Seriously, Bret Hart and HBK Fans need to call a truce
 

I'm getting kind of tired of all the Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels spam threads. they both were dam fine wrestlers. you guys need to just let it go.

And please everyone on this board, GET OVER 1997













































But not 1992........:D


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http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/1032/...foundation.png

I could give Loose Cannon a BJ.

This is going to get ugly once Xero shows up.

I agree with you Loose Cannon on your orignal point that both men are great athletes but I think that's all I'm going to say on this thread.

:mad:

I'm more focused on the new millenium:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b382/jeko12/kick.jpg

LOL, what a fag. He had to go home to find his smile. are you serious right now Shawn????

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Just going to point out that after that match, Shawn Michaels went on to win a world title later on, became a living legend and continues to wrestle better than 95% of active workers. After Bret lost in 97, he went to WCW and got kicked in the head and now is a bitchy little girl. HBM wins.

AND UH....I'M GONNA GO HOME NOW :'(

Pretty much, yeah.

lol, I need to add that to my sig

I still love you though.

actually, after Survivoe Series 1997, Bret kind of kicked HBK's ass all over the place. I give you classified proof, file A147

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Then Bret went and let Goldberg donkey kong kick him in the head. Shawn is still an active worker. HBM still wins.

Also that looping sound file of "they screwed me" sounds an awful like a standard Bret Hart interview.

HBM is awesomeness. brett hart is meh-ness

Zen even has a sweet video on You Tube :y:

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Shawn Michaels' fanbase ladies and gentlemen

:n:

I was gonna mention that you could post like... 12 or 13 matches where Bret beat HBM. None of that will change that HBM is still currently the man and Bret is still a whiny feeble little girl. Wheels in which HBM sets in motion in 97.

Also, the times HBM lost to Bret never really meant ALOT to storylines. Both times Shawn beat Bret were pretty monumental events.

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Shawn Michaels is the reason this was allowed to happen. Hell, Goldberg even used Sweet Chin Music as homage to Shawn Michaels to do it.

lol, that was funny

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Also, Shawn still gets to laugh about his wins. Bret doesn't get to laugh about his anymore. or getting Donkey Kong'd by Goldberg.

I couldn't believe it either when I heard... but it's true... it meant nothing :eek::eek::eek::eek:

:nono:

:love:

alright, it's 1 am. I'm out. another night of Bret/Shawn fun. I'll leave you with HeartbreakMan2K's reaction to the above video

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:wave:

And UH....I'm Gonna Go to Bed Now :'(

Well the first clip of HBK hooking himself in the cage, hanging onto the outside of the old school blue cage with no hands clearly shows HBK's stamina, flexibility, and balls. If it were me I wouldn't be able to keep my grip and fallen on my head. HBK clearly had to do more work for the finish than Bret Hart.

The second was a school boy roll up. I'm pretty sure Barry Horowitz won his match vs Chris Candido (or Skip, whatever) with that.

Clip number 3- A ladder bump. No one cares about Bubba Ray Dudley getting hit with the Swanton Bomb when Jeff Hardy jumped off the ladder. They just cared that Jeff Hardy took that amazing risk. No, HBK didn't jump from the same height, nor did he jump at Bret Hart, and alas no tables were harmed in the making of that clip. Bret dropkicked the ladder, but HBK was the one to bust his ass off for the finish of a match, again. Once again, point goes to HBK.

I'll give you number 4 as a clean finish, but look at 1992, and 2009. Hell, I'll even be a nice guy an ignore the idea that the ironman match and the screw job doesn't count (as stated in that last video). In the end one man is still selling out areans, and the other man is on his eternal period.

But in the end, I have a song I'd like to sing for Bret.

Sadly, I am out as well.

AND UH.... I'M GONNA GO TO BED NOW :cry:

:love: LC

GOD DAMN IT LC! I WAS GONNA MAKE THAT JOKE!! :MAD: Got me by like.. 30 seconds :(

Wouldn't it be great if they were all suddenly wiped from the Earth? :D

LC's feelings are hurt.

....When did Des his 26K post?

Both of them rule... I like Bret better but there's arguments for both being better than the other.

