Bret Who??
 

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...tman-Hart.html

Flair launches a new attack on Bret Hart.

Here we go

Flair is ridiculous.

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/a...90_852780a.jpg

Picture choice was awesome.

And let the Team Kliq vs Team Hart battle (part 384,384,583,568 and 7/8ths) begin!

Flair's right.

Flair is dead wrong.

Why?

I dont know man, but Flair has been saying some real stupid shit recently. This is just par for the course.

Hart has also faced off with some of those guys, and to be honest guess what? Hart is BIGGER than those guys. That's what you dont seem to get there, Ric.

Zen pops in with his Hart-on.

Zen has already made his first appearance, it shan't be long now.

Oh hey look, Xero posting immediately after me in a Hart related thread, simply in order to state the obvious to everyone else, that yes, I have indeed posted in another Hart related thread.

I have a stalker.

And Xero joins the fray. So far this is heating up to be the greatest battle yet.

Hey, it's the truth. If it's a non-Hart thread, you won't be posting in it. If it is, you will be. I could have made that post hours ago and you know it would have been true.

I've posted in non-Hart threads before. It's not my fault wrestling right now just isn't as interesting to me. Its hard to post about Ziggler or MVP, or maybe Jack Swagger.

bacl in school we used to call him
'bret "the titman" fart'

Bret Hart can be accused of a lot of things, but he was not a mid-carder and he is not a nobody.

Basically, Flair has been going after Bret unjustly now since about the year 2001. He's been ranting and raving and making himself come off like a silly old twat.

LOL

Seriously? lets see one was champion multiple times in the WWF and the other was champion multiple times in an organisation that was only on par with the WWF for a few years before falling flat on its arse and folding.

Yes lets compare the career culminations, one guys in debt and danger through multiple divorces (and living the gimmick) and is relegated to the "indies" to make cash for monthly payments to the ex wives. The other had a divorce but is comfortably well off, remarried and living in italy.

Yes i wonder who came out better at the end of their career. :roll:

I find flair entertaining but he just seems to try and stir the pot to get his name in headlines, just smacks of "hey im still here, attention please".

So basically your retort to Flair's comments basically boils down to "nuh-uh?"

Look, Bret was at the top of the WWF for maybe six years or so. And never in that time was he THE man in the company, let alone the business as a whole. For ten years before Bret made his way to the top of the business, Flair's only equal was Hogan. Bret had the good fortune to spring from the sperm of the owner of a wrestling promotion, and to be ready to handle a top spot due to a main event vacuum. I wouldn't call Bret Hart a nobody, but it's RIC FUCKING FLAIR talking here. Someone who could be a god to all of us snivelling pissants on TPWW could be a nobody in the eyes of Flair.

Oh and one more thing:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...ricflair11.jpg

WOOOOOOOOO!!!

The above post was full of shit, in every manner imaginable.

Funny, the same can be said about the post above mine.

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:shifty:

So another "nuh-uh" then. Let's go point by point then.

Was Bret Hart at the top for considerably less time than Flair?

Was Bret THE man during his time in the Main Event, or did he share his time largely with the likes of Hogan, Luger, Michaels, and the Undertaker?

Was Bret's position in wrestling not largely influenced by the family he came from, a promise by Vince McMahon to Stu Hart to "take care of his boys," and the fact that the WWF needed a new face at the top?

And does Ric Flair not have sufficently greater leeway to call someone a nobody than any of us?

Aside from that last one being subjective, tell me exactly which of these points is full of shit.

Okay, I'm a very loyal WWF/WWE/WWWF fan. I will be one of the first people to defend that company, however you really should give the NWA more credit for the groundbreaking stars and legends it produced. You shouldn't sell the NWA short.

On a bit of an unrelated tangent, While the company that was started by Jess McMahon has proved to last longer they wouldn't have been able to do it without the NWA, AWA, WCCW, WCW, ECW, pretty much every company except PWG.

Keep it clean, fellas. No shots below the belt.

True but it still doesnt take away from the fact that they were only in the limelight for a few years before falling apart. They obviously made their contributions though.

That's the history of every company.

What? Being on par with the competition for about 4 years then falling apart and having large chunks of the ip bought by the competition?

If Flair was such a draw, JCP would of never sold to Turner. Everybody looks at Flair peak 82-86 but no one want to look at how business was from 87-91. Those Steamboat/Flair matches did not draw big numbers.

