in love with Hogan by the WWE telling you to like them long enough, and it worked on him. He did nothing to deserve his placement amoung the greats, he was part of the Hart Foundations who only became legendary AFTER Bret won the World Title, BECAUSE he didn't use steroids. His entire career has been kind of a falling ass backwards to success. I guess since Canadians have so many things upside down, for someone like Bret, failing upwards was natural.

No comment.

In my opinion, Bret Hart is highly overrated. While I do indeed respect the fact that he never hurt anyone in the ring and I am actaully angry about how he got kicked in the head and put out of wrestling forever by Goldberg, Bret honestly didn't deserve that (especially with his history of working safe with everyone else).

That aside, he is still a whiny cry baby bitch behind the scenes. And in ring rather dry and boring and bland. His matches bored me except when he was in the ring with someone like Micheals who could carry him from a 4 star match to a 5 star match. Bret was a constant 4 star preformer. Which isn't bad, he just isn't the 5 star guy everyone makes him out to be. (Which is also the reason I don't like Beniot, he is another 4 star preformer that needs someone to carry him to 5 stars). Putting on a wrestling clinic is not what 5 star matches are made of, and putting on the exact same wrestling clinic every time is barely what a 4 star match is made of.

A guy like Micheals, Flair, and Jericho are a 5 star worker. And it is very hard to explain why, they just are, they just know how to make a match look awesome.

I would also point out that Bret had his job largely because of his daddy in the first place. Yes, he was a great wrestler and yes, he deserved his spot in the WWF, but if I recall correctly, when Vince bought up Stu Hart's promotion, it was with a promise to take care of "his boys," aka Bret, Jim Neidhart, and Davey Boy. It's not outside of possibility that he might have been released early on because of his abysmal mic skills if not for that little bit of help.

Flair is extremely over-rated, and I'd hardly call him a 5 star worker, and if ever was once apoun a time he was, it hasnt been in over 15 years.

:mad: I meant in his prime, people still talk about a lot of Ric Flair's matchs. Today Flair is well past his prime, but can still pull a decent match out of his ass when he needs too.

Oh well yes in his Prime Flair was really good

At least Flair isn't one of those old wrestlers who refuse to put over younger talent.

What is your point chrisat928? Bret Hart put over talent. No one is arguing that.

I like Bret, I liked everything he was about, his confidence, fairness, and wrestling ability (this is just his on screen character). Off screen I don't really care if he bitches or not because I don't pay to deal with that shit nor does anyone else unless you buy the Observer. I paid to watch him wrestle and entertain and he always, every match did that. He hit the hardest, wrestled the longest, and made me believe that it was real.

Other thing that made Bret cool

His entrance music
he gave his glasses to kids (wish I woulda got a pair)
He made pink cool
The sharpshooter was the shit, nobody has EVER done it better
He punched McMahon in the face, hard.
Thats about it.

I love Bret Hart. Fuck you guys.

My favorite Bret feuds

Dave Boy
King
Diesel
Shawn
Owen
Undertaker

You forgot Mr. Perfect.

Bret v. Owen was so fucking awesome to me. I guess it just hit me at the right age, and the idea of two brothers FIGHTING each other...it was just wild to me. Also, their opener at Wrestlemania X just might be my favorite match ever.

Yeah your right I did. My favorite feud is probably with Davey Boy around December 1995. Fucking amazing match at that months IYH

This thread isn't asking why you like, it is asking why you hate him. I answered why I hate him. Maybe if he was worth a damn, like everyone thinks he is, WCW would have done something with him.

lol you know that's completely wrong.

Bret Hart made wrestling seem real and fun at the same time for many people with his style. Not everyone likes the flashy over the top wrestlers like Shawn Michaels and Ric Flair, for example, who sometimes made the match seem more cartoonish.

Some of us prefered a match being serious and as realistic as it could be which is what Bret Hart always delivered. Of course wrestling isn't about that anymore, not even a single bit so it sucks nowadays.

I just don't like all the whining he has done. Other than that I really liked him. I've liked a lot more wrestlers' in ring work than Bret's, but Bret was still a solid wrestler who got the best out of his oponents.

From what I remember a lot of the greats had their best matches with Bret.

what he said...:y:

Thats a good way of describing his legacy.

That's mostly cuz Hart was a company man, doing best for the fed...trying to make the midcard look better by giving those guys a rub, just being in the ring with the best thing going. He had no problem helping younger guys, guys that were just going nowhere until he decided they deserved a shot...Bret just knew what he was on about. He called the rock being a next big time great, and he helped the rock tremendously, unlike a certain other main eventer who tried to hurt his career...Bret hand chose Austin to be his next rival and look where that got things....

