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Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon
(Post 4748769)
Falcon:
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This whole section is conjecture or 'fan canon'. And that's fine. But my analysis requires no such speculation or reinterpretation of events. I am using the definition of Mary Sue to call a spade a spade.
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Selling Scrap:
She had to have a lot of skills to manage to scrap enough stuff from a dangerous downed Super Destroyer. Maybe she didn't know what her skills were from the Force but she had to have something guide her in that dangerous profession.
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This is more speculation. I do not see what is so difficult about accepting that Rey was written way OP.
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We don't know the length of Kylo Ren's training in the force.
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We know he
received training to begin with.
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He was acting like a child in many scenes. He was shot in the chest, fought Finn with the lightsaber.
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I acknowledged these potential disadvantages in my write-up and still conclude beating him so clean is a long shot.
Retroactive comparison: Literally everybody hated how Darth Maul was beaten. The backlash was so loud and sustained for years that he was resurrected in the EU and being that Clone Wars is the only surviving SW extended media before the big buyout - he survival is canon.
Nobody, absolutely nobody ever, speculated how much training Maul had to lose so stupidly. But here we are entertaining Kylo's shortcomings while dreaming up explanations for Rey's abilities.
Me thinks it would be easier to say she was an OP character.
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There is also the point that he was force weakened by his actions of killing Han Solo.
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'Force weakened'? What is that, what are you saying here?
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The action which was the reverse of what Snoke said (Either Snoke lied to him or he was wrong.) He was not at his best to say the very least. He also didn't want to harm her so he was taking it easy on her. He said "you need training." He was acting like Vader to Luke before he sliced off the hand in Empire after giving up at the time to seduce Luke. He was way off his game and was trying to bring her into the Darkside.
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Conjecture, conjecture, speculation, theories, etc.
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He lost the fight more than Rey won it.
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This is hilariously absurd spin control.
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Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead
(Post 4748777)
She has a clearly way more rough upbringing than Luke as well, where she would have had to use the force without knowing it on a way more consistant basis. Compared to Rey, Luke was coddled, lapping it up on the farm with Owen and Beru.
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And Anakin was a full blown slave. Still wasn't as OP as Rey in any movie.
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I dunno, I think they were trying to show that she is just mad fucking powerful and beyond anything that has been seen.
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This is possible. But to speculate this is to accept that she is indeed a Mary Sue; we're just adding 'by design'. And I'm open to that, it's just the wacky attempts at rejecting premise one.
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And Kylo is not supposed to be a badass yet. He's no a disciplined powerhouse yet, and there's lots of holes in his game. He's kind of a spoiled rotten, whiney dickhead and I like that about him. He's not seasoned enough to be Darth Vader. He's just a child, it wouldn't make sense for him to be calculated.
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I have already entertained these traits.
He should not lose clean to somebody who picked up a lightsaber that same day.
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I just thought it was super dope, anything you can argue as bad was over shadowed by the sheer fun of it.-
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Whoa whoa, hold the presses.
Wasn't anybody talking about bad or good. This is why I prefaced all of that text with how much I like Rey, action girls in general, and don't even mind Mary Sue type characters. I am not slamming Rey or the movie.
Technically speaking, with the established 'rules' of the SW universe, with past and current characters to compare to, with the established definition of Mary Sue characters - I am saying objectively that Rey is a Mary Sue. Just like Neo. Just like Batman. Just like Alice from the RE movies. This is not 'bad'. It is what it is.