Flair was not as big as Bret outside the US. Flair disappear in the 90's and he has HHH to think for saving his career/legacy. Which leads back to the Kliq vs. Bret Hart.

[QUOTE=Tedious;2644223]So another "nuh-uh" then. Let's go point by point then.

Of course, but who hasn't.? Flair is a decrepit old man still trying to pay off his debts and prostitiuting himself for money to get his kids out of their own problems.

Bret was the man when he was at the top. And he was at the top of the biggest wrestling company in the world for a longer time than Flair.

He got signed to the company because Vince was raiding everyone. Not only that, but Bret had the talent in the ring to get into the wwf no matter who was his father and his lineage. Pretty stupid assumption there dude.
Either way, lineage only goes so far, Bret worked his way to the top.

Flair seems lost. What he says doesnt even make sense anyways. He's faced off with old timers, big deal. So has Bret. In fact, Funk chose Bret for his retirement match due to his high respect for him, who he called the best in the business for that time.

There ya go.

And Bret is a decrepit old man sitting at home allowing bitterness and spite to feed on his soul. How this has any bearing on their status in wrestling is beyond me.

So he DIDN'T get shuffled back down into the midcard when Hogan returned? He DIDN'T engage in non ME feuds with Lawler and Michaels while Luger challenged Yokozuna? He DIDN'T have his big-ass crescendo of a cage match with Owen knocked out of a SummerSlam ME slot in favore of the Undertaker vs his impostor? He DIDN'T stand by and watch for the better part of a year while Diesel held the title?

Pretty weak argument seeing as how Flair was IN said company for barely two years back then.

Watch Bret's DVD some time and count how many times he admits he was ready to quit until he was given a better spot. Yeah, he worked and all, but if his family wasn't who they were, who knows if he would ever have been noticed.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/...er_byhobbs.JPG

Good God, look at him back then.

Clearly we have different measuring sticks for greatness, if you have to bring in Funk as your star witness.

Bret would've been great in MMA though. God MMA is amazing.

I know you're still butthurt over that MMA thread, but what does this have to do with ANYTHING???

He basically looks like Flair with black instead of blonde hair.

This post belongs in the MMA SUB-forum.

I now demand you move it there or else I'll totally ask someone to ban you.

So basically, according to Flair, anyone who isn't Shawn Michaels, HHH, himself, or Batista is a mid-carder or anything but main event.

I agree with tedious


WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

They're both legends in their own right.

Basing it on the length of careers is a little unfair though.

I think taking bumps for 40 years has caught up to Flair.

Also, I love the family shot, because we all know how much of a family man Ric Flair is...

senile old fart

Ric Flair is so great that he is the only former world champion in the whole history of the WWF/E that Vince McMahon happily released during a contract to freely go to the opposition.

Argue about anything else but that was a fact. Even some of the worst drawing champions of all time (Michaels, Diesel, Sid, etc) and some guys that Vince hated (Warrior, Savage, Sammartino, etc) never got that treatment.

Wow, Warrior in the same post with the names of Flair, Sammartino, Michaels...what in the hell is the world coming to?

Flair insists that Arn Anderson was also a draw :roll:... so basically all his close friends are draws

[QUOTE]Actually, Bret is fine right now. He's made his millions, didnt blow them, and is living a pretty happy life. Flair on the other hand.....you know how it is.



Bret was a big fish in a big pond. Flair was a big fish in a small pond. When Flair came up to the wwf, he was just another face along with the rest of the companies big names. In fact, Vince wanted Bret to defeat Flair because Flair dissapointed him as a draw, and as a performer during his run at the top.
You can have co-main events, and btw, even if Taker vs the imposter or Diesel were main eventing some cards, everyone knows who the fans mostly came to see. The thing about Bret that made him so valuable and great to the company was that even as a champ, he never held his nose up at people. He worked with everyone, because he wanted to make even the curtain jerkers look as credible as possible. That's smart, makes the roster look that much stronger. Unlike say, a guy like HBK, who basically wanted to hand pick his opponents, mostly all buddies.



There was a reason for that. He came in with a ton of hype and wasn't bringing it. Vince let the guy go basically after Hart took the title from him.


