Waste (WM spoilers)
 

So we build Orton up to be a beast and have him drop the entire McMahon family. He's basically the best thing going for months.....

....and then this.

Its not just that he lost, its the pathetic showing he had in the match. The best comparison I can draw is to the HBM/Taker match. Sure, we all know about the streak and how Taker was likely to win, but watching the match and getting into it, you felt like Michaels COULD win. You never got that feeling here. In fact, I'd say the whole match was anti climatic.

Great job, Vince. Everytime we get something going with Orton, we just have HHH cut him down at the legs.

Discuss.

As I said in the main thread, I liked what they did with it and it worked well within the storyline. It's a bit disappointing Orton didn't come out on top but it came off more of a revenge match, which is what I figured it would be.

its the main event at the biggest show, you cant have a match like that

You can, and you did. HHH was having an epic Mania losing streak. It was perfect build up for HHH to come out the conqering hero. He's a family man, and he won redemption for his kliq, I mean klan.

The problem is, there is really nothing they can do with Orton tomorrow night to make up for this either. Vince might as well find a new top heel to push, because Orton will never be the badass he could have been.

It felt like a Raw first hour main event. It was just boring and plodding and the ending was just a total flop.

i even enjoyed goldberg/lesnar better because of the crowd. Cena making HHH and HBK tap out was even better than that crap.

Storyline wise, there is no reason why Vince shouldn't fire Orton tomorrow

I'm guessing they'll have Shane turn tomorrow, setting up a match at Backlash, where Orton will win. Basically turning what could have been a huge title win, and a really breakout moment, into a swerve and an after thought title change in the midst of a ongoing feud.

Yeah seriously. Orton getting the win over HHH at WM, would have established him as the unstoppable force that they've been building him up to, and is way more important than any "revenge" triple h got from beating him.

At the end of the day, no one would have cheered triple h less if he lost. But they won't take orton as much of a threat now that he lost.

How anyone who booked Mania thought HHH and Orton could put on a better show than UT and HBK is unbelievable. That main event completely killed the buzz the earlier match stirred up.

Yeah, but even if he wins it at backlash, it's not going to have nearly the impact it would have tonight. Just not the same.

Exactly. Backlash isn't the stage to make stars - that's Wrestlemania. They had a great opportunity tonight to put Orton on the map and they blew it. Sadly, it turned into the HHH show again.

Honestly, they need to do two things... 1. Draft Orton away from HHH, along with the rest of the Legacy. 2. Tomorrow night, or next week, have HBK superkick the fuck out of HHH. Set up the feud, give HBK the belt, and give HBK the farewell run with the belt he deserves (assuming he's leaving after the next Mania.) Seriously, have him keep the belt from Backlash to WM 26. HBK is easily one of the top 5 guys when it comes to pulling great matches out of people, and unlike HHH half the time, HBK can make guys look great while doing it.

This.

Triple H doesn't need the Mania wins anymore. He's at a point in his career where he should be happily doing the jobs in order to MAKE new stars. Instead, Vince jobs out what could've been arguably the biggest heel over the next 5 years.

Yeah really, HHH didn't do Orton any favors tonight

I might be done completely here. At least in terms of keeping up with current stuff. I watched maybe 3 wwe/tna shows since WM 24. So I don't watch anymore. At the least, I keep tabs on whats going on, once in while. But even that might go out the window with this latest debacle. I honestly have no reason to care anymore.

I'll still probably get the documentary dvds, but thats pretty much it for me at this point. I'm done.

...or watch TNA

Jerry Lynn as new champion > John Cena as new champion

I keep up with Raw, but I don't fret when I miss out. But since Orton punted Vince, I've been glued. Mania did nothing with Orton that makes me care anymore. I think I'm going on a break. I'm extremely disappointed right now.

BTW, anyone else notice the dead silence that consumed the crowd after Orton was jobbed. I bet Vince didn't.

not even going to go on a rant about my thoughts. it was bullshit.

anyway, I just wanted to comment about this being HHH's "revenge." Here's the problem with that label. To me, Triple H got his revenge on Orton multiple times already. what made this match be his revenge on Orton? He got his revenge when he attacked Orton with the sledgehammer. He got his revenge when he beat the shit out of Orton in his own home and threw him threw his own window. I think that's more of a revenge then pinning him in some wrestling ring. come on

Orton should of walked out of this match outsmarting The Game on the biggest stage of the year. He should of walked out of this match avenging his loss years ago. But yet again....

It was a HHH match. What else did you expect? High quality? HHH isnt capable.

