Telling us what to think (Benoit)?
 

Maybe it's just because I was/am still (Despite the f'd up end.) a complete Benoit mark but....

Do you think its right for WWE to chage history and erase Benoit completely?
I dont agree with it, and here is why.
Double murder suicide aside, Benoit was one of the best in ring performers ever, not just in WWE, but in all of pro wrestling.
Now WWE wont acknowledge he ever even existed (Minus his place in the title history.)
This brings me to my point. Do you think its right for WWE to tell us what to think, or remember?
A few years from now there will be wrestling fans, and new wrestlers, that never knew who Benoit was. Yeah what he did was wrong, and hes a bit of a black eye. But that don't give WWE the right to tell us what we can and cant remember, by erasing Benoit from history.
I take it as offensive that WWE thinks it's fans are stupid and wont notice him being erased.
I understand why they are doing it, but I think it would be just as ease for them to not talk about what happened to him in the end, and leave his history be.

What do you think? Discuss.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...ris-benoit.jpg

Good wrestling matches > human life and morals, to some people.

I personally have no use for him anymore. I can't get past that. I think erasing him is right, because in an industry where legacy and respect is the only tangible accomplishment, he threw his away.

I don't think it has to do with the fans but the public in general. I think the WWE thinks that if they acknowledge him at all the general public will continue to see wrestling as roided up freaks in a carnival. You may think who cares what the general public thinks but sponsorship plays a huge role.

It will take time, a long time but eventually Chris Benoit will at least be mentioned again. He will never be hall of fame or even celebrated in any way. He will just be mentioned in passing. Is it right? I guess it depends if you think of Chris as a great wrestler or a family murderer. I think of him as a wrestler.

Is there any other instance of something even close to this that has happened in sports that we could use to compare how it was handled? I can't think of anything.

He killed his 7 year old son. If you haven't let that shink in, just give it a moment right now.

But he had good matches? Who cares.

O.J.

Either way it doesn't matter anymore

Do people care if serial killers are good at their jobs? I'm sure some of the most reprehensible people of all time were great at their job.
"Yea he killed a bunch of people, but he was a great sales rep. We should keep talking about all those sales."

I dunno, a lot of wrestlers have said that they will remember Chris Benoit for who he was in the ring and not what he did outside of the ring. I tend to agree. Benoit will always be a scumbag for what he did to his family, but I have no problem watching his matches and still being entertained.

I do agree however, that he probably shouldn't be mentioned on WWE anymore though.

Yes, I don't like being told what I can and can't know about. As a free person we all have the right to free knowledge. I don't thinks it's WWE's choice to make for us. Let people make up there own minds about what they think, remember, or know.
I mark out every time Shawn dose the Crippler Crossface now, because it's like a big middle finger to Vice saying, "Yeah I remember Benoit, so what you going to do about it."

Personally I think it's placing an unhealthy importance on wrestling matches, and not any standard of life. At the end of the day, those matches are two guys giving eachother moves and a job. His family was his family, and it was a woman and 7 year old child. It was human life. That's my take.

From a business point a view, as a publicly traded company, it is absolutely the right move for the WWE to disassociate themselves from Benoit in every way they can. Enjoying Benoit's matches are one thing, but from an outsider's perspective, for the company to promote anything having to do with the man who murdered his wife and child and then killed himself would just be another black eye on an already questionable industry. Maybe you can still enjoy Benoit matches and forget about what happened afterwards, but a lot of people cannot. It would be like a museum hanging up the collected works of Hitler right after WWII.

Really, there is nothing to be gained by remembering Benoit or his storylines at this point "officially" by the WWE, but there is a whole lot to be lost in terms of offending viewers. I absolutely think they have made the right call.

I don't think the WWE thinks fans are stupid, nor do I think it will be only a few years before fans or other wrestlers especially forget who Benoit was. It's just something that as a company they can't talk about.

My honest question is this...

To those who defend his legacy, or choose to look the other way (there's a bunch of you)...
Are you doing it because that is honestly how you feel about situations like this, and it is your honest standard? Or are you doing it because you really liked his matches and moments, and are rationalizing a way to keep them dear?

The WWE isn't preventing you from logging on to wikipedia and learning about anything you want to know Benoit related.

Fuck Benoit.

They should just pipe in fake heat in all his matches. Make him a heel.

No, I was appalled by what happened. It's obvious that Benoit had some serious problems and it's sad that he wasn't able to get help for them in time. It's a sad sad story.
I'm not sympathetic for Benoit, or trying to pass blame. He's a horrible person for what he did.
But I have worked through it, and moved on, so I don't mind watching the occasional Benoit match and admiring the talent.

I don't admire shit

That's fine. But don't you realize it would probably be more damaging to the WWE to "celebrate his legacy" and "admire his talent" by ever doing anything to acknowledge him publicly?

Cause cursing and calling people names always makes you right. Very mature BDC.