He said he didnt wanna be a cowboy and got that tossed, and he did some bitching about the Warrior and guys like that main eventing. So what did he do? Worked great matches and got better and better until the fans made him the main eventer he was supposed to be.
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/...er_byhobbs.JPG

Looks sorta like Flair except Flair looked like that his entire career.



Oh? You didnt notice Flair stating he wrestled the Funks as some sort of way to bash Bret? Because Funk and he did wrestle a few times, and if it's good for Flair, I thought it was good for everyone. Changing your tune now?

Chris Benoit had charisma too remember.

As for who Bret wrestled, does Flair say the same thing about Shawn Michaels since the only great workers he wrestled that Bret didn't are Angle and Jericho?

It sucks to be born like 25 years before Ric Flair. How old is Flair now by the way? 72?

I didn't feel the need to justify why Bret was not a midcarder because his track record speaks for itself. Bret did not make it to the top because of who his dad is. In fact, I barely recall Stu Hart being mentioned much during Bret's first few years in the company (unlike Orton, Rhodes and DiBiase whose dad's always get mentioned on a weekly basis). Bret Hart was undoubtedly THE man during his first two title reigns - he carried the company on his back during those reigns and was the star performer.

As much as I like Flair, his comments are ludicrous. The only main eventers that are nobodies in his eyes are the people he dislikes. Even you mentioned in the quote about how you wouldn't call Bret Hart a nobody.

i think the two should have a hart to hart and use a regulator so it doesn't flair up into a brawl :P

flair is notorious for pissing off the other wrestlers and telling them how crap they are in the ring

but to be honest as much as i love ric flair, you see one flair match you have seen them all, at least bret hart was willing to switch the formula a little

Hey Flair! watch king of the ring '93
 

After reading Flairs comments (see thread entitled "Bret Who?") I was fortunate to catch the King of the Ring 93 on Vintage Collection.

Crisp, realistic, making opponents look good, incredible workrate! that was Bret Hart during all three of his matches. I dare Flair and the rest of the bret hart haters to fault his performance on that night.

Hart took on three diffeent opponents and used three different strategies. He sustained legit injuries through out that night and continued to deliver with every move being textbook perfection.

Flair obviously has held a lot of titled and wrestled a lot of big names but flairs jealously is showing as he continues to go on tirades about Bret Hart.

Flair. SHUT THE FUCK UP

lol

Ric Flair just PMed me and said that he's read your thread and promises to shut the fuck up on all matters Bret Hart-related in the future.

ric flair lurks tpww? cool

hey ric, guess what, i fucked your daughter

flair is an egotist. Wont surprise me in the least if he crossrine's his name on this site :P

Bret Hart is my favorite wrestler of all time, so fuck you guys. All right, cya later.

Wait, I know what this thread is missing...












SHAWN FUCKING MICHAELS!


There, now this is a classic thread.

Oh yeah, Bret Hart is the greatest of all time. Nevermind that he didn't draw. That's apparently irrelevant.

He drew enough for WCW to pay him $3 million a year

To me, as a wrestling fan, that is completely irrelevant, you dork.

Ric Flair would try and say Paul Roma was a better worker than Bret Hart...

lol.

gross

Did you really need to give this its own thread, or could this have gone in the Bret Who thread? Seriously.

This is the Bret Who thread.

we need more bret hart threads. :)

No. We don't

Actually, There was a reason that Summerslam '92 had him and Bulldog headlining, over the WWF title match with Randy Savage, the Ultimate Warrior, and Ric Flair's interference.

It's the same reason why, despite the fact that Sting, one of Flair's biggest rivals, used the Scorpion Deathlock for years before, that the hold is called the Sharpshooter to this day.

Hart was a bigger draw internationally than most people.

I love Bret Hart. I do. But they headlined SummerSlam at WEMBLEY STADIUM because of The BRITISH Bulldog.

But hot damn, what a match that was. Flair couldn't pull that off.

Maybe that's what distracted you from learning how to spell back.

That, too. But it was Bret who told Vince that nothing could follow that match. To his credit, he was right.

Bret was just as popular as Bulldog. They were the two most over guys on the show and, with the title swich happening, made sense for it to be the main event. Plus Bret talked to Vince about it etc.

Bret was not as popular as Davey Boy Smith. It wasn't even close. Bret had a good percentage of fans but it wasn't even close. Smith's reaction blew away every single wrestler's I have ever heard live.