I see we're back on the "let's hate Triple H because he's champion" bandwagon.

I'm on the lest's hate WM because it sucked so fucking bad bandwagon.

Not at all. If the match was decent, and he didn't bury Orton, I wouldn't have cared either way

:y:

I guess they needed to stick one belt on Smackdown! so they might have decided to stick the belt on H. As a whole, the whole event seems lack luster. I hope the Draft isn't so bad this year.

As badass as Jerry Lynn is, even him winning the ROH championship is not a good reason to watch TNA

I'm not upset with the finish. I thought Orton showed himself well, the match was good. The finish was a bit abbrupt for me but nothing bad. Orton can use a legit beef what with Triple H using the sledgehammer to win the match. I'm happy with Wrestlemania.

The match just left a bitter taste in my mouth. No Wrestlemania main event should leave you thinking, "Was that it? ...huh."

Pretty much.

the ending also shows you how much the WWE really has advanced in seven years

Glad I'm not the only one who thought it wasn't horrible.

As for the quick finish, they were really close to going the full four hours (I think it ended at 10:59) and I suppose they had to cut the main event some, which is a bit ridiculous considering some of the filler.

You people will find any reason to bitch about Triple H.

I will not get into that whole argument right now, but everything but HBK/Taker felt rushed. I don't know if Kid Rock ran long or what, but it seemed like everything was rushed and sloppy. It was a good show, but not what I was expecting from WrestleMania 25.

Seems like Cena winning the WHC has taken a back seat to the Triple H hate

You didn't like the 5 song medly that Kid Rock played or the fact that Mickey Rourke had to talk to Frank Shamrock for a few minutes before deciding to get in the ring with Jericho?

The main event should have been like 5 minutes longer but nothing I can complain about it was like 24 minutes as it was.

I don't know how people are thinking Orton looked weak in that match. He backdropped HHH through a table and hit two RKO's and would have beaten HHH if the ref wasn't out. Then it took HHH a sledgehammer to beat Orton. Was it the perfect match I was expecting? No, they could have done better. Did they stink up the joint? No, they still have more matches ledt for their feud we all know that this is going to Hell in a Cell at like Judgment Day or something and if Orton doesn't get the rub there I'll be with you guys in your furosity.

As for right now I'm happy, Wrestlemania had 5 good matches in it and the other 3 were either too short to matter or were made entertaining by seeing two of my favorites of all time (Jericho & Steamboat) go at it.

Perhaps I'm just easier to please.

That's only because the bigger issue is the fact that there are about 100 Cena clones running around Huston right now.

It's probably on CNN right now. I think they Attitude Adjusted half the city already.

Also, Punk winning seemed... Weird. Why they'd give him the MITB AGAIN after basically burying him as champion I do not understand.

Should have been MVP or Shelton's year.

That was every true wrestling fan's worst nightmare

The marks citing that this is just H hate need to stop. How is it that the majority of people here (and a good portion of the live crowd it seems) understand that this was the time to make Orton the star they've wanted him to be. Instead, Vince took the ball and threw it in the garbage.

I side with WWKD here. What can they do tomorrow night on RAW that establishes Orton as a credible threat to HHH? Storyline wise, the feud is over. HHH defended the honor of his family and kicked the shit out of Orton. The feud can't really go anywhere else and Orton can't gain back the months of buildup.

KANE GOT FUUCKED OVER!!!!!!!:foc:

I am leaving it spelled like that!

You're right, Orton was buried. I will not deny that (though he isn't destroyed). But from a "classic" storyline standpoint, it makes complete sense for Triple H to go over.

Exactly.

What Xero said

What Juan said.

And by the way, you want to talk about "marks", look who's looking at one side of the table. You're Orton marks, that's your problem.

(Obviously directed at dablackguy...)

Orton has yet to get the rub in big matches. What are people going to watch more, Wrestlemania or Judgement Day? who the hell cares about Judgement Day. Yea, I always see lots of Judgement Day matches being played during the WWE highlight packages. More casual fans tune into Wrestlemania and you would think this is the PPV to put the most emphasis on your younger superstars and put them over.


I have no problem with Triple H as champion. I have a problem with him getting the rub in these high profile matches when he doesn't even need it. He's been there, done that.

Agreed. Everything Orton has been built to be has been wasted. It took them 3 months to make Orton a monster heel, and it took them 23 minutes to kill all momentum. I'm sure Orton will get the strap eventually, but tonight could have been special.

