Better Wrestler #17
 

Well it finally happend. We have indcted our very first member into the Better Wrestler Hall of Fame. Stone Cold Steve Austin has done, by a single vote he beat out Bret Hart. Very cool. Well we have to move on I suppose so lets introduce our two brand new challengers for our vacant championship:

http://www.businessweek.com/the_thre...perty/hulk.jpg

VS

http://z.about.com/d/prowrestling/1/0/i/4/-/-/cena.jpg

Yes, you heard it right! Whose better? John Cena, or Hulk hogan?

<SELECT><OPTION selected>Better Wrestler History<OPTION>RVD vs CM Punk (34-19-2)</OPTION><OPTION>RVD vs Santino Marella (36-4)</OPTION><OPTION>RVD vs Mr. Perfect (15-23-1)</OPTION><OPTION>Mr. Perfect vs Tully Blanchard (30-5-1)</OPTION><OPTION>Mr. Perfect vs Chris Jericho (15-23-3)</OPTION><OPTION>Chris Jericho vs Brock Lesnar (34-10)</OPTION><OPTION>Chris Jericho vs William Regal (38-14-2)</OPTION><OPTION>Chris Jericho vs Eddie Guerrero (21-23-13)</OPTION><OPTION>Eddie Guerrero vs Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat (26-7-3)</OPTION><OPTION>Eddie Geurrero vs "Macho Man" Randy Savage (26-19-3)</OPTION><OPTION>Eddie Guerrero vs Diamond Dallas Page (39-8)</OPTION><OPTION>Eddie Guerrero vs "Stone Cold" Steve Austin(19-28-2)</OPTION><OPTION>"Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs Chris Benoit (32-13)</OPTION><OPTION>"Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs Jake "The Snake" Roberts (29-10)</OPTION><OPTION>"Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs Sting (36-16-2)</OPTION><OPTION>"Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs Bret "The Hitman" Hart (32-31)</OPTION></SELECT>

<SELECT><OPTION selected>Better Wrestler Hall of Fame</OPTION><OPTION>"Stone Cold" Steve Austin</OPTION></SELECT>

This one should be interesting. Although it was fairly easy IMO

So easily John Cena for me. But I think everyone knows that I hate hogan like no other. Hulk Hogan is the single worst thing that happened to the business of pro-wrestling, he made a lot of money for Vince but through him Vince killed the territories thus making it next to impossible to make a dime in pro-wrestling with out working for McMahon. Personal bias makes me say: Fuck you hogan.

( just thought it was funny)

It's about that time where we're supposed to get into an amazing discussion, but we're pretty much eye to eye on this.

Some asshole needs to come in and make bold claims that we can team up on

Hogan 110%

I just cant wait to hear people's reasoning. It gonna by why the hate the other on less. should be gold.

Sadly, I bet Hogan wins

I dunno. TPWW hates hogan.

HULK HOGAN'S INVOLVEMENT IN WRESTLING SINGLE HANDEDLY SAVED MY LIFE WHEN I THOUGHT I HAD NOTHING LEFT TO TURN TO! HE IS THE GREATEST MAN IN THE HISTORY OF MEN! AMERICA WAS CREATED FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF PRODUCING HULK HOGAN!

Those are about boldest claims I can make at midnight. Also I voted Cena

Yea but I still think nostalgia and all that shit will kick in. Plus people will bring up the "Hogan's why I watch wrestling" and "he was the biggest draw" ever shit

And here I thought Andre was the "biggest" draw ever

:|

EH, I loved Hogan... as a kid. Now I see very little redeemable qualities in him. While I'm not a huge fan of Cena in his current state, he wins by a mile.

Hogan could tell a good story back in the day. Andre v. Hogan is a hell of a match.

That being said, Hogan has very few moves and sucks and has fucked up the industry.

Cena is, I believe being built as a new Rock/Austin/Hogan and I really think they wanted to build him up with Orton and some others. In a few years he'll be a big name, but not the big name, and I really see no comparision to Hogan in terms of ability to sell, which is what this kind of wrestler is there for.

