The WWF in 1991
 

So, this week, SCG Radio returns with the first episode of a mini-series covering 1991 in the WWF, and I thought it might be worth starting a thread and get some talk going about what was an insane year in the WWF's history.

In this first part, we discuss the absolute disaster that was the Sgt. Slaughter push, leading to and through the Royal Rumble, the shocking decision to put the World Title on him, and the feud with Hulk Hogan. Discussing all the media fallout, the promos, the presentation of the angle as well as backstage notes on feelings behind-the-scenes, the show breaks down Vince McMahon's terrible decision to exploit the Persian Gulf War so shamelessly. Check it out and let us know your thoughts - I'm particularly interested in the long-term fans take on how you viewed the Slaughter push as it happened.

https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/r9ek...rt_1A9ki0h.mp3

That’s my journey to and from work sorted.

As always, appreciate the podcasts. Tremendous work. Hope things are holding up as steady as they can be in the UK. More SCG Radio! More!

Damn wish I was able to ask a question about Kane/Dreamer's career in 1991 :shifty:

Looking forward to part 2. Biggest question is; will it really be out next week?

The Kyle Ross episodes have been put out consistently. I’ve got the faith. :y:

Another excellent listen. Missed the regular shows but worth the wait when one surprisingly drops

Fear not gentlemen - SCG Radio returns this week for the second part of our series covering the WWF in 1991! Today, Liam O'Rourke and Kyle Ross look at WrestleMania 7, all the highs and lows of the show, notes on the success or failure of the event (spoiler: it was a failure), moves Vince McMahon made between January and March in the bodybuilding world, a notable doctor gets indicted, and we talk all about the undercard scene for the first three months of the year, all with notes, facts and figures from the Wrestling Observer newsletters of the period. A ton of fun, check it out and let us know what you think!

https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/dmat...rt_1Bbp0xu.mp3

I just can't get into 1990-92 WWF. I stopped watching at around 90 and started again around 94.

I only watch older footage nowadays and I still can't into this time period

I'm just going to throw some mental spaghetti at the wall here, and see what sticks. My brain can only do that on this right now.

I think that 1991 can be seen as a bit of an experimental year for the WWF, and here's why.

In 1991, the WWF ended up, in it's main event scene, doing something that kind of resembled a lite version of what, 6 years later, ended up being 'The Attitude Era'.

The 1991 storyline that travelled that road involved the following 8 talents.

Hulk Hogan
The Ultimate Warrior
'Macho Man' Randy Savage
Miss Elizabeth
Sid Justice
Jake 'The Snake' Roberts
Paul Bearer
The UnderTaker

The 1st half of the storyline, from what I observed, was Jake engaging in his manipulations of Ultimate Warrior. that was triggered by A] UnderTaker dumping Warrior into the steel casket on the Funeral Parlor, and B] Jake's descent into darkness after Earthquake ended Damien, and turned Damien into food.

That kind of material is not really something that would be geared too well to an audience of kids ranging in age from 7-11 for 1991 standards.

Due to the fact that, after SummerSlam 1991, we didn't get to see the payoff between Roberts & Warrior(which would've led to Roberts being liquified by an intensely pissed off Warrior), everything about that transitioned into the other 5 getting involved in a 2-front narrative, with the first front being Sid coming to Savage and Liz's rescue at the failed reception, and then Taker going after the WWF Championship held by Hogan.

The darkest parts of the 2nd half ended up being A] the king cobra biting Savage, B] Roberts slapping Elizabeth, and C] Roberts wanting to put Liz to sleep with a chair shot to the head.

As we know, Taker saved Liz, turned on Roberts, and beat him at WM VIII in 1992, which to me, ended all of the different parts of that storyline, with the rest of the remnants being swept away when Hogan beat Justice that same night. Possible that Sid's personality heeled off when he got exposed to Jake's corruptive influence?

It was a decent attempt to create more mature programming for the 1991 version of the WWF, but the fanbase wasn't really ready to see that happen yet, and it kind of flew under the radar. Had that happened 5 years later, in 1996, it'dve been given more attention, and the fans would've ate that narrative up like ThanksGiving/Christmas dinner.

Does that make sense?

You had the right star and cultural zeitgeist when Austin was there in 1998 to really capitalize with Attitude. It wasn’t so much the content as it was the star vehicle.

By 1991, Hogan had just been around so much. It’s not that believable to see a guy remain on top for such a long time (it’s one of my big arguments against Undertaker and the streak).

