Money in the Bank - pre 2005
 

Thought of something. Hypothetically, if MITB had been around in years past, who do you think would have been instead booked to win the case and recieved that push that year? Since it's been around, it seems to go to a certain kind of star on the brink of stardom but stuck in the midcard. So who in the past may have gotten this chance to springboard them. It doesn't have to mean they would have won the title with it like they always have since it's existed.

1998: The Rock
1999: Road Dogg
2000: Chris Jericho
2001: Angle
2002: Edge
2003: Booker T
2004: Orton

Start with any year you want

Really it's just who would have won the King of the Ring if it was still around.

That's a good point. MITB is the goods

I'll play along, going with the original 6 Man entrance deal

1998 - Ken Shamrock (Granted I know he won KoTR that year, but he just had the hype surround him that he was going to be a WWF/E champion around this time, just never happened)

Other Entrants - Owen Hart, Steve Blackman, The Rock, Triple H, Taka Michinoku, Marc Mero

1999 - X-Pac (I know we shit all over the guy, but around this time, he was so over, and still somewhat awesome, people shit all over the fact, that he ruined Kane for us, but I felt that, it helped this guy out, I figured at this time, that after Shamrock and Triple H, he was due for a run at the WWE championship, then he started sucking)

Other Entrants - Edge, D'Lo Brown, Billy Gunn, Road Dogg, Ken Shamrock, Val Venis

2000 - Chris Jericho - Jericho was intercontinental Champion, and ended up becoming a one night european champion at this mania, in a different twist of fate, I would of saw him taking the Money In The Bank if it was around.

Other Entrants - Kurt Angle, Edge, Jeff Hardy, X-Pac, Bubba Ray Dudley, Chyna

2001 - Chris Benoit - Benoit in 2000, after nearly taking the WWE Championship from the Rock, somewhat fell off into IC Title contention, He would rebound to win it this year, Sadly hopefully a neck injury a few years before wouldn't damage him.

Other Entrants - Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, Eddie Guerrero, Edge & Kane

2002 - Rob Van Dam - He was so hot in 2001, when he came into the WWE, and making his first wrestlemania apperance, this time winning the Money In The Bank, as opposed to the Intercontinental Championship, This would also be the first case, where the previcious winner wasn't enter into the match, due to Benoit neck injury.

Other Entrants - DDP, Edge, Booker T, Christian, Tajiri, Test

2003 - Chris Benoit - After a year missed because of action, and nearly defeated Kurt Angle for the WWE Championship just months before in a classic, Benoit redeems himself and becomes the first man to repeat as Money In The Bank, I would of had Edge winning this if he didn't get injured at No Way Out.

Other Entrants - Eddie Guerrero, Christian, The Hurricane (Fresh off his defeat of The Rock), Rob Van Dam, Jeff Hardy, Matt Hardy

2004 - Christian (Christian would of gotten the nod in my mind, He was mega over as a heel in the whole Jericho/Trish/Himself Triangle thing, I would of still had the outcome of the Jericho match happen here, with him and Jericho battling, then Trish seemingly coming to the aid of Jericho only to cost him the match)

Other Entrants - Chris Jericho, Rob Van Dam, Booker T, Rey Mysterio, John Cena

1995 - Duke "The Dumpster" Drose
1996 - Barry Windham
1997 - Fake Razor

Need I continue?

Actually, Destor is spot-on about KOTR = MITB. KOTR push was a little more subtle, but it's quite similar.

MITB > KOTR though. KOTR was kinda boring in the end.

Well, they needed something to replace the TLC matches, and the MITB gimmick is a fantastic way to keep elements of the TLC and adding a main event status stipulation with the contract.

KotR > MITB.

well what a surprise st jimmy disagrees with me. SHOCKING.

Yeah KotR way > MitB.