HBK fans seems to be the bigger assholes about it. I was a HUGE Bret Hart mark and he's one of my favorites of all time. Shawn Michaels grew on me over the years. Either way, whatever happened in Montreal was just run-of-the-mill wrestling politics boiling over in an environment where it really shouldn't have. If it never happened, would as many people talk shit about Bret on here as they do now? People are so quick to forget that the man is a fucking legend, and that's unsettling.

Wait, when did it become standard to make fun of somebody for a career ending injury? It's not like if HBM took the kick, it wouldn't have turned out any different. It was Goldberg's fault, not Bret's.

Also, truth.

No clue really. Haven't looked at my post count in ages.

ask him what it was like doing shawn's wife!

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look at this, 403 views in less then a day. people love Bret Hart/HBK threads. It's a ratings explosion

I promise you that Bret Hart couldn't have carried John Cena to the WrestleMania main event HBK did because at the end of the day Bret was very good...but he wasn't great.

I would beg to differ. Bret could carry a mop to a great match just like HBK can. Different styles, but the same level of workers.

The only advantage HBK has is he is still wrestling.

This fued will never end. Germany will own up to there war crimes before this will ever end

They only matches of Bret's that are true classics were against: British Bulldog, Mr. Perfect, Shawn Michaels, Steve Austin, and Roddy Piper.

HBK had classic matches with John Cena, Vince McMahon, Hulk Hogan, and Randy Orton...all after coming back from a broken back. Also, that isn't counting all his other classics with the same guys Bret has and then some.

both were in the nwo

Bret Hart wrestled none of those people that you say Shawn had classics with. Michaels wrestled all those guys Bret had classics with besides maybe Piper. Think about that.

So Piper vs Micheals never happened ever?

he also wrestled a great match with Kevin Nash, a pretty damned good match with Yokozuna, some good matches with Sid. Damn what do you want from him? He's retired now.

Both of them were on the same level, but now one of them's retired. But when they were working at the same time, it's not like one outshone the other.

Bret was also a better drawing champion.

Shawn and Bret are the two best wrestlers from their generation. Hating one and loving the other seems insane, but I suppose that sums up most pro wrestling fans pretty well.

Shawn vs Bret summary:

Shawn vacates the title in Feb 97' because he's absolutely unwilling to put ANYONE over. This includes Bret, Sid, Mankind, Steve Austin & the Undertaker. If Shawn had his way Mankind and Austin would have never won a world title.

WCW approaches Bret with one of the largest deals ever. Bret instantly turns it down out of loyalty to Vince McMahon. Bret enters a lifetime contract with the WWF for far less money than the WCW was offering him.

Vince forces Bret to go heel, claiming there is nothing left for him to do as a face.

Vince explains that Shawn Michaels is now the top heel, and that creatively, he doesn't know what to do with Bret because he's no longer a face in America.

Vince tells Bret he can no longer afford to pay him, Bret offers to work for an amount Vince can pay, but Vince tells Bret that he should go back to WCW and see if their offer still stands.

WCW agrees to take Bret, so Vince lets him out of his lifetime WWF contract and writes up a temporary one for his last months in the company (as he's still world champion at the time). The contract gives Bret full creative control over his career and character during those last months.

Vince agrees that Bret should be able to go out how he chooses, because of their relationship, the effort Bret put in working nightly for small payoffs to keep the company alive, and his loyalty in staying with Vince.

During the weeks before survivor series Bret suggests multiple ways in which he could drop the world title. His ideas include Austin, Mankind, the Undertaker or Kane going over him. He is willing to drop the title to Shawn anywhere other than the Canadian shows.

The day of Survivor series (in Canada) Bret and Vince agree that the main event will finish with a run in by the Hart Foundation and DX. Bret will come out on Raw the next day, say goodbye to the fans and vacate the title.

We all know what happens next, Vince, Brisco, Earl Hebner, Shawn Michaels and HHH lie through their teeth.. Vinces walks into the dressing room to let Bret punch him out, because he knows that he was in the wrong, but he felt he had to do it.. yada yada..

The Evil Mr McMahon character is born and a bunch of marks don't realize that Vince is in character when he says "Bret Screwed Bret"



WrestleMania 14: After a 10 year career, the beyond over Steve Austin is set to win his first world title. On the day of the show Michaels says that he wont drop the title to Austin and that he wants to vacate it. Only after a confrontation with the Undertaker, in which he threatens Michaels life, does Michaels walk out to the ring and job cleanly.