You reallyY think that that's the reason, and not because, I don't know, they were in BRITAIN and the BRITISH BULLDOG was his opponent?

And you really think that the reason it's primarily called the Sharpshooter has to do with Bret's drawing power? Not because, say, that name is more linked to WWE than the SD, which is primarily linked to NWA/WCW, and one of those companies was eaten up by the other?

And have you considered that Hart's international drawing power may have had something to do with him being a non-American performer who was extremely heavily marketed overseas?

As for that last part of your post, Lex Luger was heavily, and I do mean heavily marketed as the next all american hero in the USA of all places, and the fans still wanted Bret Hart. You can be heavily marketed and yet not cause a dent in the minds of people...they dont have to love you. They did with Bret. The credit goes to him.

Bret was BIG everywhere. And by big I mean huge.

And I'm sure Lanny Poffo drew enough for WCW to pay him 6 figures for years without ever appearing on television? Not sure if the "they paid him alot of money" card is the path I would take here.

Also, that 3 million a year was sure worth it in retrospect, wasn't it?

What harm did it actually cause WCW to pay Bret Hart that amount? None. WCW were willing to pay him that much, you can't blame Bret for getting a good deal. It wasn't his fault that Goldberg ended his career either.

Saying that Bret Hart never drew is a lousy path to go down in order to slag him off. He drew great numbers internationally and did decent enough domestically.

And what's with the Lanny Poffo example? Fuck's sake almost everybody in WCW was on a 6 figure salary. Bret was earning 6 times the amount that Ric Flair was earning - he wouldn't have been earning so much if he wasn't of value.

Was just pointing out that I wouldn't measure his greatness on how much WCW was willing to pay for him considering that they were infamous for wasting a seemingly infinite supply of money.

Flair is known for judging a wrestler's value based on how much money they drew. In Flair's eyes Bret is nobody when compared to guys like Hogan, Savage, and even Cena. Flair has been quoted putting Hogan even over himself. Bret doesn't compare in money making. The whole "Bret was international" thing keeps being brought up. Do you think guys like Hogan were marketed solely in America? Bret doesn't measure up in drawing value.

Was he a really great wrestler? Yes. But there's more to it than that when considering some of the greatest of all time.

You're grossly underselling how Flair and Hogan happen to be friends, so Flair has no problem putting Hogan over. Look up the Off The Record interview in 2004 for proof of that. Flair only puts down people and their drawing ability to those he doesn't like. Funny how Bret was never a draw because he was part of the 'WWE machine', yet all his other buddies are draws when part of said machine.

I'll say this again, I am a huge fan of Flair's, but he does come across as a tit for making personal digs at him which are false and yet he tries to back it up by listing a load of wrestlers he's faced who don't even come close to the accomplishments Bret made. Seriously, Jerry Briscoe??

Flair did have a decent 2 year run from '91-'93 in WWE, but what did he do when he appeared on WWWF cards in the mid '70's?? Oh yeah, he was wrestling Pete Sanchez in curtain jerking bouts.

lol @ Flair comparing his painfully redundant career to the greatest to have ever graced the ring.

He was worth the money, it's nobodies fault but the bookers down there who ran that company into the ground. The only good things Bret did down there were ideas that came from his own mind, not theirs.

The wcw fucked up. Vince even said that they would. How you dont know how to use the guy after what went down at SS is mind boggling.

How do you fuck that up?

First, both Flair and Bret were both tremendous wrestlers.

Second, Flair and Bret need to stop taking shots at each other in the media.

They were different wrestlers from different eras that did not mesh very well, Ric went out nearly every night for the NWA and wrestled 60 minute matches, all of which were called in the ring. Bret wrestled more diverse oppenents, having differnet matches that were more scripted. There are arguments for both sides.

Really sad how things are going.

Best post in this entire thread (so far). Both were great wrestlers and both contributed a lot to where ever they wrestled. Bret Hart made wrestling huge during the Canada vs USA storyline where both countries literally were angry at each other because of wrestling on Mondays. While Ric Flair basically on every show provided entertainment and great wrestling no matter where he wrestled or which federation he worked for.