Bret was just the best possible man to make anyone and everyone look fucking good. Nobody could do what Bret did, and do it willingly at the same time.

Most of the people who dislike him are those that were too young to have even gotten what I just wrote down here. It's usually the younguns that dislike Bret, as he doesnt like their boy toy.

Vince said wcw wouldnt know what to do with a guy like Bret...and the reason why was cuz the guys in charge were fucking morons.

Too bad you dont believe what you're typing.

Did someone here just say Chris Jericho was a better worker than Bret Hart?

I said Jericho constanly has 5 star matches as compared to 4 star Bert. It isn't always about being techincally sound, it is also about having charisma.

Are you shitting me? Bret was an incredible scientific wrestler. He made what he did believable, his moves were always crisp, and when he applied the sharpshooter, you "knew" the match had to be over. I'll always be a Hart mark. Michaels can go suck a fat cock, because he's not at great as eve3ryone makes him out to be. Same old shit, all the time.

...But, at least he's better than Cena.

Yeah, well when Micheals applied that sharpshooter, the ref "knew" the match had to be over, and that is all that really matters.

BDC is the king.

Jericho isnt even in the top 5 list for Canadian wrestlers, let alone being better than Bret. Jericho is actually kinda overrated among many.

He doesnt wrestle nearly as good as the top guys, like Hart or Benoit, and his promos arent convincing in that he cant be serious at all, and when he tried to be, it just didnt come off good.

Every word, the God's Honest Truth.

I didn't say it, but I back it 110%.

ditto.

Bret VS Owen will probably live with me as the best feud I've ever seen. Bret was awesome in it, but Owen was incredible IMO. I remember i stopped watching in 1996 (when I knew it was fake but didn't really understand wrestling) and when I watched wrestling in shadows or whatever it was called, I was astonished to see Owen and Bret were actually friendly towards one-another. That feud just seemed so real to me then that i couldn't believe it had been acted

i must agree. I really like jericho, but to put him up there with being as good a wrestler as Bret Hart is a bit of a stretch IMO

Simply put, Chris Jericho and Shawn Michaels are the 2 greatest wrestlers of all time. Chris Jericho and Shawn Michaels both "have it all". They can wrestle any style, have natural charisma, and can do any style of promo. Zen, it is ignorant to say Jericho can't be serious. He just was never in a long term role to be serious. I will never forget when Jericho was Undisputed Champion and he was facing the Rock and Rock was just talking about how he was gonna beat Jericho in 5 minutes and then go on to WrestleMania and then Jericho just came out of nowhere with "I'M NOT A JOKE DAMN IT!" and the camera zoomed in on his face and you saw his passion, his fire, his love of the business. He had serious promos during his fued with Michaels that really were awesome. Jericho has a knack for comedic timing which is usually thrown into everything he does but that is the Chris Jericho character.

On topic, Bret was a awesome technical wrestler and a good brawler but that was about it. If anybody is overrated it is Bret Hart. He could wrestle anybody and make them look good, but people need to remember that its easy to be good, its hard to be great. Bret Hart was never great in my eyes. He was damn good, but he wasn't fucking great.

Oh Christ, not another one.

What 5 star matches has Jericho had? Personally I can only think of 3 that would come close - Benoit at the Rumble, Rock when he won the WCW title and the tag match where Triple H tore his quad (and I'd give that one 5 stars).

Bret Hart is in at least 5 of the top 20 WWE matches of all time.

It takes 2 to make a "5-Star" match. Nobody is carried in a 5* match.

Jericho worked with a better standard of worker than Hart did and hasn't had as many great matches.

Maybe your standards are too high or your obsession with Bret Hart being the best blinds you.

For every Yokozuna, Bret got to face a Shawn Michaels. For every Chris Benoit, Jericho got to a Chyna.

Five Star Chris Jericho Matches

ECW Heat Wave 1996
Chris Jericho vs. Shane Douglas vs. Pitbull #2 vs. Too Cold Scorpio
~A complete hidden gem. Half of the people had the match of their career in this match, launched Jericho into the American market, and probably one of ECW's top 5 matches ever put on. This one is totally debatable, and if you don't accept it, fine. But for me, this was absolutely a Five Star Match.

WCW SuperBrawl 1998
Chris Jericho vs. Juvi Guerrera
~Again, just a fantastic match. This was really the first time I realized that WCW's under card was an incredible show unto itself. Again, this one may not make a lot of people's 5 Star list, but it absolutely does for me. A great moment for the under card workers who inally began to shine through a stand alone stars.

