The Mark Henry Lesson
 

Recently I saw an interview with Greg Helms and in it he stated that the "big leagues" used to be the end game for wrestlers. They would season themselves for a number of years in the indys/territories or overseas and once they had honed their in ring skills, mic skills and personalities/gimmicks they would be prepared to hit WWF or WCW. However, now a number of guys are starting in WWE, many of them in their early + mid-20's. Granted, I don't think all guys ought to be held back due to some being more advanced or just plain better than the others, but most of the youngsters probably ought to be held back for a while in order to better themselves and therefore the product (though it can't totally erase much of the bad writing by creative).

This brings me to Monday Night, when for the first time since MITB 2011 I had a mark out moment. Mizark Henry made a cynical man watching wrestling feel like a 12 year old for a minute. Say what you will about Mark Henry, but the past number of years have been GREAT. He has always been a company guy, much like Kane in a sense. Katie Vick angle= Mae Young birthing a hand/Sexual Chocolate gimmick. Since his signing in 1995 there has been a lot of crap from Mark, but I think it can be attributed to the fact that his growing pains and struggles to find himself in business were on display for everyone to see rather than in the shadows of the developmental system.

Mark Henry has finally achieved the level that Vince McMahon thought he would nearly 18 years ago. Through the Nation, tagging with D'Lo, Sexual Chocolate, Hall of Pain and everything else he seems to be a throwback type of the business that needed years of experience and hardwork to reach a certain level.

Was Greg Helms right that these guys need more work and when they are too raw they hurt the product? I've heard enough people complain of certain performers being bad on the mic, or their ring work being sloppy and/or unimaginative. I think that Mark Henry's career serves as a lesson to the WWE that perhaps more time ought to be put into development rather than pushing guys out too soon because they have a "look," or "potential." Am I off base or does this make some sense? Thoughts?

You can tell the guys who've worked other places straight away, the thing with the in house developmental system is kind of a double edged sword, everyone is taught the WWE style and theoretically can then work with anyone but they are also all really similar in the early goings of their careers. There's always going to be guys like Brock who just get it but ideally you want everyone coming in to have some seasoning.

It's hard to think that he debuted in 1996, a year before the Kane character. I have more to say, which I will do soon.

They've tried to give him these monster pushes in the past. The problem is that he was too injury prone to keep it going for an extended period of time. The best thing he did was injury Batista enough to make him drop the title. I knew he was going to succeed the last time because he actually broke the lock on the door without any problem. They've tried that a few times and he always seemed to mess it up or they somehow forgot to gimmick the lock.

The segment on Raw was pure genius. At first I thought it was going to be a fake out retirement but then he was so heartfelt with his comments that I thought it was going to be a real retirement. Then the World Strongest Slam out of the hug I was pretty shocked. If he did that against anybody else other than Cena he'd be a super-over heel right now. Since it's Cena he's just our hero.

Welsh Batista, what's his name... Mason Ryan, is a good example of a guy who got called up way too fast, and Husky Harris to a lesser extent. Now look at Husky, he's about to come in hot with a new stable. Hopefully it goes well.

There's also the 'build on smackdown / then move to raw' process from 2006-2012 which saw MVP, Kennedy, Ryback, Cesaro and Sandow all pretty much get their first shots on pre-taped TV before getting more time on Raw. With the brandsplit over that's not so much the case.

Mark Henry has only really been watchable the last two years though, and his character hasn't really changed over the last ten years, only his catchphrases. Up until his world title win in 2011, he was fucking boring to watch.

Does Mark Henry get into the Hall of Fame when he finally does hang up his boots? His tenure with the company alone is remarkable, but his career as a whole is kind of a mixed bag.

I still can't believe how I've become a fan of Henry. Used to change the channel when he was on TV.

[INSERT OBLIGATORY "If Koko B. Ware is in..." COMMENT HERE]

Considering how memorable the "Sexual Chocolate" gimmick was and his recent success, I'd say he goes in pretty easily. It will probably be a few years after he retires though.