This occurred to me during the 1990 series, but I do wonder just how important the shift in decade was to people’s perceptions and what Vince was thinking. The difference between 1989 and 1990 might be an arbitrary distance of one year, but people do tend to think in terms of time clusters. It’s satisfying to try and categorize “90’s culture,” even though 1998 is as close to 2006 as it is 1990. And that’s a reality promoters might have to wrestle with, even if they don’t go in for it. How fans were looking at the WWF and Hulk Hogan through the prism of the 90’s could have been a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I loved the latter half of 91 going into 92.

Savage Roberts Feud was highly enjoyable
Summerslam 91 has always been one of my favorites
Flair joining WWF
Sid joining WWF
Bret starting solo career
Rockers breakup and HBK starting solo career shortly thereafter
92 Rumble

Regarding sihfts....
89 going to 90 felt like a big shift in presentation/roster

1999-2000 by comparison felt relatively the same between both years. I dont think that shift was really felt until 2002 or so.

I thought 1993 also felt like a shift year

SCG Radio returns to look at April to June 1991 in the WWF! In the first part of our look at the quarter, we break down the top feuds in the promotion to look at the tale it tells - Hulk Hogan Vs. Sgt. Slaughter goes up against Ultimate Warrior Vs. Undertaker at the houses, and the results were striking. We talk about the major angles of the period in the main event scene, the WWF loses its deal with NBC, Warrior gets press for being a gay prostitute (allegedly!), and in perhaps the biggest story of the quarter, WCW's Sid Vicious hands in his notice and sets sail for TITAN in hilarious fashion! All the facts, figures and analysis you love, check it out and let us know what you think!

https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/9bsf...rt_2A6so9m.mp3

Between the Sheets did a Patreon show on Sid in the WWF. The sequence of events from Sid leaving WCW for the WWF is so fucking Sid to a T.

It's vintage Eudy...and it's also vintage WCW. Letting him out of a valid contract for Christ knows what reason.

I wasn't a hardcore fan of the WWF(E) back in 1991, but can we really call Sgt. Slaughter's push a disaster? (I'm assuming that you're referring to his heel run?). Slaughter was legit receiving death threats from people and was being refused service at restaurants. Slaughter had been a fairly respectable face for much of the time and then shocked people by siding with the enemy. The fact that people got so emotionally invested into this storyline makes it a huge success does it not? 29 years later, and here we are writing about it and discussing it. I don't think it was a "terrible decision" at all on Vince's part.

It did the lowest buyrate of any WrestleMania up to that point by far, didn't draw on house shows, got them shit loads of bad press and drew a bad rating on NBC that ended up with them losing the prestigious SNME slot. I'd call that a pretty big fuck-up, death threats or not.

When it comes to the issue of Taker being the hot heel against Warrior, I think a bit more goes into it than that. Not that being a hot heel doesn’t help (it definitely does), but honestly it sounds like it’s just a better program. Warrior is also coming off a really amazing performance against Savage, which may have solidified him in the minds of fans post-underwhelming title run.


Hogan, as you guys pointed out in one of your part 1’s, didn’t feel fresh in the spot. Maybe being the deposed champion actually helped him? Certainly having Earthquake didn’t hurt, but when he gets back in the champion slot, it’s back to the status quo.

Fair enough. I wonder as to how much of that was related to the decline in business in general, as opposed to the actual angle? Hulkamania dominated the late 80's but was starting to die down as we entered the 90's. The WWE tried to give the ball to the Ultimate Warrior in 1990, but he wasn't up to the task.

Did WWF ratings spike back up in 1992?

If you're interested, definitely check out the shows. Between this and the 1990 series we did, it really does break everything down so you can make the decision for yourself on what was working and what wasn't. When you examine it, the idea that Warrior wasn't up to the task really morphs into - Rick Rude was a terrible booking decision as his opponent in the summer. As we go into on this weeks show, Warrior and Undertaker did really good business after Mania 7, much better than Hogan and Slaughter did with the title, so the idea that Warrior couldn't draw on top is a total myth.

The promotion was getting colder, as shown in 1990 for both Hogan, Warrior and the NBC ratings. But when you look at the details, its not as cut and dry as history claims.

That's pretty interesting. Warrior feuding with and beating Savage definitely helped, but as you say, the hot angle, the better heel and more interesting feud says a lot. And that's the case in both 90 and 91. What's interesting is they found a way to get Warrior to sell in a way that felt like a big deal, which he never really did in 90, and really had no way to since he was working with smaller midcarder Rude and it wouldn't have worked. Hogan as champion again in 91 may have done well had he been with a half decent heel, but they had nobody ready, so it was status quo.

Cool man that's really interesting. I will admit that I bought into the "Warrior couldn't draw" myth perpetuated by Hogan and the WWE. Cheers.