WWE WrestleMania 2000
Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle
~The Ladder Match in that evening totally stole the "Bang Bang Boom!" feel of WrestleMania, but this had the incredible "Oh my god, I witnessed a legendary WrestleMania match" feeling to it. It is the genesis of three of the greatest WWE legacies that there have ever been.

WWE Judgment Day 2000
Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit
~Classic submission match. One of the best in my opinion. Had a great feel, and truly was the match that brought back the feel of importance to the Intercontinental Championship that had been missing since Austin's departure to World Title status.

WWE Royal Rumble 2001
Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit
~Best Ladder Match Ever. That's my personal opinion and a fucking incredible classic match. Unquestionably a Five Star.

WWE King of the Ring 2001
Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit vs. Steve Austin
~Go watch this match. It's a stand alone match of sheer amazing quality, you factor in the Benoit injury and it really has a TON of heart. I really can't say anything about this match other than it is just simply incredible. Go watch it now.

WWE No Mercy 2001
Chris Jericho vs. The Rock
~AWESOME. Five Stars hands down. The winning a World Title for Jericho could not have been a more special moment for me as a fan. I know Benoit's Mania win is very highly regarded as an awesome feel, but on a personal level, this one trumps that. His reign and eventually uneventful dropping of the title left a lot to be desired, but this match and moment was truly something special.

WWE Vengeance 2001
Chris Jericho vs. Steve Austin
~If ever there was a moment when the event and happenings coupled with symbolism was just a moment on to itself, it was this one. Chris Jericho was the newly crowned <s>WCW</s>World Champion and Steve Austin was the WWF Champion. It was the foundation of the original WCW during the late 90's and the heart and soul of WWF during that period, going head to head, and while it was focused on during the match, the undertone screamed legacy vs. legacy. The match itself was totally sold, and it had a match to truly officially be the Undisputed World Champion (WCW was bought out, ECW was dead, and the NWA Belt was floating around Japan and Europe). This was the match for American fans to have the one guy, no questions asked, who was the Champion of the World...and Jericho came out on top. One of the best nights as it culminated in both KayFabe and reality the unification. Total Five Star classic if only for the status of the match.

WWE Judgment Day 2002
Chris Jericho vs. Triple H
~Everything a Hell in the Cell match should be. Incredible workers, flawlessly executed gimmick match, just incredible. Five Star.

WWE Survivor Series 2002
Chris Jericho vs. Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Booker T vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Kane
~The only non-laughable Elimination Chamber match. So awesome, I can drool over it. Five Star.

WWE WrestleMania XIX
Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels
~No doubt in my mind this should be on everyone's Five Star matches. Complete match of the night. Complete WrestleMania classic amoung classics.

WWE WrestleMania XX
Chris Jericho vs. Christian
~Quite killer of the night. The Triple Threat was the best match of that entire year, but this match was such a perfect love triangle angle climax. And the match itself may be Christian's best non-gimmick match of all time...infact I would probably rank it his best match ever. Just awesome, awesome, awesome. And showed Jericho once again that Jericho didn't need the Main Event to be a legendary classic.

WrestleMania 21
Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit vs. Edge vs. Shelton vs. Christian vs. Kane
~The last great gimmick match if you ask me. This is the last time WWE or TNA has had a gimmick match where it was just so "Oh My God" good that it becomes a last memory for life. Total Five Star!

Those were just off the top of my head for Five Star matches Jericho has had. He had such a legacy of taking the undercard and tearing the house down in matches. I almost don't mind how little time Jericho spent in the World Title picture, because he lit the midcard on fucking fire for years. Match for match, I think he's the best Canadian wrestler ever.

:y:

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You have no idea what a 5 star match if you think all those were 5 star. Most of them weren't even the best matches on that show.

You're right rob, a lot of those matches aren't a learning video of how to put on a technical classic match, and some of them even had gimmicks. OooOooOoo, obviously I've fucking clueless about what makes good wrestling, because I happen to enjoy something that isn't mat wrestling for a half hour. :roll:

I can't talk to you people anymore.

Jericho had far better talent to work with. They both worked their fair share of world class opponents but the average talent Jericho worked were FAR better than what Hart had.

As for the Chyna comment, Bret had to wrestle Will Sasso.

Oooooooh another sarcastic wrestling fan.

I'm just going to finish with this and then call it a night...

