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MLB 2009-2010 Off Season Thread
<font color=goldenrod>YES!!! THE 2009 SEASON IS OVER!!! :cool:
Well then, now that I've made the thread, may as well use it when we get around to discussing offseason matters. 15 days until free agency. :shifty: C'monnnnnn Matt Holliday</font> |
YANKEES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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NL ROY should be Happ
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DODGERS
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Winter begins. :(
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<font color=goldenrod>Haven't ROY already been decided? Pretty sure Happ and Beckham won it.</font>
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I thought they didn't come out until after the World Series like the rest of the awards.
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Was listening to Mike & Mike this morning and Buster Olney was saying that small market teams are going to try to save money this offseason by simply releasing players instead of giving them arbitration. So what we're going to have are a bunch of 24-26 year old free agents.
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<font color=goldenrod>Holliday and Cardinals discussing a 6-year, $96 million deal
But the sense is that Boras will convince him to go on the market and sign with whoever gives him that guaranteed 7th year (because invariably some team WILL offer it). Holliday turns 30 in December. If the Mets get him, a 7-year deal might start looking really bad once he hits 35/36 and is playing the spacious left field at Citi...but they kinda are in a position of need because I can't see them contending next year without a true power bat in ADDITION to Wright getting his power back.</font> |
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Well as most are saying, I believe Matsui's last Yankee game was last night. What a way to go out though. He may sign with Seattle to play with his little buddy.
Damon is back. Our pitching really worries me....again. Obviously we got AJ and CC, but after that it's like :wtf: I think Pettite got another good season left in him. I dunno what Wang will be. Joba and Hugues are ???? as Starters. If we do anything this year, it will be for a pitcher and an outfielder. |
I think if anything, The Phillies are in great shape. I easily can see them making a run for the Series for the next 3-4 years
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Plus if Mo has a great 2010 he might decide to keep going...and Jeter's deal ends after 2010 and he has many great years left in him so he could charge the Yanks whatever he wanted. That beiung said, Holliday has said the Yanks are his top choice, with the Mets being second. So if anything I could see the Yanks being used as a means of getting the Mets to pony up a 7th year.</font> |
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Doc, AJ came here and got a ring...think about it
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and I thought about Roy. Could they even afford him. That would be really sick to have AJ, CC and Roy. Now he kind of fell off a little bit at the end of last year, so it will be interesting to see if his value might of fallen a little. He'll still get a ridiculous contract from someone though. So is Predro done on the Phils? |
<font color=goldenrod>Funny I mentioned Mark Teahen in that other post...cause we now already have the FIRST TRADE OF THE OFFSEASON:
Mark Teahen to the White Sox for Chris Getz and Josh Fields Kenny Williams is high</font> |
I'd guess Pedro is done with the Phillies, probably done in general
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I'm hoping the Yankees rotation is just CC-AJ-Andy-Joba-Hughes. Then resigning Gaudin and restructuring Wang's contract if he's gonna miss time from the injury. Those five along with Gaudin, Wang, Kennedy and others from the minors (McAllister) should be enough depth. Maybe sign a cheap starter that could eat up some innings/pitch out of the pen.
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Tigers are going to have a real interesting offseason. Rumors persist that Polanco is gone and we are going to be starting Sizemore at Second base. Carlos Guillen is going to be the starting left fielder :(. It's just going to be a mess
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Dodgers declined a 10 mil option on Garland. Good.
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is Carl Crawford available this year? I thought they mentioned him being available on Mike and Mike
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I think Matsui is best served going back to Japan. He'll have left America at the top and will get the national hero treatment back home. And that should equate to some $$$ that he might not see here.
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The talk has stirred up again about where you put Mariano and Jeter on the list of all time Yankees. I've heard Rivera as high as 4th in front of Mantle and Berra.
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definately in the top 10 I would put them both. Are we counting A-Rod yet? Pettite?
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There is talk that the Rays might not pick him up at all and he would become a free agent. He would make a great splash in Detroit, but there is no way the Tigers will pick him up for the type of money that he wants
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Dimaggio
Gehrig Ruth Jeter Mantle Berra Rivera Munson Reggie Mattingly IMHO |
Red Sox reportedly get Jeremy Hermida.