Yeah cause kotr had way more exciting/unusual moments than MITB.:shifty:

I'm not a spot junkie so having unusual spots isn't really that relevant to me. Tournaments are awesome just for the record. Beyond that while MitB is good mindless fun on a card you tel a better story in a match and connect with the audience in a bigger way. KotR added a hell of a lot more prestige to the winner than MitB does. The winner on MitB has to win the title before he gets his rub, which then it's the strap putting him over and not the match itself.

Way better matches in KotR as well.

The thing that bothered me with kotr is, most of the results were predictable and the matches weren't ever really that good imo.

To each their own, but I'd still argue the potential of KotR tournament is greater than that of the MitB match.

I would argue the opposite, cause with kotr you might get a great match every now and then, but with MITB you basically know what you're gonna get and that there will be something unique happining.

I dunno, that sounds like TNA logic to me.s

What a comeback. :shifty:

KotR........ Now there's something I miss.

I'd rather have MitB, but if I could have them both at different points in the yeah, I'd love it. In fact, having three chances a year to significantly elevate someone (Royal Tumble, KotR, MitB) would be pretty awesome, especially considering they're promoting people on three fucking shows. Granted, winning Money in the Bank or the Rumble usually means you're moving to Raw, but whatever.

Yeah, I think it's a great idea. It's like when there's a wrestler who you know ain't ready to carry a strap or beleiveable for a run for one, or you want to test reaction to him etc. Or push him but not quite to title level (like Kennedy, Hardy, Umanga, Big Show??) etc. KotR is perfect. Gives a great basis for some matches leading up to it on RAW and it's one less major writing job for the creative team as all they need to do is work out the tourney winner and go from there. Saves much more time than writing each week for someone.

The MITB is a better and more interesting way to push a talent. KOTR is a tournament, which was awesome, but it wasn't clicking for a few years there. It was basically it meant you were in store for great things, but in kayfabe it meant nothing. There was no reason for a wrestler to bust their ass to win a crown.

Now you have a title shot in a case that can be used at any time, and even defended like a title. It is far more interesting and has way more potential as a plot device than winning some tournament that the wrestler brags about for a month until their next program after Summerslam.

When KOTR became for a title shot at summerslam it was still inferior because it was for a title shot at a set date and time, and it still had the same downfalls Destor talks about when it comes to thrusting someone into a push. The year long case is better, and you don't HAVE to win. You can cash in and have a great match and go back to climbing up the ladder with that big rub under your belt.

I guess the KOTR matches had the potential to be better, since they were 1 on 1 matches, but they rarely were. They also didn't have much behind them or story in them between the compettitors, nor did the crowd give a flying fuck. MITB matches of course are spotfest, but the best spotfests in the industry, and a shitload of fun for the crowd, and something to do for a bunch of guys who deserve to be on the card in a high profile match at the biggest show of the year

You make some fine points, a lot of them I can't refute. But when you say KotR had no meaning in kayfabe I have to disagree. I'm not arguing it's prestigue, while I think it had plenty it's not the issue. KotR had meaning in kayfabe because it put all the guys who couldn't break through the glass ceiling in the biggest angle in the company for a month or so. And when it culminated one of those men was declared better than the pack.

After that he may get a shot at the title, he may not. But the ride continues. With MitB you're just waiting. (It's coming off like I don't lke MitB, I do, I just prefer KotR.) It's not as interesting to me. the first few times sure but it gotton bland for all ready and if it wasn't Punk getting the rub I owldn't be interested at all. With King of the ring they continue their road but now with the spot light directly on him.

Look at Steve Austin, he won the King in '96 and it was the birth of the rest of his career. After that EVERYONE was paying attention to him. But it wasn't until '98 that he actually got the belt.

Similar with HHH in '97. with the victory in KotR he proved he was above the rest. But he wasn't thrusted into a main event match up he wasn't ready for. It just gave him more exposure.

Angle almost became a mainevent the second he won KotR.

Was Kennedy ready for a world title win? hell even a match for it when he won the case? If he hadn't got injured he definatly would have one, but probably both. But was he ready for a KotR win? Yeah. More exposure is good. And if he fails to get the interestyou want him to you can just forget about him. With MitB you all most have to do somehting epic (it could be an epic fail too I guess.)