I don't feel WWE will look at Mark Henry's career and think anything that the OP posted. If anything, it'll probably further the idea that you can force-feed a greenhorn and eventually something will stick.

"Sexual Chocolate" was pretty damn over. The N.O.D. was pretty damn over. He was green and not very good, but he was involved in some very over storylines.

"Sexual Chocolate" is still over to this day, if the chants are any indication.

It was a fun gimmick. Mark Henry is amazing when he is being funny/laid back or when he is destructive violent beast. His worst period was from like 2001-2009 when all he did was either "babyface powerlifter" or "angry fat man" with lots of injuries in between.

Mark Henry is what a "monster heel" should be. He is a very real gimmick. He is a big, strong, pissed off mother fucker who wants to hurt people because its fun and he wants something at any cost. He isn't some over the top gimmick. We all have experience or understand the idea of "that guy you shouldn't fuck with". Mark Henry is that guy. You do not fuck with Mark Henry.

Mark Henry/Undertaker at Mania now as opposed to how I felt about it at WrestleMania 22 is amazing to thing about. Mark Henry could get more sympathy for the Undertaker than HBK, HHH, Punk, etc. because he could beat the ever loving fuck out of The Undertaker and not need chairs, 40 finishers, and crazy bumps to make The Undertaker look like he has been beaten within an inch of his life.

I do like Henry a bit now, but I really would not like to see him vs. The Undertaker at Wrestlemania. That match would not be good with a very obvious outcome.

It wouldn't be the instant classic like the past 6 have been, but it'd be a different kind of match than he has had in ages at WrestleMania. CM Punk/Undertaker was an awesome match, but "The Streak" matches have become too similar in their layout. It'd be interesting to see a match where Undertaker doesn't have to give 4 Tombstones, 3 Last Rides, and 2 Chokeslams to win after overcoming 4 finishers, 3 sets of repeated chair shots, and 10 minutes of reversal-counter-reversal.

I wonder if Undertaker can even lift Mark Henry at this point though.

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I'd rather have a paint-by-numbers classic match than a glacial-paced "Big Man" match. Maybe it's me.

That'd add to the match and tie it into the storyline. Outside of John Cena, who is an opponent for The Undertaker that would basically sell itself?

I think Mark Henry is good enough now to make that match more than that.

Honestly, that idea really intrigues me at this point. Henry VS. Undertaker.

What kind of match though? Gimmick or no though?

No DQ/No Countout is all it would need. The idea is that Mark Henry wants to avenge his loss at WM22 and forever cement him as the most violent superstar in WWE history. He beats the ever loving fuck out of The Undertaker, but Undertaker won't stay down. You do some hope spots, fake a comeback, and then Taker really does make a come back and wins the match. It is a tried and true match formula for a reason. Just because something isn't innovative doesn't mean it isn't good.

I think they need to try and make his Mania matches more about the emotion and the idea that he is going to break down and it could easily be this year instead of "THE UNDERTAKER VS ____ AT WRESTLEMANIA! IT WILL BE AN EPIC BATTLE FOR THE AGES!" Everybody loves the fuck out of The Undertaker and the idea that this big bastard would go out of his way to destroy him and end his career would be easy heel heat and tell a great story. Also, you wouldn't need anyone to pass away at the perfect time.

I still think John Cena will turn heel by beating The Undertaker at WrestleMania XXX.

Did you just hear Brother Love breathe a sigh of relief?

Henry has been great for nearly 5 years.

I am pretty sure Mick Foley is going to pass away soon. With his history of sacrificing for the business he's probably going to do it before Undertaker retires and right before Mania.

This is a heavily depressing thought but hard to argue with.

I know, it kills me to realize that he's no longer the Mick I practically worshipped in my teens. If I had ever gone to a WWF show, I would have been one of the dorks with a "Foley is God" sign.