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Well that could mean adios to Rocco. Or could be the plan for LF if they don't resign Bay.
I like Hermida, he hasn't panned out yet but hes only 26. I think he can thrive in Fenway with that RF. Good trade for the Sox. |
Exactly what I think, but don't think they'll settle for Hermida in left. I'd say the Red Sox wind up with at least one of Jason Bay, Matt Holliday, Prince Fielder, and Adrian Gonzalez.
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Bobby Abreu takes a deal with the Angels. 2-years, $19 mil.
White Sox get Mark Teahen from the Royals for Chris Getz and Josh Fields. White Sox resign Mark Kotsay. Braves sign Scott Proctor. And, IMO, the big opening day news for the offseason. The Rays trade Akinori Iwamura to the Pirates for Jesse Chavez. |
As far as the Yankees are concerned. Here's what I want for next season/needs to be addressed.
1. Retain Matsui for 1-year. Let's face it, the man did major damage in the DH hole this year (last night being a perfect example.) But as we all know that his knees are shot to shit and the Yankees wanna rotate out the DH spot to the vets. 2. The outfield. Johnny Damon got a great bat but a horrible glove. He wants to come back, but I'd really sit back and think about 1 more year with him. Keep Swisher in RF, and we know he's doing extra credit this offseason with Long and Eiland. So that's a plus. CF is the tricky part. Do we go with Gardbrera another season, go in house, or aquire from trade/free agency. 3. Starting pitching. 1 & 2 are set. But I'd like 2 to get his act together during the offseason. Again, we play the waiting game with Pettite. Same contract as this year if he wants back in. I'd let Joba, Hughes, Wang, Gaudin, and Kennedy fight for the 4 and 5 spots. Not much in the market for starting pitchers. Lackey, Garland, Lee, and Wolf. But all eyes are on Aroldis Chapman. |
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Can move Youk to 3rd for good, and you can move Lowell and Ortiz for one more season at DH. |
Somehow, I see Aroldis Chapman as a huge bust. The next Jose Contreras. He's a thrower, but doesn't know how to actually pitch.
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The stats he's put up in the league he was in really weren't even impressive. Apparently all he has is a big fastball, with no secondary pitches and no control.
Doesn't exactly intrigue me too much. |
And one of the big teams is going to throw 50+ million at him. I pray to god it's not my favorite Major League Baseball organization.
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The whole Gardner/Cabrera thing has worked out pretty well. I think they stick with that for CF and maybe get Jackson involved later in the year. I wouldn't mind having Matsui back if its in a role similar to this year and maybe a little reduced. He could be the DH except for days when Posada needs a day off from catching. I'm not sure who else they'd want to give DH time to besides Posada, Damon if he's back or maybe A-Rod. |
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The big question is what to do with the closer since Papelbon has been shaky lately (mostly due to having a big mouth) while Bard isn't 100% ready to take over. |
Papelbon is still a top 3 closer in the league. A shaky season for him is an above average season for everyone else.
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He's more shaky because he relies too much on the fastball and not because he sucks. I think NESN basically said after his injury, he lost confidence in his other pitches and just kept relying on the fastball.
That was the main reason why Bard was put as set-up man as a wake-up call for him to be better since he has a lot of potential to be better. |
And we have our first drug citation of the off season...Ladies and Gentleman please give a warm welcome to our NA meeting.....
Tim Lincecum :lol: |
Totally not surprised this guy was caught with a bag of pot.
http://upperdeckblog.com/wp-content/...ncecum-ap2.jpg |
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I'm a little bit worried about pitching. Halladay is going to be awesome for us. But, think about it this is a man who is in the same league as the Yankees. So you know Toronto is gonna ask for the moon for him. He's just not worth all the people we'd have to hand over to Toronto for him. I don't think Wang is done. If we can get the 2007 Wang we're in good shape. Even in 2008 he was still 8-2 despite getting injured. I'm willing to bet his 2010 will be better. Depending on what is being asked I might take a flier on Lackey. He's a good pitcher. |
I still think if Andy comes back we are pretty much set. Unless they take a flier on a high-risk/high-reward type guy.