That being said he can wrestle better than Hogan.

So draw.

Hate them both badly. Gotta go with Hogan. I never watched Cena as a heel so who knows maybe if i had i might have picked him. Don't really care tho i can NOT imagine ever liking Cena. Hogan is still and asshole. This poll is the exact opposite of the last one.

Cena is what Hogan should have been without the terrible booking.

Few things

First, congrats to Austin. I've so far only one time voted by my own personal markdom and not who really should have got the vote...and that was the last round. Bret was my hero growing up and my fav wrestler ever, so there was no way I can ever vote against him. But let's face it, Austin did more business then Bret did.


Now, on to this one. I want to just say that I don't hate any wrestler personally. No one wrestler has done anything bad to me personally, so I don't really care enough to have a passionate hate for anyone. I'm not involved in the wrestling business, so I could care less what wrestlers do outside the ring. I don't agree with some of the booking and power play decisions sometimes by certain owners and wrestlers involved, but at the end of the day, it's just a tv show to me.

anyway, it's not even close here. Hogan is right up there with Austin in the business side of things. I'm not going to sit here and argue that Hulk put asses in the seats and made a shit load of money for the business in the 80's and then again in the mid 90's. I'm sure most of you don't even care. But I can't deny that and Hulk easily gets my vote

hogan didn't make money for the buisness, Hogan make money for two promoters, first McMahon and later Ted Turner, other wise he's the reason no one can make a buck with out the guy he made the money for. Ric Flair made money for the buisness.

I don't get it? you're saying it like Hogan never amounted to anything. Hogan shouldn't have been anything other then what he was. I'd say it worked just fine the way he was.

It's Hogan, no question here. Whether you like him or not, he helped save pro wrestling when it was dying in the 80's.

Wrestling wasn't dieing in the 80's. Now the 90's sure...

At least not until Hogan killed it...

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/r7hLxGx4yXA&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/r7hLxGx4yXA&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

Yes. Because Hulk Hogan bastardized pro-wrestling with that cartoon bullshit pro-wrestling died and this garbage sports entrainment was born. If you think I don't hold Vince responsible for th death of pro-wrestling, you're mistaken. But the blame doesn't fall on his shoulders alone. Hogan earned his share of the credit. If he gets credit for making the company all that money than he deserves credit for putting out all those promotions out of business as well. Because the one caused the other bro.

You can't have it one way. Cause, and effect. Now if you want to say it was Vince's business genius that made the WWF all that money in the 80s then fine. Hogan is in no way to blame for the death of pro-wrestling in the US. No argument. But as long as people site Hogan's successes for McMahon then his disctruction of the business has to be part of his legacy too. There's no way around it. With it out him McMahon's monopoly doesn't exist. This Sports Entertainment circus doesn't exist. Before he changed the face of pro-wrestling you could make a pretty decent living in the business. Not to mention you'd be able to better ply your craft across the country as there were GREAT wrestlers to learn from everywhere and different styles all across the nation.

After him you can't make money anywhere with out joining up with WWE inc. You have a bunch of green guys trying to be groomed by the monopoly because they have borderline all of the great people to learn from. Going up and down the road you don't find too many of those truly acceptional wrestlers, you mostly hacks or green kids.

Before hogan wrestling was booked and written by wrestlers. After hogan you get failed TV producer and writers trying to churn out a product we're expected to enjoy. Look at the abomination of mainstream pro-wrestling in the mid 90's. especially WCW. Thats all Hogans influence.

He changed the business but it only benefited those with in the McMahon regime. Other than for him wrestling has been marred with financial failures for all who have tried to touch it. And that's not the way it was before Hulkamania, that's after.

So yeah, I hold it against him.

This one is tough. From a wrstling stand point, I feel Cena tales the cake. He's far more athletic, versatile, and agile than Hogan is or was. Then again, Hogan could tell one helluva story, something I personally do not feel Cena has quite learned yet.