It just seems like there is less freedom with the MitB than KotR. Thant and I don't like the idea of the WWE marrying a gimick match every year at wrestle manina.

I wouldn't mind them both co-existing

I could deal with that.

I'd like a good tournament for a change. Seriously, what ever happened to a good tournament. One with some build and meaning behind it.

I'd like to see a world title tournament like deadly games. They've had plenty of chances with vacated titles in past years.

Why there wasn't a tournament at No Mercy this past year is really beyond me

Exactly what I was saying above. I think it would be logical to be honest.

WWE is gearing a better product lately, 6 months ago I just couldn't give a fuck. But now it's not so bad. i think if they looked at bringing KotR back, it would fill a nice gap between WM and SummerSlam... or if u love it enough, TGAB.

It seems to me that the Money in the Bank match has become redundent. The concept of the match is nice, and the setup is creates after the match is cool, but it is beginning to become predictible with its unpredictability, if you know what I mean. I am not saying get rid of the match altogether, but I don't think it should be a annual match at Wrestlemania. Eventually it will become like the Elimination Chamber where it just is blah after a while.

MITB is the best tradition or annual event the WWE has adopted in 15 years

Hey i just remembered they did have KOTR return in a shitty way a while back i can't remember what year, very recent, just the quarter finals and semi finals were on raw or smackdown. Anyone know what year that was? I agree btw jeritron.

Maybe have the Money in the Bank match be a traditional match at a generic pay per view, like No Mercy or something. What the WWE has done is dump a bunch of upper mid carders, including the IC and US champions apparently, into this one large match. All this does is divert the company from developing some solid feuds that would make for some solid matches at Wrestlemania.

2006 with King Booker geting crowned the winner. It was SD! only though.

NO. MITB should stay at wrestlemania.Its perfect.

Pretty much my problem with it. I was fine with it the first two years but there are a lot of guys who would have benefited better by being in some hot ass singles matches (or a fucking tag match.) Instead they're jumbled in a match that doesn't promote the individuals but the gimmick. People get hyped for the carnage, not the participants.

So you don't mind that, at the largest pay per view of the year, the IC/US/whatever title, which is supposed to be the second most important title the company has to offer, is not defended because said champion is tossed into some quick fix match?

Maybe have a rule where anyone with a title cannot enter the match or something, I don't know.

IC title hasn't been defended at mania in like 6 years...

That is the one downfall, but overall the match itsself needs to be there i feel.

I am with Destor on this as I liked MITB when it first started, but now it's just getting repetative for me. I'm not a big spotfest fan either, but I think it's good they only do it like once a year. It does make for a fun match at Mania and gets a couple mid-upper mid carders on the show in one match.

I do think that KOTR and MITB can coexist. Maybe you can have the KOTR winner fight the previous MITB winner at Summerslam (I'm making KOTR in June) to keep the contract for the title meaning something in the public eye. But that could just be a storyline one year and you wouldn't have to do it every year.

IC championship can be defended AND have the MITB. They did it last year with the US belt. Theres enough talent. It also doesn't have to be 7 or 8 men, it can be 6.
That's not a downfall of it, it's just what they've chosen to do. If that's a problem for someone they should blame WWE and not the match itself because both can coexist

Also, Money in the Bank should remain at wrestlemania and wrestlemania only. It's perfect


Also, the MITB is immensely awesome as it is, but it's got so much potential still. I mean, we've yet to see someone lose with their case, or do something unique. People cashing in unexpectedly will provide more great moments. We've yet to see someone use it that night, and yet to see someone wait all year and demand a wrestlemania title shot the year after. We've yet to see two compettitors tie by both falling with the case.
There's a lot of things to do, and a lot of great moments they can be used to accomplish which will give the match it's legacy like a royal rumble or king of the ring has had.

Have you caught on to the fact I love MITB yet?