I mean CC-AJ-Andy-Joba-Hughes is solid I think. We have the top 3 guys that pretty much won us the WS this year along with the potential of both Joba and Hughes. Joba will be let loose and not have to deal with all the Joba rules stuff since he'll be able to pitch a full season. I know people were disappointed in what Joba did this year but I'm really looking forward to what he can do next year without all the restrictions and pitch and inning limits. Those five guys, along with Wang (depending on what happens with him), Gaudin, Aceves, Kennedy, etc...gives them enough depth to handle Hughes' innings limit. The Yankees really don't need a big pitcher like Lackey. |
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Bay had said he'dlike to play for Toronto, that was @ a year ago. Wonder if that is still an option for the Jays.
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Chone Figgins? wtf? That's not happening. An injured Damon is better then Chone Figgins
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<font color=goldenrod>Brewers get: OF Carlos Gomez
Twins get: SS J.J. Hardy --- 2 days into the off-season and that's now three arbitration-eligible players traded.</font> |
<font color=goldenrod>Actually, with that move...Deolis Guerra is now the only player left with the Twins from the Johan trade. Damn.</font>
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Both teams just plugged each other's holes (that's what she said). Span will probably move to center and Delmon Young will go back to being a starter.
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The Yankees are gonna let Damon go and get Holliday - not that they have any real need for him
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Joba's strikeout rate dropped, his hit rate jumped, and rumors of injury were scattered. I wouldn't be so sure about him |
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He had 7 starts and if you take out one where he just got bombed he had a 3.5 ERA in the others. Obviously a really small sample size but still. |
If Joba begins next season in the rotation and fails, his career might as well be over. It's a surefire way to render his confidence nonexistent. Keep the guy in the pen, and groom him to be Rivera's successor.
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<font color=goldenrod>I don't think that drop will badly diminish Holliday's value. Mistakes happen.</font>
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It was one play. I wouldn't call him a bad outfielder over one play.
He is a great player, with speed, athleticism, and would be a great guy on a number of teams this off season. Do I think he is going to get the Teixeira money that boras claims his worth? No not even close. Closer to 6 years worth 120, so the Beltran contract. I hope the Mets pursue him and land him, but obviously its going to take more than him to fix my beloved Metropolitans. But thats an entire conversation in itself so I'll hold off on my offseason plans on them for now. But Vito I'm really curious to see your thoughts on how you would handle the offseason for the Mets. |
<font color=goldenrod>I was actually planning on posting something about that tonight.</font> :y:
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Sounds good. I hope to have mine up sometime this weekend.
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anybody that's played outfield from High school baseball or beyond knows that catch Holliday missed is one of the hardest catches to make. With those line drives straight at you, you have like 1 second to think and the ball can carry and move at you at the last milisecond. So it's definately not reason for concern. It happens
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Johnny Damon: Looks like Jesus, acts like Judas, throws like Mary.