At the end of the day, I have to go with Cena based on his abiltiy to grow more over the years much more than what Hogan did in his career. While we see Cena pull something new out every so often (top rope leg drop, STFU when he debuted it), Hogan's repitiore never changed. Cena gets my vote.

No Contest

I'm not saying I don't understand why hogan did it, I'm saying I don't respect it and that I refuse to acknowledge it as a positive.

wrestling would have been better off with out hogan, Vince McMahon is another story...

John Cena.

I'm not jumping on the Anti-Hogan Band Wagon here, but I've never liked the guy. Nothing against the guy himself, the wrestler or the backstage person, I just simply never liked him.

When I got into Wrestling I was into guys like Bret Hart, Chris Benoit, Sting and (Shamefully) Lex Luger. Hogan never really got my attention.

Anyways, obviously I dislike Hogan more now because of the way he is. But that doesn't change my opinion of who I voted for. When I vote on these polls, I don't take into account things like who made more money, who sells more, who draws more etc... all I consider is who I generally like more.

As I said, my vote goes to Cena.

Vote goes to John Cena.

I NEVER liked Hogan. I was just not a believer in all that is Hulkamania. I found him annoying and just not very fun to watch in ring. As I got older I really started to see that Hogan was in fact god awful in the ring. Though I hate Cena now, at a point I really did like him. So he gets my vote.

There is nothing wrong with John Cena, it's just how he is booked. Naturally, he takes the brunt of this because it's him whos shoved down our throats, so the fans resent him.
Cena is a fine worker, and a hard worker, and has a great attitude. He has above average skills on the mic and the charisma department and deserves to be a main event player and a champion. I can't deny that. It's just that he doesnt, hell I dont know if anyone does, deserve to be pushed the way he is. I understand why it's done, but I don't have to like it and the overexposure turns me off to his work as a result. Fans resent him for something hes not doing, understandably so. A shame really.
I also have no problem with his current capacity. We'll see how long that lasts.

Hogan on the other hand, is a disgrace

Hogan has ruined angles, matches, careers, titles, even promotions on his own by throwing his weight around and being a slime.

Draw. I hate them both equally.

I never really even liked Hogan as a kid. I was way more into the Undertaker and Warrior and a little of Mr. Perfect, hell pretty much everyone but that damn yellow goon. Only time Hogan was interesting was in the NWO, and that was mostly Hall and Nash. Hogan is a politicker who sells tickets to his nostalgia. Cena, well there's still hope for him if they book him differently. I'm pretty sure whomever wins this will NOT be going into the Hall of Fame, unless they spend the next four rounds going out there against brooms.

I thought being able to carry a broom to a good poll was a sign of greatness?

Exactly. If Cena carries four brooms to credible matches he deserves to go in.

Which is not the way I phrased it. iytbvuijmpkolbiyrctvbjlkbgouvkjlbn;lihvb j

I am too much of a man to edit my way out of the situation I created. I'm pretty sure Cena will win here, and that he will not advance to the HOF, unless he spends the next four rounds going up against Hulk Hogan at Halloween Havoc '99.

98

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/KkuWQl0GoUM&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/KkuWQl0GoUM&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

Well 98 was the Warrior match, and that's one of the biggest abortions ever

Cena gets my vote, hands-down.

Sure, the whole Superman-push is annoying, but that seems to be more on WWE's side of things than Cena himself. He's handy on the mic, and can put on good, even excellent, matches without needing someone to carry him. Cena has the chops to be the company-carrying star they want him to be, but he's just been booked the wrong way for too long.

As for Hogan...well, I think Destor pretty much summed up what I think of him. Not to mention the guy makes the Kliq look like Terry Funk when it comes to putting folks over.

Cena.

Cena can go in the ring...or well he used to be able to. Hogan could turn it on in Japan...and thats about it.

Cena from what everyone says backstage is a great guy, Hogan.....yeah.

Plus Hogan helped be apart of the Starrcade 97 fiasco. A guy is chasing you for over a year, be afraid of him when he gets in the ring.