I'd just keep KOTR seperate and for the love of god, put something at stake. I think putting something at stake makes the whole thing make more sense. A title shot at Great American Bash sounds about right. They should also restore it's credibility early if they chose to bring it back. By that I mean have someone like HHH or Batista or someone whos an established star choose to compete and then win. That way, it looks like something to obtain and means a real rub for up and coming stars when they win it, instead of just a stepping stone. The title shot the next month stipulation also prevents WWE from having the oppurtunity to waste it or chance it on someone who doesnt deserve a title shot.
Having someone like Billy Gunn or Mable win was ridiculous, because they hadn't earned a title shot yet and WWF was hoping throwing a crown on them would buy them a new star (unlike the MITB winners who seem to have earned it in advance and recieve it as a prop to make that happen)

haha jeritron you said all of what i wanted to say but couldn't find the words before. The fact that the us and ic titles havent been defended at wm isnt actually down to the mitb match itself but more like poor booking.

No, MitB is a tool for lazy booking. Instead of coming up for an interesting angle for guys like Jericho, Punk, MVP, and a few other stars on the brink of breaking through they set it on cruise control and let the gimmick do the work, it's kinda lazy.

I would rather have had Punk/Shelton and Jericho/MVP than MitB this year,

Hardly lazy booking, you could argue that kotr was a tool for lazy booking in that case.

yea, it is pretty lazy. They just pick 7 guys and throw them into one match. Pretty straight foward and simple. KOTR was planned out a month or two in advance with what qualifying matches they wanted, where they needed to put each match, how to book each finish etc.... Back in the 90's, it was even longer then the most recent one.

Also, with MITB, there are 5 or 6 losers in the match. The winner may get a great push, but the losers don't really get anything out of it. In a singles match, sometimes the loser gets just as much or even more respect sometimes, then the winner

Thing is the last few kotr's weren't brilliantly booked. Anyhow the MITB is a nice fun match to have at wm which gets superstars over. I didn't realize that was such a bad thing.

It doesn't get superstars over. We're lucky if it gets any superstar. Is edge more over because of MitB? Mayyyyybe. Maybe. Is Kennedy? No. Anyone else who was in it? Nope. Punk? definitely not yet.

It a fun and easy to book match to have at wrestle mania to sell PPV buys. That's what it is. And while it's fun I'd trade it for KotR in a heart beat.

And btw, the 2002 KotR was brilliant from start to finish.

Actually, this years mitb got all the superstars over imo especially john morrisson.

edit: dont remember much about kotr 2002, can't have been that great.

We'll see. Little too early to tell how much imoact it will have on them. Jericho got nothing from it and neither did Kennedy I can tell you that much right now.

I agree they may get lazy about booking other matches, thats what I was saying, they throw some guys in there instead of booking them elsewhere, but MITB itself is hardly lazy. KOTR also has the same level of thought put into it normally. The qualifying matches are hardly any more well thought out or planned than MITB qualifying matches are. And the final 4 or 2 in KOTR is a lot more predictable and random than the top picks of MITB. They pick guys cut from the same cloth to compete. They could easily have defenses of one or both secondary titles and MITB on the same show.

This year you had Punk win it and could have still had Kennedy, Jeff Hardy (providing he didn't fuck up), Morrison, Shelton and potentially other guys involved in the match that would give it more than enough star power..while still having Matt Hardy vs MVP for the US title and Jericho vs someone else.
Theres enough talent to do all 3, or at the very least MITB and one of those titles defended.

The IC title not being defended is nothign new since MITB, it hadn't been defended years prior to it.

I will settle for KOTR and MITB equaling the same thing for all intents and purposes, but I don't think KOTR is in any way a superior booked or managed contest.

lol kennedys like the only one i guess that i don't think got over actually, the rest all made some impact in that match.

Kennedy would have saved it until late 07 or the next years wrestlemania and probably made some form of impact. Jericho also got nothing from it because he didn't win it, Punk did and thats yet to be seen. But if it gets him on Raw or Smackdown and sees him with a PPV title match for one of the major world titles, it has done volumes for him.