Chris Jericho always had great matches. You never knew what was going to come next. He had that constant state of unpredictability that kept them all fresh an exciting. Bret Hart had such a tightly worked match that you saw everything that was coming from a mile away...expect Montreal...but...well...you know.:D

damm skippy !!!

Oh please, Jericho is better by miles than Benoit. Who ARE the top five Canadian wrestlers, then, Canada boy?

One person can singlehandedly make an otherwise 4-star into a 5-star whether his opponent is helping or not.

And one person can carry his opponent to a 4 star match and Michaels, Hart and Benoit have proven this time and time again.

Jesus Christ, I'm amazed at how many people will give almost any match 5 stars.

Which Brings us to tonight's word:

Retarded musical chairs.

Jericho is the musical chairs champion of the world, bitch.

Yeah, and Jericho has proven that when faced with a shitty opponent, he cant carry said shitty opponent to top quality matches...whereas Hart could work with anyone and make them look good.

Overall, it isnt even close, Jericho is leagues behind the Hitman.

You had out those elite 5 stars pretty non chalantly then.

You should see his list of Five Star Kevin Nash matches. It's basically the entire list.

The One reminds me of JR in that way, whenever he tries to set up a classic match when there is probably no chance of any happening...

"My god King, this has the makings of an all time classic!!!"....after the two wrestlers have only just started locking up.

it amazes me how people say how Bret whined etc while they conveniently forget how Michaels almost robbed us of the Rock and Steve Austin.It was Bret Hart who stood up for them.Bret hart doesnt whine, he speaks fact..its sad how some of you are so ignorant

Bret whined for the cameras..his act must have been pretty damn good considering he has everyone bringing that shit up.

HBK whined better than most in reality...I dont wanna do this, I dont wanna do that, I wont drop the title to him now, no, make it ever!...I dont wanna lose clean, I just wanna forfeit them...please, let me forfeit!!!

And forfeit he did. When it comes to all that shit, he's the best there ever will be.

Again, this thread askes why do we hate Bret Hart, not why do we like him or why do we like Shawn Micheals.

I move that this topic has been exhausted and we have debated every angle. Lets just leave it that some people here are for the Kliq and others are for the Harts and family. And leave it at that for now. It is obvious we all value different things in different preformers, so lets just leave it at that. I'm getting tired of saying the same things over and over, and hearing the same things over and over.

Bret Hart is the best wrestler of all-time. I don't understand how Kliq fans can call him a whiner or a bitch. Shawn Michaels was the biggest bitch of them all.

The only wrestlers that I've seen that are on his level in the ring are Ric Flair, Ricky Steamboat, Shawn Michaels, Chris Benoit or Kurt Angle.

Personally, I'd say Jericho is pretty close to that level, but he hasn't put on as many 5 star classics as those listed above. He's one of the most entertaining wrestlers ever though, no doubt, and his combination of in-ring ability and charisma makes him one of the best ever, in my opinion. In-ring he's a shade beneath the absolute elite, however.

Comparing the talent pool Bret Hart had to work with and the talent pool Chris Jericho had to work with is absurd. Jericho worked in ECW when they had some of the best wrestlers in the world. The talent level WCW had in the late 1990s was ridiculous. In the WWF he had great talent to work with as well, beginning with the Radicals coming over and through invasion and foward. Who the hell did Bret Hart have to work with? The New-Generation WWF roster, in terms of in-ring ability was atrocious, save for a few wrestlers.

Again, this is asking why do the kliq fans hate Bret Hart. Quit arguing the same points about Jericho. Can we just close this thread now?

Actually, I'd take every single one of those matches of ANY I have seen come out of RoH or Japan. ANY of them. And RoH and Japan are the homeground for the IWC's 5 Star Classics. I don't hand out Five Star Matches freely, I just happen to think that Chris Jericho is probably in the top 5 wrestlers of all time to have a Five Star Match. And to show you I seriously don't hand them out freely, officially; Kevin Nash, JBL, Sean Waltman, and Billy Gunn have never had a single Five Star Match. I don't just throw them all over the place, it just happens that for nearly 2 years Jericho was probably the best performer in the world for putting on Five Star matches. The only people in his league are Ric Flair, Shawn Michaels, Steve Austin and possibly Roddy Piper. Triple H has had a few, but no where near how many Jericho has had. Hall has had a couple. Chris Jericho is just quite simply put one of the best ingredients for making a Five Star Match in history. He can carry them using a multitude of characters, styles and positions on the card. Chris Jericho is the best thing to ever come from Canada. (...fallowed by Piper)

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Case in point: MVP

I just don't like how Bret took all that time bitching about how he was wronged when the TV time could've been used putting over these 5 star performers that you're all mentioning.

ie: Savage ( probably more pre-WCW, but Bret was avidly in the spotlight then too), Jericho, Benoit

Jericho is just as overrated as Bret has ever been, even more so in the time since his sabbatical.