Vote goes to Cena. He's at least capable of occasionally putting on a good match.

Edge is a great worker. Triple H is a great worker. CM Punk is a great worker. John Cena is a fine worker.

I guess I had a different definition of fine. By fine, I mean good. Not great, but not poor. I'd say he's above average, with average being your run of the mill wrestler

lol

Hulk Hogan for the win. The guy was over as fuck and he made boatloads of money. That is what the biz is about. Get over and get paid. As bad as some of his matches may have been, the 98 match with warrior alread being mentioned, he always made the crowd go nuts.

WM 18 is a great example of this, hogan was older than fuck, was supposed to be a heel, yet when hogan came out and did his shit they loved it. Cena will never be able to do that.

So he's awesome because he did a bad job of being a heel?

Nah I'm just shittin' around

I don't care at all. I thought this was a joke.

It is

thank you for saying this because I swear I was beginning to think I was the only one thinking it

Wasn't Austin over? Didn't Austin make boatloads of money?

yea, what's your point?

People have been over and made "buttloads of money" with out destroying the entire industry. He made butt loads for WCW didn't he? Oh wait...

Hogan was no Ric Flair in the ring, but he was the reason why the WWE boomed in the 80's and is still the most recognizable wrestler in the world. And for all the shit he gets from the IWC, a lot of which is well deserved, he wasn't the worst wrestler to ever have laced up a pair of boots. He at least knew how to work a crowd and had some knowledge of basic ring psychology, which John Cena has no idea of. Hogan carried a company on his back, Cena has nearly destroyed the WWE these last few years.

And Hogan destroyed the ENTIRE INDUSTRY in the same time. They're highly comparable, except Hogan only helped one company and Cena only hurt one company. Basically yo all keep saying him putting one company over makes up fo all the ones he put out then, and still makes it impossible for to this day.

See Hogan not just no Ric Flair in the ring, he's no Ric Flair out of it either. If you take all the money Hogan made for the Indusrty and subtracted all the money the indusrty could've made hogan's going to come out so far in the red that hes a joke. Ric Flair? Ric Flair made everyone money. All across the world in every promotion he went he drew big money. He went all across the nation making stars, and when he left those places drew better mone because of him working their, elevating their talent.

Flair helped the INDUSTRY. Hogan helped McMahon. That's it. Turner didn't come out ANY better because of Hogan, only Vince. One guy. Flair made countless promoters money time and time again, but the importantthing is he allowed the to make money WITH OUT HIM. That a guy helpng the buisness. Not Hogan.

Hulkamania was an amazing thing at the time, but Vince was the orchestrator and I feel eventually someone would have been plugged in. I give Hogan credit where credit's due, but I feel he was a pawn to a vision, and he's been exploiting the fringe benefits ever since

Yeah jeritron and destor have both said all my thoughts on this matter, though i hate cena just as much for different reasons. So had to vote draw.

Just vote draw, they both suck equally.(thank fuck for that option, btw, otherwise i would be stuck for ages deciding who i hate more)

Nah, it just means they're both as shit as each other.

Voted Hogan

I'm sorry, I don't believe that if McMahon and Hogan didn't do what they did that someone else wouldn't have come along and done exactly the same thing. There was money to be made so it was done. Also, what kind of a wrestling industry would there have been without it?

I don't think we'd be here talking about anything interesting because nothing would have really happened.

Yeah, you're right. In those 80 years before Hogan nothing of merit happend, and thus in the 30 years since him nothing would ave happended. Please. Wrestling was doing big buisness and hot angles well before him.

As far as asing what kind of industry there would be with out him...dude. Wreslting was around long before him, what the hell do you mean. There ws more of an idustry then then there is now. there were more promoters and wrestlers and on average they were making more money. FACT.

As far as someone else coming along had they not, that's irrelevent. They DID come along, and they DID kill any hope of making money in pro-wrestling with out being under Vince McMahon. I'm not interested in what could have been but what actually happend.