Wonderful. :)

Those are classic matches?

HBGay doesnt have a clean victory over Bret. WM12 Bret retains in the time limit Piper stipulated, then gorilla screws him over with a distraction.

And we know SS'97.

HBK cant beat Bret.

Zen gtfo, sock.

I haven't read this thread at all because I honestly can't be bothered.

I will say though I enjoy the irony in people telling Bret, who was directly involved in in the situation to get over it, while they continue to give their own opinions still 11 years later....

thats Kofi Kingston btw

It is a fake sport. Wins don't matter, but the performances that occur in the ring do and Shawn Michaels is better than Bret Hart in that regard (past, present, or future).

Of course it's a "fake" sport..if it were real HBK wouldnt last 10 seconds in there with a guy like Hart...and many others for that matter.

As for getting better performances? Bret at 40 was the best wrestler in the company. HBK was 32 and in his prime and still wasnt the man. That says a ton.

Bret got the best out of the wrestlers he faced, moreso than any other guy. And I'm talking about the guys BOTH Bret and HBK have faced.

They both suck

Well even though I like Bret better, Michaels vs. Perfect is unfair to compare to Hart vs. Perfect cuz Perfect was a shell of himself. Michaels vs. Austin wasn't as good as Hart vs. Austin because Micahels back was fucked. I've only seen one of Michaels vs. Bulldog from 1992, obvious Bret's match was better because it was given more time and Bret was a better worker at thetime. Though I'll assume Michaels vs. Bulldog wasn't as good, there I have no excuse for Michaels.

And also, Bret and Owen had a WAY better match than Michaels vs. Owen.

But Michaels did get more out of Sid... that does say a lot.

I mean they were both fuckin phenomenal, that's what it comes down to really. They both stole the show on a consistant basis. They both just don't like each other and rightfully so, it's just the way it is. It doesn'tmean one was better than the other.

Perhaps you didn't notice where you were posting. On TPWW, the only way to gain any real cred is to ruthlessly mock the crippled and dead. :D

I'm not clicking that

This is just absolutely hilarious. I've got The One so riled up right now...he's just absolutely going OFF on me through reppage...never seen such lengthy reps before, he is beside himself. He is out of control.
If you are recieving pos reps, be sure to know you're only acquiring them because he MUST neg me again, asap.

I mean, to wonder how Bret would be able to beat up HBK in a real fight....yeah the Dungeon produces some legit badasses. HBK would have lasted 30 seconds with Stu before Stu threw the pansy out of his house in shame.

lol @ Stu throwing HBK out

Source?

Have to agree with what ABT said, even though both were great for the WWF/E

Oh yeah Zen, ToVo is really flipping his lid right now. You must have him really worked up for him not to post anything about it in the thread.

Shawn Michaels' refusal to put Austin over has been mentioned in a bunch of wrestling books... You have to remember that Shawn is the guy who had a "No Job Policy" in his territory... His "territory" of course, being the United Sates of America in their entirety..... :roll:

Anyway, best to go straight to the Source. Mark Calaway is asked directly about the incident during an interview on Off The Record and confirms it. :y:

They discuss the incident 3:30 into this part of the interview:

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...or being an overbearing self-righteous asshole.

You mean like you right now?

I am not a smark on a wrestling board talking down about smarks on a wrestling board. I also don't present opinion as fact.

I do not believe that Bret Hart is better than Shawn Michaels, and I damn sure don't believe Shawn Michaels is a pussy like oh so many Hart fans want to claim, even though the only claim those in the dungeon have is that they are tough because they got stretched by an old man who they trusted with their bodies. Of course, I'd think I was a bad mother fucker too if I punched out my boss who just stood there.

I have not posted anything that says I am better than anyone, that I am above wrestling fans, or just in general being a prick. I will admit that I am an asshole, but at least I can admit it...as does Shawn Michaels repeatedly when discussing his past. Bret Hart can't even handle looking down his nose at anyone in the business who wasn't family or friend.

He seems pretty riled to me. He went off on me in a positive rep... it was kind of odd.

Cool. Thanks for that.

I believe The One only posts via rep messages these days.