His promo work is no longer good, in fact it's barely tolerable, his jokes are no longer so corny they're funny, they're so corny that they are in fact just corny. I've seen morbidly obese women who look more intimidating and less likely to collapse from heart failure after running 12 feet.

We can only hope DDP takes pity on him and gets him into something resembling shape and not the amorphous blob he has become.

I haven't checked out his stand-up routine at all, but that man knew how to create a story in his books.

I love Mark Henry so much

... while Terry Funk continues wrestling in matches on his 120th birthday, moonsaulting through flaming tables.

And still promising he'll retire...

Of course Greg Helms is right. I've been saying it for years now.

When did Terry Funk come out of retirement again? Also, now I want to see Terry Funk VS. Mark Henry.

Foley never used drugs or alcohol. Sure hes fat, but his bumps arent going to kill him, and hes still pretty young to be worried about obesity killing him. Hes not THAT bad. Hes not going to die soon.

<font color=goldenrod>It's weird. Henry bored the fuck out of me during his heel run from like 2006-09. Just seemed to be a generic monster heel without much substance to him. Then he turned face on Raw, beating Orton (then champion) and looked like he was gonna be the next big thing.

He wasn't. But his face run made me realize just how likable the dude was. And it made me appreciate his next heel turn all the more. I've loved him ever since.</font>

Taking care of yourself should always be a concern. As someone who has been dealing with a certain amount of debilitating chronic pain for a while now (doubtful it equals up to Foley's) the answer isn't to binge on icecream and just completely let yourself go.

That said, in one of his last books I remember him mentioning some use of painkillers. If his eating is any sign of an addictive personality I don't think that could be a good thing. He's not even 50 yet...he really should start taking better care of himself if he wants to be around for much longer.

I think you're going a little deep on this.

The only people that is the answer for are terminally ill people with weeks to live.

I presented it as speculation for a reason, after all.

Again he's not even 50 yet, are you going to completely let yourself go when you have potentially 30-40+ years left in the tank. I don't plan on ever completely giving up on life...until you know...I die.

Mick Foley seems to be doing just fine, keeps busy and seems to enjoy what he's doing. Settle down.

Also his daughter is quite attractive. I follow her on twitter.

You want to cane her, don't you?

Also isn't she like 14?

19 or 20

I've looked it up

also she could cane me if she'd like, as I am a gentleman

Way too old for you then. Damn pedophile!

#gorm

<marquee>CSL Forgets People Speculate on the Internet
</marquee>
It's not complete nonsense, I assume.

I do see people who let themselves go, regardless of accomplishments as dumb except for some reasonable exceptions. That said, your bit about Foley "fighting" to stay in the shape he was is silly and based on the idea that he was genetically going to turn into what he became rather than based on his own admittedly horrible diet.

My original argument was simply that the guy is in horrible shape to the point of being physically unhealthy. I'm not pretending that he's fallen into some Jake "The Snake" style hole in which he'll always be remembered for. He has lived a pretty hard life suffering multiple concussions, broken bones and whatnot and there is no fucking way that his doctors support his current lifestyle of over-eating with what looks like no exercise whatsoever. I do know that he has been advised by his doctors not to ever wrestle again, so it's really not unthinkable in the least that he might be headed for the dirt.

Every time I see him he looks a little worse, sounds a little worse. I would speculate that he's a good candidate for heart failure within the next 5-6 years.

He's not much younger than my own father who passed away relatively young after living a fairly unhealthy life and over-eating. He too accomplished many of his dreams before he gave up and eventually died and he didn't look nearly as bad as Foley when he had the heart attack that took his life.

Just from reading his books I can confirm that his #1 way of dealing with pain, injuries and stress was loading up on ice cream with his buddy Abdullah. With his complaints about his shoddy knees, his talk about the use of pain-killers I think it's personally reasonable to suggest he may have a problem with addiction, whether or not he is strung out on heroin, crack and meth like 40% of former pro-wrestlers.