I'm not saying he isn't VERY good, or that he is incapable of these "five star matches" everyone is talking about, but the one thing Jericho has always been, ever since the very first time I set eyes on him in his match against Alex Wright on Nitro in 1996, is inconsistant. He has the ability, but he doesn't always parlay it in the ring, therefore he is not some infallible wrestling God as everyone makes him out to be.

As for Bret; everybody knows one of these chip-on-the-shoulder, the world is out to get me, nothing goes my way, self-pitying guys.... so Bret whines? A lot? As wrestling fans, judge him as a wrestler. Leave the judging of Bret as a person to his friends and family, those who know him.

As for his in-ring ability... Bret is so straight-laced, he is an acquired taste, and he's another inconsistant guy (as anyone who may have seen him compete on a house show card or later in WCW may attest)... he has had so many great matches, though, you have to give him credit, like him or not.

Smarks can relate to Bret because he's the only wrestler that wines as much as we do.

Pro Wrestlers are full of shit pretty much all the time. The One, and TPWW's other wrstlers just tend to take fucker up to eleven

Isn't that the same as Ric Flair also?

Well damn, I can't argue with that, now can I? :roll:

Tell me please, what makes Benoit better than Jericho. Benoit is more technically skilled, but Jericho is quite skilled in his own right. If Benoit is a technical 10, Jericho is at LEAST a 7. Jericho, however, is so much more skilled at working crowds, on the mic and off it, that it isn't even funny. If Jericho is a 10 there, Benoit is a 5 at most. Jericho got himself over on his own in WCW with very little aid, so much so that when he came to the WWF the arena went mad for him. Benoit only truly holds a crowd's interest with a noticable opponent. Jericho could turn heel, then face, then heel, then face again in the course of a single show and make it work; Benoit could turn heel right now and most people wouldn't even notice.

Ive always liked Jericho...and I do feel he has had some 5 star matches...

however, he has been inconsistent, and I always wanted more from him. There are times he seems on the verge of consistently putting on greatness, but then falls short or works a little sloppy. I do put him ahead of benoit however. Benoit is a wonderfully sound technician. He just doesnt hold my interest at all beyond that. I think he lacks any great charisma other than looking angry, he has no mic skills, and he looks like a leprechaun.

As for Hitman, I respect his ability and recognize him as one of the great performers of history. He definitely had a pattern to his style, but the way he executed his matches and that pattern is what defined him. Once he hit his groove, he had the look of someone who was going to be efficient and take you down and finish you. Some of my favorite all time matches include the Hitman: vs Piper, vs Perfect, vs HBK, etc.

That being said...I prefer to put HBK over any of them, simply because I feel he integrates all of these characteristics the best. He could consistently put on great matches, he has the look, he can mix it up between different styles, and he can also hold my interest and put on great matches against much lesser opponents, something I never found in the others.

HHH hits on all ends of the scale..hes been great at times, and just plain awful other times.

Hart had a very believable style: he would sell an injury for weeks,his punches look better than ANYONE on the roster today.,his promo's were awesome during 1997.bret made wrestling believable.

That is such crap dude, honestly. Benoit is only a 5 in your "working the crowds"? WTF, Benoit gets huge pops everytime he comes out and has been for the past 5 years.

Also, he can draw great heat, like in 2000 in his feud against the Rock. All you need to do with Benoit is package him right

If Jericho is a 10, then yeah, Benoit's a five, because Jericho's that much better than him. And it's not like it was exactly hard to get heat against the Rock back in 2000, and keep in mind that Benoit had Shane helping him.

10
Fucking
Years
Ago

Hey I'm not the one who brought up Benoit vs Rock 2000. And yeah, he's a hell of a lot better than he was then, but he's still nowhere near Jericho.

They are all wrestlers? This makes a hell of a lot of sense now. You know, since us normal folk don't know what it's like to be a ring and all. :)

Naw. The One, Destor, and a couple of others are "real" wrestlers. BDC's an accountant.

Destor's alright though.

The One's alright. You just have to take him with a grain or 5 million of salt.

They are all fine really when they aren't picking sides in fake wrestling wars like fucking 10 year old kids.

Wrestlers have always been the biggest marks though :D

It's all a work.

Everything.

Life is a work. Like in The Truman Show.

Boy, that sure explains Warrior.