I P.M.ed this to the one, but I kinda figured how Bret definitely did better business than Shawn. I don't really have sources but I kinda used common sense.

well you need to think about when Shawn had his first reign which was in '96 and business was SHITE, and Bret was gone. Bret won his first title in 1992 which I dunno how good business was for sure, but it was defnitely better than 1996, which we've established is terrible.

Bret's second reign in 1994, again I don't think business was all that bad, he had that great feud with Owen, and with Backlund, again not Hogan or Austin numbers but if you think about it, it was probably pretty decent.

1995-'96 he was more transitional I'd think he probably didn't do THAT GREAT business, but at the same time he was heading into the rumble and Mania which always do good business. His next 2 reigns, (one was like one night so it doesn't really count) came in 1997 all in the time business started to pick up again, with the rise of Austin, DX and the Hart Foundation.

Michaels won the title in November and business was good I'd assume cuz it was the start of the attitude era but not enough to make up for his previous 2 title reigns (I believe it to be 2 cuz he lost to Sid then won in back right)?

It was more timing than anything, but looking at it... facts are facts, just think about when Bret had the belt, and when Shawn had his.

Both guy are gold in the ring, HBK got a little bit more charisma than Bret but thats all, outside the ring they are both assholes, at least Michaels and his fans knows it, Bret still play the victim and thats the only thing I hate about him. There might be one other thing I hate about him, his little bitch called Zen !!!!

How exactly is Bret an asshole outside the ring? Multiple people I know have met him and said he was a stand up guy and those opinions coincide with every report I've seen.

Sure, most of the time I'd prefer to watch an HBM match, but I'm not sure how HBK being a selfish prick makes Bret one by association....?

btw: The neg rep from the "Kliq" was a good laugh. Everything I said in the large post is either caught on film in "Wrestling With Shadows", written in wrestling books or said in interviews/shoots. I'd be interested to see you guys prove any of it untrue?

So Shawn Michaels... (This is copy/pasted - But all of the stuff can be easily proven with a few net searches)

1) Him and Marty Jannetty were shooting an anti-drug commercial for the WWF. They found out that the Road Warriors were getting paid more then them. Shawn got mad and told Jannetty to tell Vince "If you don't pay us more, we're leaving for NWA" when Jannetty told Vince, Vince said "Okay, good luck" and was about to release them, when Vince confronted Shawn about the situation, Shawn said "It was all Jannnetty's idea" and begged for his job back. (I think he even mentions this in his book)

2) Refused to job the World title to Vader at SummerSlam, and said he would not show up. And threw a temper-tantrum in the ring

3) Said he's not going to feud with Owen Hart in the beginning of 1998 (When Owen was the second most over face in the company) because he didn't like him

4) Had Shane Douglas de-pushed cause he didn't get along with the KLIQ, and pretty much had him fired

5) Broke kayfabe the infamous night in MSG, when the whole KLIQ embraced in the ring and made Triple H take the punishment for it.

6) He refused to lose the European title to the British Bulldog at "One Night Only" in England (where bulldog was a huge draw) even after BB dedicated the match to his dying sister

7) Told Vince he's doing "no more jobs in the territory" (The USA)

8) Refused to give Bret his win back at WM 13 so he forfeit the title and made up "I lost my smile" nonsense

9) Was a jerk to The Rock, and tried to ruin his career so HHH could take his spot when they both came up in 1997

10) Refused to job to Steve Austin THE NIGHT of WM 14, until the Undertaker threatened him that if he didn't job in the ring, he was gonna get fuucked up badly.

11) Said he was gonna show up on Nitro with the World Title, after he got into a altercation with Bret Hart backstage

12) Was in cahoots with Vince to screw Bret Hart at Survivor Series 1997

13) The pulled strings (The KLIQ) to get Bret Hart out of main events in his 1995 title reigns

14) Tells Bret Hart to "Get the F*ck out of the ring, this is my time now" after his Ironmatch with him at Wrestlemania.... (Nice way to thank someone for making you a star)

15) Vince forced him to do the job for Hogan, so Shawn went out of his way to make hogan, and the match as bad as possible in a huge temper tantrum.