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As for the Mets:
As a Met fan myself, I wanna blow this team up and start over. I'd LOVE to trade Jose Reyes but he has no value after the season long injury he had. Ples, a lot of teams probably share my personal opinion of the guy: he's an immature head case. Talent can't fix immaturity and stupidity, so we're stuck with him. Though there are pieces to work with here: C: Thole/Santos 1B: 2B: Castillo 3B: Wright SS: Reyes LF: CF: Beltran RF: Francoeur SP: Santana SP: SP: Perez SP: SP: Pelfrey I'm not sold on Murphy. For me, let him earn a spot at 1st this year. If Delgado won't come back in for a fair price with incentives (I don't believe he will), bring in a Nick Johnson and have them platoon/compete for a job. With Nick's injury history it won't be long before Murphy plays anyways. Left Field is where you spend your money. Go get Holliday. He went to the AL and was mediocre. I think he's an NL guy at heart. Get him here. At which point, your lineup looks like: Reyes Castillo Holliday Beltran Wright Francoeur Murphy/Johnson Thole/Santos There's a more complete, less power reliant lineup you need in Citi Field. Pitching is another place I'd spend at. Call the Royals, can Gil Meche be had? He'd be a good number 2 starter in the NL. I'm sure given his contract situation, a couple of decent prospects would do the job. If not, how about Brett Myers? The Phillies kept screwing with him (starting and then closing and then relieving again) and apparently he didn't like it. Will he come here? I'd love Lackey, but his injury history scares me. If the price is right, sure, but he hasn't made a full season of starts since 07. Bring back John Maine, high risk high reward, but you also have Misch, and anyone else you want to take a flier on as your number 4. Mike Pelfrey is a number 5 start at best. I don't care how good his sinker is, no one swings at it because he's behind in the count all the time. So hypothetically, you have: Santana Meche Perez Maine/Misch/whomever Pelfrey And now you have a complete club that can run, hit for power, play defense amd pitch |
<font color=goldenrod>I don't think Reyes is really an immature headcase. And even if you wanted to classify him as that, the fact is he isn't being traded and, if healthy, he is a top 10 player in the league.
Health is obviously a HUGE concern for the Mets. The 2008 disaster must have set some sort of record for injuries. The fact is if you get totally healthy years from Wright, Beltran, Reyes, and Santana...that alone should improve the Mets record. That being said, some major changes must be made. The way I see it, there are two primary concerns for the Mets - getting a power bat in the lineup and getting a #2 starter. Really, I don't even know if I could pick between those two needs, because there are sound arguments both ways. You could point at the power troubles last year, but I find it hard to believe that David Wright's power numbers aren't going to be better...he was trying too hard to abandon his power to adjust to Citi Field, and Beltran's HRs should go up with a full year as well. But then from the pitching point of view you can say Pelfrey is due to bounce back (traditionally pitchers struggle the first year after they reach over 200 innings, which he went through already) and that would be key. The Wilpons told Omar that he would have all the financial help he needs...but I'll believe it when I see it. In a town with the Yankees, having all the financial help you need would mean abandoning any sort of budget and going all out to get anybody you think would make your team better. I would feel unbelievably good about this team if they were to sign Matt Holliday AND John Lackey...but I realistically can't see it happening. According to Cot's Baseball Contracts, the payroll for 2010 right now is about $92 million (as opposed to nearly $150 million this year)...but that number doesn't factor in the raises some guys will be getting in arbitration, etc. So...I really don't even know how they are going to approach this. <b>Hitting:</b> If the core is back and healthy then Wright, Beltran, and Reyes is incredible. Add a guaranteed power bat and now we're talking. But whether they get one or not...I want them to get a righty first baseman to platoon with Murph (I love Murph, but I don't want to totally bestow the 2010 job to him...get a cheap option like Troy Glaus or something). I love Delgado, but I think it's time for both sides to move on and let him DH somewhere. Also although Castillo had a good year, if any team is willing to take him I think you have to do it and sign Orlando Hudson. They'll also probably get a 1 year deal for a catcher since they want Thole to start in AAA and don't view Santos as an everyday guy. Also hope to see continued development from Jeff Francoeur. <b>Rotation:</b> Johan's had this bone chip surgery before supposedly and he said he'll be fine...he'd better because without him, the Mets go nowhere. I'd dump Perez but the only way you could get rid of him is by taking in an equally bad (or worse) contract. Maine is solid enough to find a spot, and I hope maybe Niese can get a shot. But regardless, they need someone else. I'd love Lackey...but if they get Holliday I don't see him in the plans. Marquis is interested in the Mets but he just SCREAMS contract year...so I dunno. I'm guessing we'll be hearing a lot about fringe guys like Jon Garland in the future, maybe even gambles like Erik Bedard. <b>Bullpen:</b> K-Rod is obviously the closer, like him or not. Feliciano will be back and has been fantastic, I just hope his arm doesn't fall off after breaking the Mets' single season games record 2 years in a row. Green will probably back which could be good if his new delivery holds up for an entire season. Stokes is serviceable. I see Parnell sticking in the bullpen until he develops another