I honestly though Christian had MITB. The crowd got hot when he was up the ladder by himself. Punk's win was very underwhelming.

:y:

I dunno, I find it hard to believe that they would invest so much time and money into Orton to drop it just like that. I'm sure they have something big planned for him

Storyline wise it makes sense. I was rooting for Orton because WWE has built him up so well since he returned from his injury.

I also love how you people seem to think Triple H booked himself to win, when it isn't his call. Yes, Orton winning would have been huge but then most of you would bitch anyway about him looking weak or the heel wining at WrestleMania.

Anyway, I think HBK/Taker left everybody so exhausted that the title matches were doomed to be above average.

There's still the possible swerve with the McMahons turning on Triple H and siding with Orton.

If you get that, come back and tell me how great that's going. :y:

It doesn't get much bigger than tonight.

Again, I think Orton will get eventually go over and get the strap. And I get that Triple H winning and beating the man who was out for his family is a "classic" finish, and adds a new dimension to H that he's never really had.

BUT...no matter what they do with Orton, it will not make up for losing at Mania. Tonight was his night to be made, and they blew it.

I don't really think Orton needs to be *MADE* anymore though. He's past that. He's already a legit star.

Orton was fucked years ago.

If they can build it to this point once they can build it again.

And Juan makes a good point, Orton is already made.

Not really

I recognize that he's arguably the best thing RAW has had going in the last few months (Its either him or Jericho and the other is number 2)

The best thing I can relate it to is the Booker T/HHH feud back around 2003 and the whole "guys like you don't win the world title" remark. The buildup was ultimately pointless given the outcome. Its like Vince decides he wants to make Orton a star and then gets talked out of it.

I can't even say I truly hate HHH. I don't love the guy, however I don't mind him in good feuds. Yeah, in the "classic" sense it fit, but we're not talking about HHH vs Edge (someone who wouldn't have lost much steam doing the job) I like Orton but I'm not going to do the markish thing: throw a fit and say I'm not watching anymore cause Orton didn't win. Honestly, how can you say it wouldn't have been the best thing for the company? You admit that Orton got buried; how does this serve the company with regard to its most over young wrestler? That's the main issue, the fact that its HHH (given the supposed repuation) doesn't help in the eyes of a lot of people imo

I wish Triple H would of won with help from the McMahons tonight giving the impression that Orton got screwed over. Book that with Orton out wrestling HHH the entire night and you actually give Orton a bit of a rub without him actually winning.

Randy Orton beat John Cena and Triple H at...

...drum roll please...

LAST WRESTLEMANIA!!!

(the crowd goes wild)

That's a pretty fucking big rub...

I know you wanted to see Orton win tonight... I did too. Buthim losing tonight doesn't mean his career is over or he'll never be over again or even that he lost all his momentum. Triple H won the match because at the biggest show of the year you want to send the marks home happy. And marks want to see the bad guy lose.

I don't want to be a jerk about this. You're entitled to your opinion. But in my opinion the finish was good.

you think he can draw money on his own right now? Without HBK, Taker, HHH, or Cena on the other side?

I never said it wouldn't be the best thing for the company for Orton to go over. It would have been. But Triple H going over is not the end of Orton.

Again, it makes sense from a storyline standpoint and that's my main point here.

I do think there's some merit to that statement

Agreed. But he has never gotten that epic victory.

IMHO, he's at a turning point in his career. He's entering his prime, and has never been as good as he is now. With his buildup, he NEEDED this win. H going over negated everything Orton has done.

On a side note, I'm very surprised we didn't see ANY color in this match. I was calling it for Orton to be crimson by the end of the match.

It's hard to tell since those 5 have been basically only wrestling each other over the past 2 years or so.

That is an absurd statement LC. Who in WWE right now is draw by themselves? Hell, who in the history of wrestling was a draw just by themselves.

All the guys I just mentioned

Orton beat Cena & HHH at last years Wrestlemania

If you forgot that then Wrestlemania isn't as big of a deal as your making it out to be.

You are full of shit.

Heels don't draw anyway. The faces they feud with draw.

Exactly. Plus, No Mercy 2007 anyone???

You admit that he buried Orton and say its not the end of Orton.

Fair enough, but its a MASSIVE leap backwards

what? who do you think is drawing in the fans right now?

Buried doesn't always mean entirely.

It's a leap backwards, but not a massive one.

And then got stepped on the next night when HHH asked him what big move it was he hit to retain the title. That win didn't do nearly as much for Orton as you may be thinking.

And clean I may add.