Yeah.. Shawn's quite the guy to look up to! :roll:

He admits he was a bad person back then, and owned up to it and has improved his life. Bret Hart has let one night consume it and has let it define his existence. Also, I don't want to hear about Shawn not wanting to job when Bret "Mr. Wrestling Purity" refused to follow the golden rule of wrestling.

Ahem. To all the people who attempt to shit on HBK


That is all.

Yeah, because wrestlers are great role models in the first place.

Some of the stories of determination and persistence are things to look up to.. but generally yes, it would be unwise to get your moral foundation from carnies :p

and that is why he is where he is today. its all about the politics and shawn knew and knows that. he knew exactly what to do to get himself up the ladder(no pun intended) so stfu and suck nuts because bret didnt have the balls to do it and look where it got him. he wanted to be noble and shit but i betcha there is a lot of backstage stuff between him and vince that we would all love to hear. brets retarded ass didnt want to lose the tilte in his home town. BIG FUCKING DEAL, it so happens that was where they were booked and vince didnt trust bret enough to let him walk outta montreal with the title and bret was just as picky as hbk because he wanted to be a GOD in montreal and not lose. now im not saying hbk should have acted the way he did but its all said and done and HBK has gotten past that but bret wants to cry in his books that things didnt go his way. TOO BAD, life isnt fair and then you die. BRET SCREWED BRET got kicked in the head by goldberg and fell off a bike. FUCK HIM AND YOU. SUCK IT

Bret Hart got majorly pwned when Owen blazed his way from the rafters to the ring in 2.4 seconds! boooo. Yeah, whatever Bret Hart used to be one of my favorites but he turned into a major league asshole.

Anyone on earth can make a list. However, can you source all of this?
I'm not going to defend anything here, and say it didn't happen. I'm just asking for proof. Something that I've found this internet seems to lack.
And I want all, or nothing at all. Anyone with half a brain can source these some of this. Go ahead, impress me.

Most of the time I think you're a prick.... But at least you're a prick to everyone, and not just taking one side based on what happened with a fake sport.

I'm not saying I'm above that mindset. I'm saying you are, and most people aren't.

I'm glad Kofi Kingstons giganto cock is still on page 2. I thought it brought intresting points to this conversation also.

It classed up this thread ten percent!

It made a huge point

IT'S STILL REAL TO ZEN, DAMN IT!!!

So according to careful study (a couple of neg reps from the "kliq") Bret is a bitch because he whined about survivor series for 11 years.

If that makes him a bitch, what does it make the people here who whined for 11 years about him whining?

Pro tip: the answer is not positive.

Pro Tip

...........K7, if I click that, am I going to see a giant black cock?

Most of those guys are still drug addicts and bastards. Oh, and mentally deranged. Remember those stories of determination from Eddie and Chris?

Those turned out pretty well....

It is my solemn vow to NEVER relate anything to a black cock that isn't my own. I will not post pictures of my junk here...The tatoo is too recognizable :p

I think HBK has gotten over it because he came out in a better situation after everything was said and done. I think if Bret never got kicked in the head by Goldberg then it wouldn't be as much of a big deal to him because he still could've been wrestling.

I think everything happens for a reason because just imagine if Bret never got kicked in the head. He would still be wrestling after 2000 for WCW. WCW probably wouldn't have gone under as quickly if he was the top man but i think eventually because of politics it would've went under. SO, Bret would've had to make a choice: WWE or TNA..but i don't think people were even considering it or was it even alive then?

If Bret would've came back to the WWE...idk if Vince would've signed him..but then again, he did re-hire the nWo, did hire Bischoff (who almost bankrupted his ass) so knowing that Vince likes to take risks for the business and how he loves controversy for his business, i think he would've BEGGED Bret to come back, even have him and HBK sit with Bret in a disclosed location and talk everything out. Eventually, especially with Bret coming to the hall of fame some years back, i think he would've eventually came back. Can you IMAGINE a Bret v. HBK rematch. That shit alone, at a WrestleMania even, would've broke records for attendance, buyrates, and fights within an event with the crowd being HOT...

Man..

Give me a break, the wrestlers say it all the time.

Shit, just watch the mob of guys follwing Hart after the Screw job..they're all behind him, and so many guys said HBK was a fucking little prick.

Also, LOL at the KLIQ cock suckers bombarding me with neg reps..I am the focus of their attentions, completely driving them up the wall. Bring it on bitches.