pitch. That being said, they still need another arm or two. They declined J.J. Putz option (rightfully so) but unless a team comes knocking on the door for him to get a chance at closing, I'd be more than interested in bringing him back on an incentive-laden deal (he's expressed interest in it)...it'd give the Mets a chance to let that deal pay dividends. Plus there really aren't that many good releivers on the market. <b>Bench:</b> Omir Santos is good but again, not sure he's a full-time catcher. Alex Cora will likely be back...which I don't mind, he's a good filler guy that got exposed last year from too much playing time. Plus he is good in the clubhouse...I just hope they don't let their emotions get in the way and give him a 2-year deal ala Marlon Anderson and Julio Franco. Cory Sullivan is probably the reserve outfielder, which is fine with me. Not sure about Tatis, I hope the Mets aren't blinded by his hot streak in September...cause he grounded into like 4383482 DPs the rest of the year.</font> |
I would pick up Holliday once his value goes down significantly. I mean if Holliday wants a 3 maybe a 4 year deal I'd consider it but 6 or 7 is way to long for the guy. And JJ Hardy was all ready traded? Judging by the Red Sox some what need at Short Stop I would have thought the Red Sox would have at least tried to trade for him.
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While I agree that Reyes isn't getting traded, I think we're at the point where if someone calls and asks about him that you have to listen. To me, there's just too many instances where the guy obviously didn't have his head in the game and made complete boneheaded plays for me not to wonder. I won't start with the whole glove on the ground incident. The more and more I see of David Wright, the more I see a guy who can do anything on a diamond but is not a leader. Sure, he says all the right things and conducts properly but I don't know what's missing. He's essentially Carlos Beltran, a guy who can do anything on a diamond but not a leader. If its not him and not Beltran and certainly not Reyes, where's the leadership coming from on this team? Onto more tangible things: Guys like Garland don't fit here. The Mets didn't fail last year because of a taxed bullpen as in previous years, they failed due to injuries and suspect starting pitching. Marquis is decent, but meh. As you said, a number 2 starter is needed. Not someone just to fill out the end of the rotation. The biggest issue is the Mets are locked up in key spots. Yeah, Hudson is an upgrade, but who takes Castillo's contract without us paying most of that deal? Yeah, Murphy can play 1st, but there needs to be a better glove there and we know that defense isnt really Murphy's thing. Admittedly, he wasn't awful at first but is still learning the position. There's talent in the free agent market but how much of it really fits? I don't see Bay leaving and coming to the NL again and Holliday is probably going to the higest bidder. In my opinion, the team is very broken and there arent a whole lot of ways to fix it. More likely than not, the team is going to have to take on some bad contracts on high risk high reward guys to possibly improve. |
<font color=goldenrod>I think Wright is a leader, whatever that really means. What is a leader but a guy you can count on to consistently produce and be the guy the media usually talks to after games? That's what Wright does. Wright still put up respectable numbers in 2009 despite developing somewhat of a strikeout problem...I think he'll be fine. He's the face of the team.
Actually I think a team might be willing to take on all (or the vast majority of) Castillo's deal, at least that's the sense I'm getting. He was one of the few Mets to stay on the field this year and he had decent numbers. Whether or not the Mets actually make a move though I have no idea. The Mets' system apparently isn't as barren as I thought it was...in fact most people feel they could pull off a trade for a big name player if they really wanted to. For instance, Adrian Gonzalez is ridiculously affordable for the next 2 years but a lot of people around baseball think he will be traded before the season starts. Could you imagine getting him AND getting a power bat in LF? Something like SS Reyes 2B Castillo/Hudson 3B Wright 1B Gonzalez LF Holliday CF Beltran RF Francoeur C Santos/Thole Given the cheapness of Gonzo's contract, it's not as implausible as it sounds. His and Beltran's deals both run out after 2011 so you let Beltran go and then give Gonzo the big money. I dunno. But even in that scenario, you'd probably have to part with Pelfrey or Maine to get Gonzo so you still have at least 2 holes to fill in the rotation, plus you are still lacking another bullpen arm. An amazing lineup like that could carry the Mets for the long haul into the postseason, but as we all know when it comes to playoff time...pitching wins championships. So...it's safe to say the Mets are in a tough spot. They are heading into the 2nd year of a new stadium, ticket prices have gone down but are still quite expensive...they have to sell to their fans that they are trying to win, and they have many holes to fill. Fixing it going to involve spending money and trading away some prospects. The Mets' fanbase is NOT going to want to wait to see if all of their prospects actually pan out. They want to win now. Is it shortsighted? To an extent, yes...and I don't agree with it. But that's the way it goes in NY. I'll part with SOME prospects but only for a proven commodity. The Phillies are gonna be a tough team to top for years to come...especially since they are beginning to remind me of the Braves when they won the division every year in that every player they pick up turns to gold.</font> |
Fuck, Manny is back
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What a difference a year makes in Mannywood.