I agree, but the faces are the ones that usually build the heels up, to where those heels soon become the top babyfaces.

You mean aside from being the #1 heel in the company?

Honestly Orton has been the most over heel for the past year except when he was out with injury.

All of them collectively as they have their feuds and matches. This isn't the 1980s anymore, and a one man show isn't a drawing show.

What I'm gathering from this thread is the ONLY way for Orton to get over and "get made" is to win at WrestleMania. Bullshit. If Orton comes out of the second half of this feud dominating he will be huge.

You have to remember that things are different now and WrestleMania is rarely the end of long-term feuds anymore.

Might I add it feels so weird being on the side of Xero & James Steel and against Loose Cannon after reading all those Kliq/Bret Hart threads.

I agreed with you on it not destroying Orton. But given the outcome and manner of it, nothing makes him look like a threat to HHH. This is my point.

Not even beating him cleanly for the title?

duh, of course it's collectively. With 3 brands and 3 shows, you'd be a moron to think one guy is going to get it done. My point was that Orton still is not on the level of those guys and his matches really aren't a draw without those guys on the other side. But he definately could be

So you don't think this takes anything at all away from Orton?

God, you people will find any reason to bitch about Triple H. It isn't 2003 anymore.

At this current point in time. Also, with regards to RAW tomorrow

That might have something to do with the fact he just isn't as good as those guys. Orton has improved 1000% since 04, but he isn't as good of a wrestler as any of the true main eventers.

lol, how ironic

you're right, this isn't 2003, yet the guy is still walking out of Mania with the belt.

So why put it off? If you're going to make the star, why not do it at the biggest show of the year? That's like having Austin job to HBK and winning the title at Judgement Day.

I'm not arguing your logic, I follow where you're coming from, just questioning the E's logic

I wouldnt even be that upset with Orton losing if it wasnt for history. HHH has proven time and time again that Orton should not make him look weak in any matter. HHH has beaten him on numerous ppvs. And the time that Orton actually did beat HHH for the titie, was when HHH already had 3 matches that night. Orton can only recover so many times from getting buried. Its becoming a pattern that whenever Orton gets built up, he will get knocked down.

He is still one of the best in the business and a draw, so what is there to complain about? Other than Evil Paul booking himself to win the main event because we all know Triple H really runs the show!

I agree that Orton winning would have been a positive, but this isn't the end of Orton's career or any chance of him being "the man" since I honestly don't believe Orton is talented enough to be "the man".

It is called being a good heel (now), or a shitty babyface (04).

No. Heels are in the buisness to lose.

Randy Orton has no more taken away from him than Andre had taken away from him after Wrestlemania 3...

or Savage after Wrestlemania 5...

or Flair after Wrestlemania 8...

or Yokozuna after Wrestlemania 9 & 10...

or Michaels after Wrestlemania 11 & 14...

or The Rock after Wrestlemania 15...

or Angle after Wrestlemania 19...

or Triple H after Wrestlemania 20, 21, & 22...

or Edge after Wrestlemania 24.

QFT

There's a world of diffrence between Austin at Wrestlemania XIV and Orton at Wrestlemania XXV.

That big difference is that Austin was a face Orton is a heel...

Heels lose on the big stage its the rule of the buisness.

I understand where you are coming from, but can we agree that Mania is the biggest PPV of the year?

They book Orton to win the Rumble, they book Orton to take out the McMahons. They book HHH to come back and avenge the McMahons.

To me, Orton has to come out looking like the winner, and that doesn't have to mean actually winning the match. But he should of at least been made to look above HHH on the biggest stage

And you're right, Mania does not end things anymore, but it's still Mania. And when they seemed intent on giving Orton a huge push, this match really could of helped progress that push on a big way. It hindered it....yet again, rather then helping it. That's all I'm saying

A. You agreed he got buried but then say he loses nothing from it. Ok.....

B. You're looking too deep into it. The main idea is if you're going to make the star do it on the big stage. Perhaps they could have built Orton up as a tweener or maybe teased the turn, I dk how they should have done it.

I would agree with that, but who was one of the first people to break that tradition of faces winning??? HHH in 2000. But even The Rock was booked better that year due to the McMahons screwing him over.

I just thought that should be isolated...

Big Bad Triple H hadn't won at Wrestlemania since 2003... yeah 6 years ago.

and yes, all you guys are correct in saying this isn't the end of Orton's career. But the bookers or whomever need to start getting off thier asses and start putting guys on the levels of HBK, HHH and Taker, because they won't be around for much longer.