As an example, Warrior Vs. Slaughter at the Rumble did a better buyrate than Hogan Vs. Slaughter at Mania.

That's really amazing. I can probably look this up myself, but were the undercards at least comparable? The only thing that could possibly weaken your evidence here, is if the undercard at Royal Rumble that year was significantly better (and more heavily built up) then that undercard at Mania', but the likelihood of that having happened is quite small.

Really interesting stuff here regardless. Nice work hb2k. :cool:

SCG Radio returns this week to talk April to June of 1991 in the World Wrestling Federation! This week, we're walking through everything in the undercard, from Jake Roberts' snake getting squashed and killed by Earthquake, the failed return of Andre The Giant, Bobby Heenan's managing career ends, the often-forgotten Virgilina angle (!), The Mountie and Big Bossman cross paths, IRS debuts, and the tag team scene goes to hell in a handbasket. On top of that, we discuss the first WBF pay-per-view, as well as detail the trial of Dr. George Zahorian on drug trafficking charges, including to WWF wrestlers, one of which was none other than Hulk Hogan. All the facts, figures and analysis you'd expect, check it out and let us know what you think!

https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/q5jm...rt_2Bapuo8.mp3

SCG Radio returns for the first part of our look at July and August 1991 in the WWF! The crazy year continues with the fallout of the Dr. George Zahorian conviction, the media puts the pressure on Vince McMahon, Hulk Hogan tries to quell the flames on Arsenio Hall in horrendous fashion and much, much more. Additionally, we look at the top angles for Summerslam 91 and the departure of the Ultimate Warrior, looking at how everything fell apart and analysing Warrior's run at the top. A ton of fun to relive - check it out and let us know what you think!

https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/ysn4...rt_3A6xq59.mp3

Glad to hear a return to the series.

SummerSlam 91 is one of the all-time great SummerSlams IMO

Bret vs Perfect is a classic

At the time I thought nothing of it. I was a little too young to have memories of Slaughter's first run before he left to do G.I. Joe stuff, and again age wise being at war with Iraq didn't seem like much of anything. I was a Hogan guy more than a Warrior guy, so I was ok with Hogan taking the spot back.

Looking back, that part still seems like the right decision as Warrior spun way out of control.

The wrong part was the issue that the angle was getting real death threats, couldn't sell out the LA Colosseum, and was a safety concern for the whole event.

Funny enough, Warrior being removed led to him and Savage at Mania which in my opinion was Warriors best match ever.

I don’t think the angle got real death threats, but the point I’ve seen made in previous SCG Radios, was that this was the poor taste stuff that gave the media the taste for blood. If Vince is going to go that low for attention, he cannot complain about the attention he gets. To this day, while things in the Attidude era didn’t help, these sorts of scandal might be the catalyst behind wrestling struggling to find much respect.

That and it’s stinkin’ fake fightin’ for babies.

When it comes to Warrior, I think the piece of shit he was makes it likely he wasn’t very equipped to be the top guy, but sometimes I wonder if the WWF/E dragging their toes causes a guy’s issues. Rob Van Dam got busted for weed in 2006 and some were like “See! The WWF were right not to push him in 2001!”

I've got to agree - Warrior vs Savage was his best match.

Savage was such an incredible storyteller in the ring, truly one of the all-time greats in wrestling.

On the topic of drawing, I’ve had a lofty theory on it I’ve been pondering for a while: We often look at PPVs, attendance and TV ratings as the gauge by which a draw operates. And when it comes to a territory’s business, those tangible in-the-moment metrics are crucial, don’t get me wrong. But I do wonder just how many people watching today, buying merchandise, subscribing to the Network, etc. are cemented fans for life because of Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, or those memories of Warrior as a kid.

I don’t know how you measure that. I’m not sure if that is to be measured. But lately I’ve been thinking about the overall engagement (yuck) a wrestler encourages people to stick around and spend money over a period of years, even decades.

SCG Radio returns for Part 3B of our series talking 1991 in the WWF! This time, we're continuing our look into July and August by analysing Ric Flair's departure from WCW and impending arrival in the WWF, all the insanity that led to it with Jim Herd, as well as evaluating the lead-up to Flair's exit and aftermath. In addition, we're looking at the undercard build to Summerslam 1991 and talking all about the show itself, featuring Bret Hart's IC Title win over Mr. Perfect, the JAILHOUSE MATCH, Virgil's career peak and a great deal more. A ton of fun looking at the TV and news of the period, check it out and let us know what you think! If you don't download it here, it's also available on iTunes, Spotify or Podbean!

https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/tmi6...rt_3B7v8dv.mp3