It sucks, but it's what I think and it's more valid a position then, "He can totally do whatever he wants now because he's rich!"

Rich people die too, bro.

No shit, everybody fucking dies eventually. Whether it's their last 5, 10, 20 or 40 years, the fact that you think you're some kind of moral authority on how anyone, let alone a complete stranger to you like Foley, should live the remainder of their lives is ridiculous. Not too mention the fact that people in great shape who do nothing but take care of themselves drop dead daily and folks who treat their bodies horribly have gone on to live to be 100.

having grown up watching him, I can understand being concerned for Foley and wanting him to have a long healthy life, but the fact that you think you're some kind of expert on how he should live or behave is pathetic. It has nothing to do with how much money he has or whether he's accomplished his goals. He's a free human fucking being with free will and as long as he doesn't harm anyone else, he can do whatever he wants and live the way that makes him happy.

What the fuck is DTTS on?

Oh god, who fucking cares

He's just mad that Jolly Ol Saint Mick has been downing the Swiss Rolls, and he isn't one of them.

You people are talking about Undertaker vs. Mark Henry II at WrestleMania... some of the same people that bitch about how new talent doesn't get a chance to shine, especially at WrestleMania, are talking about wanting to see Undertaker vs. Mark Henry at WrestleMania... for the second time. Come on...

I wanna see Henry and Big Show form the Natural Disasters 2. Henry could be mudslide and Big Show could be, I dunno, Blizzard.

lol, is that your response to what I said?

That real shit.

I cannot argue with this. This is a good counter-point. Take note BigCripz.

Im starting to hope DTTS dies soon. hes become so horrible.

Starting? I must not be working hard enough.

One more thing you have in common with Kane Knight. Congratulations.

I often think about how general opinion on Henry has seemingly gone from an almost universal "he's terrible" and his name being brought up as a waste of money every time releases were mentioning, to being pretty much universally beloved. Henry is classified as "good" these days, which is good for him.

I loved when he was wrecking shit. Tearing doors off cages and slamming Big Show through the same cage and stuff. Total badass. Even still, I don't generally need his actual matches to go any longer than 14 seconds or so.

I hate how they bill that the WWE title is the only title he hasn't won yet.

I think they meant world titles.

It's true, though.

He was World Heavyweight Champion.

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Now that I think of it, the only match that he was in that sticks out in my memory as 'good' was when he won the WHC from Randy Orton.

Yeah, that one. Weird.

Yes I forgot about his long intercontinental reign and his multiple tag team runs. :|

I wonder if Chavo comes back and wins the WHC will JBL say the only title he hasn't won was the WWE title

I think they mean it's the only title WORTH winning that he hasn't won. He's never been the Divas champion ever, but I'm willing to let that ride.

Now that I think about it, I would love to see Mark Henry as the Divas champion.

Almost happened with Kharma, I guess.

I would hate it if he won it then DB cashes in on him

Yeah, that would kinda suck for both him AND Bryan. Bryan needs to win the title clean when/if he does it.

DTTS should be a motivational speaker! With a book series, too! :)

In the works.

That's what's depressing about it.

I do get that as a former World Champion, it seems logical that Henry would only make a lateral move, but they should explain it as such. Or talk about Henry has been chasing the WWE Title since he debuted in WWE.

Persistance pays. He didn't give up or jump ship... all the cheezy, uplifting shit Cena has been putting on his shirts for the last 5 years, Henry has lived through it during his entire WWE tenure.

And it helps that he is apparently a pretty nice guy. Never heard any stories about him being any kind of asshole IRL. I remember some radio interview I caught about Randy Orton where he was talking about being stiffed by Mark in that posted match (I think it was that one, not sure) with him on accident... to the effect of (paraphrased) "Bless him, he's a big guy who doesn't really know his strength; if you know him, you know he's not really trying to hurt you". Hell, he was one of the few guys I actually *believed* during RAW is OWEN; he wasn't trying to be "in character" and pretty much showed he was truly a gentle giant.