I wonder if shelton will ever win it, he's made that match his own but is never in a real position to win it lol.

<font color=goldenrod>I like MITB but yeah it definitely is lazy as the angles write themselves. I would rather see the IC and US belts get a chance to be defended on the biggest show of the year (the former hasn't been defended at WM since 18) therefore allowing a couple lower ranked guys a chance to jump in and thus make the match not too predictable/reassure the viewer that somebody fresh is getting a rub.</font>

He's not MITB material yet, or at least not until they push him in a way beforehand that makes it acceptable for him to win

I'm talking this year. Jericho and Kennedy gained nothing from being in this matches other than some new sores.

True, but that can be said about a lot of wrestlers in a lot of matches. What would Jericho have gained from being in another IC title bout at Mania?

True, but that can be said about a lot of wrestlers in a lot of matches. What would Jericho have gained from being in another IC title bout at Mania?

Not much, plus it would've been too predictable that he would've won the match.

What Jericho did get from it is that he was the big fish in that match. Also helped the match itself and everyone in it. He sorta headlined that match, whereas without him it would have been a tad less credible.
Again, I think him being the big deal of that match is a better showcase for him (not wrestling wise, but overall) than if he had just wrestled some grudge or midcard title match.

Potentially stupid question. Did Jericho actually pitch the idea for MITB, or was it just said to be him in kayfabe? I know he invented it in kayfabe, but was it his idea IRL as well?

Yeah jericho gained a lot from mitb actually, the fact that he beat cm punk on raw last monday also helps.

To be fair, that hardly helps a man that has beaten top stars and been a champion. But, yes he does look strong lately save the Big Show thing. That's hopefully intentional, by having him beat CM Punk off the bat to make the rub mean more if they fued and CM Punk eventually goes over him.

I'm all for utilizing Jericho as an IC champion who gets the occasional big win but mostly works programs to put over the young guys and get them some solid in ring work. Basically the same way Benoit was being utilized before he went all Jack Torrence.

He'll probably fued with Punk, MVP and Kennedy before the years out and be a go to guy for when the main event needs someone extra for a fresh title fued, or an elimination chamber. He'll prob get the world title once more before he hangs it up but I think he's more likely going to have the uppermidcard star/active trainer role that Benoit was in.

Nothing, but then again he shouldn't be fooling with that belt anyway...

Is there anyone on the raw roster that could make the ic title look as strong as it does now other than jericho?

that match hurt Jericho. you've got him out there jobbing to bunch of guys who have all failed to prove themselves. He unified the WCW and WWF titles, andyet who looses to that group of poeple. Definitly not gonna help him get back into the main event.

It looks strong?

I think this is the most off topic I've ever seen a wresling thread get.

I actually don't get the dissapointment in Jerichos current capacity. As a Jericho fan, and a fan of future stars as opposed to current ones, I'm more excited to see him work fueds with the likes of Punk and MVP.
Matches and promos should be excellent. Yea, I'd mark out to see him be the center of the show and the champion but it's not gonna happen. He gets guarunteed tv time and entertains me the same regardless. And besides, it's cooler to see him working with young guys and having more open fueds with new challengers rather than facing HHH, Cena and Orton over and over again.
Also, I am fine with how his career has gone. It's been excellent.

IMO yeh, after the way it was booked with jeff hardy, now jericho's probably about the best guy they could've given it to at the time.

I think this is the most off topic I've ever seen a wresling thread get.

Much better thread than it would've been though.

Like Des said, the IC title isn't strong. That's just how it is though. With that being said, it's looked the best it has in years and is in the best hands possible with Jericho and Jeff Hardy this past year.

Way to bury my thread:y::p

Ok, lets say, stronger than it has been in previous years.

:cool:

Jericho/Punk fued for the IC title with Punk going over, followed by a move to Smackdown to fued with MVP after he drops the US title please.