I like them both too, its a shame that their pride and egos won't allow them to get past this stupid war of words. I think Bret was a better wrestler, but Flair has had a more impressive career and is a better worker in certain aspects. Bret Hart is one of the best storytellers we've ever seen. Some might call his style boring, but that is because he used a more realistic style and was not afraid to apply a subtle element to further the story in the match. He's certainly had some amazing matches with some of the best of his era. Who knows how much more he would have had for us if not for Goldberg's career ending kick?

As I mentioned, Ric Flair has had a more impressive career. He's also had some classic matches with the best of his era and some good ones with stars one or two generations after. I can't buy into the statement that Ric Flair was never a draw. Why would he have been champ so many times if he was never a draw? Why would Vince have brought him into the WWF if he was never a draw? Why is the robe that he wore to Wrestlemania XXIV in the Smithsonian Institute if he was never a draw? Why are marks dropping upwards of $150 dollars for his autograph if he was never a draw? Ric Flair is an institution. He may have never had the instant mainstream appeal of Hulk Hogan, but his main focus was the wrestling business rather than the entertainment business and his staying power eventually established him as a flagship of the business, despite lacking the McMahon media juggernaut. While Bret was a better overall worker, Flair has the edge in the aspect making his opponents look good and being able to have a good match with anyone. Bret could have a good match with most people, but not everyone, he did know how to make his opponents look good when he could though. Flair, unlike Bret, has made a lot of careers by trying to help the young guys succeed. Steamboat, Sting, Barry Whindam and Bret Hart to name a few. Both men used a certain style where certain moves were expected, once you've seen enough of their work, so anyone who lacked respect for their genuine abilities would call them boring. Flair worked the way he did because he was wrestling in front of a crowd for an hour 6 days a week and this was before internet and cable, so no one going to notice if they thought Flair did to many chops in a match. Bret Hart had to be able to produce a decent match in 10-15 minutes and used the moves the crowd knew him for, as do all WWE employees. Today's spoiled internet smarks might not like either one of these guys if they came out today.

Ric Flair is one of the my favorite wrestlers of all time and Bret Hart is one that I consider to be great in his own right. Its a shame that Bret will come right back to fire shots at Flair and they'll go back and forth on radio shows for a couple weeks and then people will stop paying attention. Both men are better than that and should learn to respect each other and their accomplishments.

I'm so proud of you guys right now.

Page 3 of a Bret Hart thread and no mention of 'Montre...'

Ooops. Nearly did it.

What has ric flair done in the last 2 decades to make anyone care?

(no, really,,show me matches -link me cus I wanna see what you see in Saggy tits

It's ironic that the guy who's won the most titles (which by the way means jack imho especially nowadays) doesn't even know what it takes to be a truly great wrestler. He has a smaller arsenal of moves than Cena does for crying out loud when ya think about that's pretty sad. He probly believes deep down inside that he's carried any guy that he has ever associated with. I'd be glad if Trips broke the record but I'm afraid that won't happen but there's always a chance Edge will. Don't get me wrong if think Flair was good but nowhere near the level that he accomplished.

He was given titles. He never won shit. It's a work remember. Arsenal of moves don't mean shit either. I've seen Samoa Joe use more moves than Bret Hart did in 10 years and he isn't close to being as good as Bret on Bret's worst day.

it's sad that this is even an argument...flair took an absolutely ridiculous shot at bret and i wish they would stop going back and forth. i love both of these guys as wrestlers they've had some of my favorite matches with some great guys(henning,steamboat,savage michaels etc) but flair was wrong..he allows his dislike for bret to make him say crap like he was a nobody...bret was big but in a different way in a different time....flair ruled in a time when a guy could hold a belt for 2 years no problem...bret came in a time when people wanted to see new faces. and bret being "pushed down" was just him being a victim to vince really trying hard to push up as many new faces as possible(i.e the new generation) and the wwf/wwe hasnt been a one man show ever since hogan...the times have changed. in regards to bret not being one of the greats cause he didnt draw is ridiculous....guess who else didnt draw? kinda sounds like shawn? shawn was the leader during the year wwf got completely destroyed in money by WCW(not a shawn basher im a huge fan just facts) but that doesnt mean he isnt one of the greats...forget the fact that hes still wrestling. oh and someone said hogan was flairs only equal..WRONG....flair was nowhere NEAR hogans drawing power. you count how many times flair was on daytime tv compared to hogan..don't worry i'll wait..