Also, I would say a sizable element of luck played into him lasting long enough to mature into some greatness. Much like I said Triple H was a pretty mediocre guy who excelled at making the most of all the cards falling his way, much the same could be said about Henry... sort of. He wasn't anything particularly special outside of the WWF's desire to use him as a cross-promotional heavy... Vince's big man fettish? Check. Big BLACK man? Check. POWERLIFTER?! That's perfect from back in the ICO:PRO days, so check there too.

It already wasn't going to matter if he sucked ass, he "looked the shit". And all those detrimental injuries really prolonged his career in a way. He was never overexposed to where people got sick of him, and could always come in just about anywhere and be viewed as a credible threat. And then, there's Kurt Angle. What does Kurt have to do with Mark? Well, he kind of took that Olympian ball and ran with it... that same banner they initally wanted Mark to wave around. They couldn't really view Henry as a failure in that reguard there since they came into somebody who was just better with it. He never had the juiced-up, roided out physique of someone like a Chris Masters, so when he looked to be less in shape, there wasn't any "the illusion's gone" moment with him.

And even with that, he didn't just sit on his big ass and go "pfft, they ain't gon' fire me!" He actually tried to get better. He worked on cutting promos. He got better in the ring, even AFTER getting his mobility hampered by repeated knee trauma and having to move all that around all these years. He's got the "big man" ring psychology down. The big ass man can also take some big ass bumps.

Again, Cena's shirt says it all: HUSTLE, LOYALTY, RESPECT. Mark Henry has done all that. Hustled his ass off (figuratively), been a loyal WWE man, and has earned any respect he's due.

You lost me at "Triple H was a pretty mediocre guy." Shut the fuck up.

Yeah, yeah... we've already been down that road. Like I said before, wasn't really knocking the guy, but Trips could have just as easily been one of those that got lost in the shuffle and/or future endeavored because WWE had nothing for him.

Hell, one slight misalignment of the stars, James, and you'd prob'ly be the Archbiship of the Church of Bradshaw today, and Hunter would be on commentary and climbing mountains around the world while everyone comments on how hot Stephanie McMahon-Layfeld is.

The Hell in a Cell rematch was pretty good, too.

It's a sad day for wrestling when we don't see the Intercontinental, U.S. or Tag Team Titles as "titles worth winning".

Seems to me like waiting to bring more guys on until they’re 27-30 and with proper training, experience and whatever is the ideal. Granted that’s just an arbitrary and rather shallow age range I gave, but Sheamus was in the Indies until late 2006 when he went to FCW at 28. 3 years and a couple of months later, thanks to one Jesse “The Body” Ventura, he got a WWE title shot against Cena at TLC 2009 in a tables match:

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John Cena (c) vs. Sheamus, Tables WWE title... by pocomaxa

So yes, I would say Mr. Helms has an excellent point.

Still think that it would have made far more sense to have Jack Swagger beat John Cena at the PPV.

Yeah Sheamus' reign as WWE Champion was terrible

Let's get this back on topic. Mick Foley is minutes away from heart failure.

DDP saved Foley's life.

lol, CSL was dumb here.

Millionaire entrepreneur and philanthropist right here.

Not really.

CSL was one of the dumb ones for sure.

CSL was great.

Great and not that bright.

He's like a cool STD.

You're drastically off the mark there.

He's like a less cool STD?

Seriously, CSL was like, "FOLEY DESERVES TO BE FAT IF HE WANTS TO!" which is like the dumbest position you can take.

I was apparently right about how bad a place Foley was in at the time.

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November 2011 he was measure at 6'1 despite being 6'4.

He had acquired scoliosis. He was in constant pain and dealing with a great deal of depression.

"I gave up. I officially gave up on myself physically."

CSL: LOL, HE'S HAVING THE TIME OF HIS LIFE. LEAVE HIM ALONE!"