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I know, right.
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As a Yankee fan, I hope the Red Sox sign Holliday. The guy was horrible in Oakland, moved to the NL and batted behind Pujols and inflated the stats.
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I would like to have Matt Holliday.
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Well it'd make sense for you, you're in the NL. Sandwich him between Utley and Howard
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Or Howard and Werth
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But, if the Red Sox don't get Bay back. I would be happy if the Yankees got him instead of Holliday. |
Bay has already proven he can play in a big city.
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<font color=goldenrod>There would be nowhere for Holliday to play in Philly. Either him or Ibanez would have to end up in right field, and then Jayson Werth would be out of a job. So it's not gonna happen...thank fuck.</font>
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Yeah, as awesome as Victorino can be he is one of the dumbest baseball players today. Just makes stupid baserunning mistakes constantly.
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<font color=goldenrod>I think my biggest feeling of hope for the Yanks NOT signing Holliday would be that Damon right now is the perfect #2 hitter for them...and it would be a good idea to bring him back.
Obv they could always sign Holliday AND bring back Damon, but then Johnny would be reduced to DH duty and I'm pretty sure they want to continue easing Posada into that role. Unless they moved Johnny or Holliday to RF which would be stupid. If they do get Holliday though, just let them hold onto the 2010 trophy cause that's prolly where it'd end up anyway. :o Seriously though, as soon as the Yanks back down from Holliday, my hope for the Mets getting him will skyrocket. Can't wait for free agency to start.</font> |
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You can probably get more in return for Werth, but I'd rather keep him.
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There is no way the Phillies get Holliday though. |
How can anyone aside from Philly fans like Shane Victorino. That guy is such a little weasel. Hate him
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But, if by chance we do get Holliday. As much of a Johnny Damon fan I am I would much rather go after Lackey. Because unless Pettite comes back we've seriously got 3 question marks on our starting pitching. Wang? Can he go back to the way that he was pitching before his injury? Joba? Is he ready to be a starter yet? Hughes? Aceves? Kennedy? Gaudin? So if we get anyone with Holliday I hope they realize they need to do one thing or both. 1. Trade for a competitive starter. And or......... 2. Get John Lackey during the offseason. |
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He looks like A-rod.
Or michael jackson. |
Phillies decline option on Pedro Feliz.
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There is a possible trade between Toronto and the D-backs.
Chris Snyder for Lyle Overbay. Right now the trade talks are on hold though. |
Toronto backed off. They heard about Snyder's surgically repaired neck.
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Really? I had just heard that the trade talk was put on hold. Which brings me wonder I wonder if Lyle Overbay will be traded for someone else.
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Like I said, if they are intent on going balls out next year I'd LOVE for them to trade for Adrian Gonzalez in addition to getting a #2 starter and probably an extra bat, but I can't see it ALL getting accomplished.</font> |
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Realize that the Red Sox may be in on this too. And if they actually give up Clay or Bard in a package I regret to inform you that you may not have the prospects to top that. |
According to early indications, Padres want the trade to be mainly high-level prospects and not that much in terms of MLB players. Padres also want to cut their team salary more than match up salaries.
http://www.nesn.com/2009/11/adrian-g...ox-lineup.html |
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