Not to play semantics, but "Fact" doesn't mean "Truth". If I say "Blueberries are pink", it's a fact. It's just not a true fact. The only reason I bring it up, is that if I argue exactly counter to your point -- which I totally agree with, by the way -- I could still emphasize it by saying "FACT" at the end, regardless of the FACT that's it's a hot-air concept.

Just lookin' out for a brotha. :)

Pointless post ^. Just lookin out for you brotha

It couldn't have been such a good and strong industry if it took one promoter to break away from the norm who was able to buy out all the competition leaving the old territory system for dead.

I know old romantics love the terrirtory system but seriously the wrestling business moved on with the times what with syndicated national television deals and PPV. These promoters who were making so much money obviously missed a step and fell by the wayside for a reason.

When I was asking what kind of industry there would be now I was hinting to the fact that it would be antiquated, behind the times and not as global as it is now. I think it's progressed for the better, not many people would give a shit otherwise.

WWF lead to WCW stepping up and even ECW was a revolt against the norm, I just don't see how the way things panned out that it was all so bad.

It wasn't bad for tv audiences and stuff, I think he just means the industry as a whole and people working outside the world of national television and saturday morning iconary

I was just fucking around

yea, I agree wrestling is dead. It's gone, buried and will never be back. The WWF is a sports entertainment company that happens to have a wrestling program. I agree that's it's a tough job if you want to make any money these days and I could see why Destor's pissed because that's his profession. But McMahon did what any businessman in his right mind would do with the product he had. He made the most out of it. I'm getting way of track here from the thread, but wrestling is dead to me and I've come to accept that it is what it is now as far as the show. It's a shit show, but what can you do.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

I sometimes wonder if you actually believe this shit...

wrestling isn't dead. Thre's still a lot of great wrestling and wrestlers, in and out of the WWE. It's just that WWE dispenses quality matches at their own discretion and rate, as to preserve the hunger for them. It's a business move

Both have done so much to ruin wrestling...but at one time Hogan was benefiting it...I don't know that Cena has EVER been a benefit to wrestling. But with that said I just can't vote for Hogan as the better or best of anything positive. So I voted draw.

I went with Cena which makes me sick....

Why?

Atleast he can entertain me or has entertained me, more then Hogan pointing his finger and watching the fans...yell...YOU!

I refuse to vote. No matter who wins will lose next round.

And can we have the Brooklyn Brawler in the next match :D.

lol Horrible

http://youtube.com/watch?v=z2jwe5HSABQ

Hogan not only helped WWE in the 80's become the universal leader in wrestling, but he also helped WCW in the mid-90's OVERTAKE the WWE in the ratings. It wasn't just the nWo that accomplished that, it was the Hogan heel turn that created a lot of the drama around it. That can't be overlooked, no matter how much you hate Hogan.

True, Hogan is no Ric Flair in or out of the ring, but that's not to say he never made anyone but himself money. Warrior? Money. Savage? Money. Sting, Goldberg, pretty much anyone that headlined a PPV with Hogan made money. Flair is definitly better across the board than Hogan, no question. Could Flair have drawn as much money as Hogan? We'll never know, but Hogan had crossover appeal that Flair has never had, so I'd say not.

You're right about the fact that Flair gave more to the business, anyone that would argue that point is an idiot. But Hogan did accomplish a lot for the business as a figurehead, and that can't be completely overlooked.

of course, you have to look at how Hogan turned heel, and it being a primary response to the whole bit where Hogan as a face couldn't do shit anymore. It doesn't make sense to credit Hogan merely for the state of no longer being an albatross. Sure, he contributed at least somewhat, but a lot of what he contributed was simply a novelty from a dying career. WCW did a lot to pull themselves up. Granted, it was feast or famine, but at that point, it was clearly not famine.

Also, the success of WCW can be attributed to firing Mick Foley. FACT.

I have to admit...that was vastly entertaining.

Maybe towards the end when he was on Smackdown but not when he is on Raw trying to be funny.

Meh..I found some of the Raw stuff to be amusing. i couldn't help but laugh at his Khali impression.