Not sure how i would feel about punk being the ic champ right now, maybe in a couple of months.

the title has to be defend for it to look strong. having a semi-main event player hold it doesn't make it strong he actually has to have a good run. Jerichi damn sure aint done that yet. (Very well could, but he hasn't yet.)

Actually the way he got himself dq'ued against big show makes it look a bit weak, forgot about that bit.

Jeff had a good run, that was ended awkwardly and abruptly thanks to his own actions. Ended by probably the next best man possible, but ended nonetheless.

Jericho could have a great run with it but he's already done that, I'd rather see him keep it warm and make it mean something for Punk after a long program for it.

Aint it a bitch how the fans get behind Jericho at the darndest times? Now they're way back into him.

I also feel the IC and US titles should be defended every week with clean finishes regularly. They should be, since it's not done with world titles anymore in the age of no competition and ppv only title defenses

I miss the attitude era when the titles were booked properly most of the time. And if say jericho/cm punk had a feud back then you could guarantee it would turn out great. These days you just don't know.

ehh, depends. The IC title was booked excellently at times like HHH/Rock or Jericho/Benoit, gettting defended a lot in well built fueds on ppv and tv.

The world title was booked excellently over that period of time, with excellent free tv defenses against guys like Mankind, HHH, and even Xpac (at the time he was fuckin over and tv was his only chance to get the nod).

But you also had downpoints for the IC title, circa late 98 and early 99, as well as the occasional world title defense against Al Snow or Val Venis by The Rock

That was cool to see back then though, cause there was so much greatness they could afford to have some down moments, these days its just not quite the same, for obvious reasons. And you could definately guarantee they would've booked a jericho/cm punk feud well.

Titles, particularly the world titles, are booked more like they were in the old days these days. They're never defended on tv and only in big matches, and change hands way less frequently. The way they were booked in the attitude era was because you needed to give away title defenses and even changes on free tv because of the competition of the monday night war, which made everything move at an incredibly fast pace.

It seems they've reverted back to how it was before the attitude era, which is how Vince seemingly likes it unless he has to do otherwise. Not fully though. At least they don't have completely lopsided squashes on tv like they used to

You were pretty young then thought, right?

Which is probably why most of the attitude era generation of fans, including myself on some level, have a hard time with the current state of affairs. We were brought up on a business that was extremely fast pased and eventful with way more happening in way less time, and now it's back to basics for the most part. It's like being an alcoholic and then trying to get your fix off a few sips, or taking speed and then trying to get all amped up off a red bull. Or some analogy I can't think of

You were pretty young then thought, right?

Well im 22 now, so was around 13 back then i think if my maths is correct. Whyd you ask?

Yea, Destor, he was probably young. Hell, I was but I realize now how great the main event and most of what went on was while at the same time being kinda shallow and not as well rounded.
Storywise, and for main events ppvs were amazing but if you look at some shows at face value they don't really hold a candle to a lot of current ones. Mainly Wrestlemanias.

They began to fix this as they won the war though. 2000 WWF was probably the best it could be, since it had the perks of the attitude era and all those stars, while still having a depth to its roster and a well rounded card in all divisions.

Don't get me wrong, the attitude era > today, but theres a lot to it.

I think some of that post was blinded by nostalgia, just saying.

You might be right actually.

I'm 22 as well TL. The Rock vs Xpac for the title was far more enjoyable to us because we didn't know better. If we knew what we do now, we'd be just waiting for the dissapointing end to it and wouldn't be jumping off the couch thinking we'd be able to go into school tuesday and talk about the upset.

Def Des

True. I think the crowd at the shows had something to do with it, the crowd were fired up more than these crowds today, and i dont think this bit is nostalgia. Just saying from what ive observed.

It's a bit of both

I was AT that Raw.

When HBM hit Xpac with the chair?

Nah honestly, the crowds of today just sit there and do fuck all most of the time. This is partly due to very poor booking obviously though so i can't really blame them.