I'm not saying they have to acknowledge him in any way. Just leave his matches and performances alone, it's so annoying to be watching 24/7 and see a chunk of match cut out because of a Benoit run in.

But you don't get it BDC. His suplexes and chops were great, so we're not supposed to care that he killed a child.

What are you 14? You cant stand someone with a different opinion so you throw a tantrum. Grow up.

He put his autistic kid in a crippler crossface. This is fact.

I'm not bitching, I'm just discussing it. You are the one freaking out. If you don't like the conversation than don't be part of it.

"Double murder suicide aside"


LOL

lol

just a footnote

Lol. Trolls like to troll. :lol:

I know the value of human life. I did two deployments, putting my life on the line, seeing some of my friends die, to defend yours and my freedoms of free speech and equality.
No I don't value wrestling over human life. But Overall I don't care enough about wrestling to be offended every time Benoit is shown. I know what he did, I know it was bad. I don't blame WWE for it. It's his fault for what happened, and his blame.

erasing him isn't right..... alot of people have emotional problems, his were just taken too far....for those who find his actions offensive, they should boycott WWE all together and leave those who respect him as an athlete o continue to watch his past matches.

I love how soft society has gotten. Murder is okay if you have emotional problems

I don't think Benoit is a hero. Hes a murder, period. I'm not excusing that. I just don't blame WWE, or expect them to censor Benoit for me. Like I said, I've dealt with it, and moved on.

You don't applaud the WWE for not trying to make a buck off of Benoit's name? It's like the one thing you can't get on WWEShop.com.

Alright, and that's a gr8 point. But I don't appreciate being called names. I look at this as a discussion, not a declaration of war.

I'm still waiting on my Chris Benoit christmas ornament set. 6-8 weeks my ass

There is nothing funny about killing a child. But when they are pointing an RPG7 at you and your company, you have no choice. It's a sad thing to see, and a regret I have to live with, not you.

lol I like how SIDRA got buried here for basically having a difference of opinion (as unfounded as the opinion may be)

I think we just disagreed. It wasn't really an overboard "shut up Sidra" burial

i watched a chris benoit match the other day. it was weird. i'm not sure how i feel about it. maybe i'll watch one more and get back to you.

Alright maybe that was a bad joke, I was trying to break the ice on the situation. If that is what is upsetting you, I am sorry.

well now you've gone and apologized

Group Hug

If you listen to half the info thrown around about wrestlers these days and in the past twenty years you just listed what seem to be pro wrestling pass times for everyone.

The only one that the majority dont seem to indulge in is Murder (unless your last name is Snuka).

Not defending Benoit, what he did was fucked and unforgivable but funnily enough Snuka is still a legend.

What he did doesn't mean he was bad at his job Jerry.

And none of this have anything to do with his job...

i'm not sure but what about the Lex Luger and Miss Elizabeth situation i know its different but thats all i could think about. which probably won't work in the same way but i'm just throwing it out there

DON'T FLAME

I guess we should just all forget Hitlers killings of the jews and just remember him for his unification of the German people.

lol

yes! a hitler/benoit comparison! this thread is just delving into all of the deep issues!

you have to match absurd with absurd. I dont see why so many people want him to be remembered for everything BUT his final couple of does and are so adamant to have this travesty constantly reminded to us when such bullshit as Randy Savage are still held down as if they never existed, let alone the horse crap that was the Ultimate Warrior DVD.

But he was humble and kept to himself. I read it on the internet.

No, but seriously, I don't blame WWE for removing him. At a point where they were looking liable for his condition, and thus indirectly his actions, they made a decision to not associate with him. As a business, they kind of had to, because WWE: Smackdown your family! ain't gonna go over well.

Completely removing him is kind of retarded, but they were likely covering their bases.

i will always remember his final couple of does

Never forget.

Great argument.

thnx

I honestly believe that people cannot be labelled as "evil" so easily as some have labelled Chris Benoit. The man's actions were sick, and horrible. No one is going to dispute that, and there should always be a "but" added onto his legacy, to remind people of the darkness outside of the ring.

Is Chris Benoit a "hero?" Fuck no. Is Chris Benoit a great wrestler? Yes. You are allowed to distinguish between the two.

Also, promoting Chris Benoit might not be the best idea in the world, and I'd be careful where he is mentioned, but erasing him from title histories and the like is just immature, and makes the company look more guilty than anything.

Agreed.

That said I was a HUGE Benoit mark, I still own his DVD, it sits right up there on my shelf with Eddies. I used to watch it at least monthly.

Since all this I cant say I have ever been able to pop it into my DVD player.

I dont know if what he did should cancel out what he did in life, I cant speak for everyone elses opinion but to me I dont think I can sit down and enjoy any of his work ever again because anytime I think about it how his and his familys lives ended springs to mind and that just destroys it for me.

As for the WWE position, they did what they had to as a business with there head looking like being on the chopping block for his actions. Anyone who thinks otherwise doesnt really understand how business works IMO.

Just thought this was a funny post. Not having a go at you, but it's "soft" to deal with murder by trying to rationalise it using concepts such as science, but it's "hard" to just call someone a murderer and whinge about their work for the rest of your natural life?

What Benoit did was wrong, but he was a sick man. Verne Gagne apparently just killed someone -- because he was a sick man. Are we going to strip him from the record books and the Hall of Fame?

I don't recall anyone calling Chris Benoit a saint. He sounds like a man so obsessed with his work that to know him in any other sense was a curse. He did steal wives, and partake in affairs. Such things make him, truthfully, a horrible person.

Does that mean his in-ring career should not be remembered? And we're not talking about promoted in the wake of horrific incidents -- we're talking remembered. As in not ingored.

Who has said that his final couple of days should be forgotten?

^^^^HE SAID IT BEST!

Fucking wow.

Anyone wanting to promote him being remembered as something that he was rather than what he actually was is forgetting.

What if I killed your family and I was a great Soap Opera star, would you want that show still promoting me and my previous career as for what it was before i went crazy? Welcome to the rest of America's view. WWE isn't doing anything out of the ordinary that someone with a sane mind would not being doing, especially after airing a fucking special to that piece of shit the day after it happened. In all fairness I don't blame WWE as they didn't know all the facts. (Speaking of which it was fucked up watching that special as developments were coming in that made him look guilty )

But whatever, its your opinion, I'm sure you'll enjoy cheering reruns of Benoit, Goodrich, Ray Lewis and OJ Simpsons knowing that you remember how things actually were and not how corporate America wants. Who knows, maybe you'll catch a glimpse of Native Americans getting beat down by Daniel Boone before the Alamo and you'll clap for him too.

I watch his matches because I want to be entertained. By watching them I am not endorsing what he did or even him as a person. He just happened to be a part of something that is entertaining to me. I have no feelings for Chris or any of the people involved. Call me heartless or what have you but what he did has zero effect on my life. Yes, it was terrible and possibly the worst thing a human can do and I can't even imagine the things that his family and friends went through but it doesn't stop me from enjoying his work.

This arguement is going to be exactly like the who screwed bret arguement, isn't it?

It's never going to go away, and it's going to be just as pointless, every time it's brought up.

yes

I believe you are correct.

Thank you, just what I was trying to say.

Again, thank you. I don't have to feel guilty for what he did. That's his and his family's burden. Obviously he felt remorse after he did it, or he wouldn't of killed himself to.

It would seem so.

Gas chambers and millions of dead Jews aside, Hitler had a mean jump shot in the Sunday afternoon pick up games.

should his last days be remembered...yes
but as autopsies and shit have been studied he suffered from dimentia(not sure if i spelled it right). im not saying forget what he did but do you blame someone with parkinsons disease for shaking(not a good comparison, but it gets the idea across). everybody claimed his son had something from fragile x to autism but the tests that were done showed that he was a normal healthy boy(someone said earlier he did have autism). benoit had mental problems and didnt get them fixed in time. would you continue to cheer a man who beat his wife numerous times...like stone cold steve austin(dont get me wrong i am one of austins biggest fans but he did it).did people stop cheering for new jack in ecw (he admitted to four murders, this was before his wrestling career). im sure there are many more but i cant think of them now. i am a wrestling fan and will get flamed for this. i do hate what he did but that doesnt change what i see in a match. wrestling is about the suspension of disbelief and watching a match i am in that moment but he still did what he did and nothing will ever change that. yes the company was right to pull him out, but i believe he shoudl never bei advertised for something but if hes on there, leave it. the eddie dvd they just put out should have had him on it but no where to be seen on the package

I got into that as well in later posts. I don't disagree with that, but I think it's irrelevant. To me at least.
I highly doubt about anyone caring about whether or not John Doe was a good chef after he boils up his family.

You are horrible at this whole analogy thing, aren't you?

Does it make a difference if his kid was retarded or not? HE CHOKED HIS FUCKING KID OUT MAN! And ofcourse he shouldnt be advertised. I dont know about you, but if I showed to an event and saw Chris Benoits dead corpse infront of an autograph signing, i'd be pretty dissapointed. And the fact that Benoit never got himself taken care of is his fault. He had a history of beating his wife. She has a saftey deposit box with all this info in it. You say he didnt get fixed in time like it was somebody running through an airport trying to catch his flight and missing it.


You wrestling fans are quite retarded.

I agree

I'm just gonna say this: he's hardly the first murderer/pro-wrestler and it doens't change how much I enjoy his mathes at all. He's slime, yeah. But so are most pro-wrestlers. The only real difference with him and the others...he got the most publicity.

:-\

I can't just point fingers on who's a murderer elsewhere in the business though. I don't know that there aren't, but I also don't know that there are. I know he's a murderer. Anyone, anywhere in life could be one for all we know. It's a matter of knowing. Anyone else who is the same, gets the same treatment in my book.

It's like the "there's gotta be worse criminals in the hall of fame than Pete Rose" argument.