Most Shocking Title Changes
 

For this week's podcast, we're talking about the most shocking title changes in history, and are looking for█your suggestìons.

As a fan, which ONE title change did you personally find the most jarring when it happened, and why? Of course it can be any title in any promotion at any time, and the best nominations/explanations will be read on the show and you'll be credited accordingly. So which one was it for you and why?

EDIT - The show discussing the Most Shocking Title Changes in History, featuring many of your contributions, is now available at the following link: https://squaredcirclegazette.podbean...In_History.mp3

Edge at New Year's Revolution 2006. Cena had just retained the WWE Championship in an Elimination Chamber match featuring Shawn Michaels, Kane, Kurt Angle, Carlito and Chris Masters, and out comes Vince, asking for the cage to be lifted, as Edge was cashing in the very first Money in the Bank right then and there.

I found it shocking due to the fact that there was really no precedent for a MitB holder to almost be guaranteed to win the WWE or WHC/Universal Championship, and also because for a 2-3 minute match at the end of the first PPV of 2006, Cena actually put up more of a fight than a lot of others in his position would or would be able to, and I honestly recall thinking Edge's opportunity was going up in smoke, but I was more than glad and overjoyed to be proven wrong.

Finger Poke of Doom

David Arquette. While I believe he was a truly great in-ring technician, I thought he was only upper midcard talent. When he won the belt I was shocked and I just had to tune in every week to watch the super exciting Nitro shows.

* Sheamus winning the WWE Title from John Cena at TLC 2009. Not for any particular reason. I just didn't think they'd actually try and go with him that early. I'm glad it galvanized Ireland behind the WWE for life, just like Jinder Mahal will do with India though.

* Mankind winning the WWF Title for the first time too, and not just because the pop is shocking by today's standards. In retrospect, I'm not sure Austin helping Mankind win the WWF Title even makes sense. But it was Austin, and he could do whatever the hell he likes. Mankind gets the Mandible Claw on The Rock, before Ken Shamrock cracks a chair off Mankind's back. Billy Gunn then manages to not completely fuck-up taking Shamrock out of the equation, spilling with him to the outside, as Vince -- an infinitely better heel than Stephanie McMahon -- guffaws around the ringside area, worried about losing control of the situation. He's about to. Austin's music hits, and the crowd goes nuts. Anyone who thinks Tye Dillinger is over should check out that moment. Austin hits the ring, picks up the chair, and casually just kills the fucking Rock with it. He puts Mankind on top of The Rock. The people in the back stop marking out and realize shit's about to go down and cut the real Franchise's fucking music. The referee slides into position -- 1-2-3. The crowd goes crazy and Austin walks back to the ringside area and gives Vince the two-finger salute, before throwing his hat at Vince, who registers, but doesn't sell -- this isn't the old WWF Title belt we're talking about here.

* The date is September 20, 1997; the location is Birmingham, England. Reigning WWF European Champion, "The British Bulldog" Davey Boy Smith, dedicates his scheduled title defence to his cancer-stricken sister. His opponent is accomplished, but Davey Boy Smith has the home-field advantage, baby... Shawn Michaels winning the European Title from The British Bulldog wasn't that shocking, but what absolutely was shocking was the return match -- in Davey Boy's hometown of Manchester, doing record business at the Manchester Arena, as The British Bulldog looks to reclaim his...oh...

* JBL beating Eddie Guerrero. At least, I must have been in shock, because I was numb to the next 8 months.

* Daniel Bryan winning the WWE Title from John Cena at SummerSlam was shocking in such a "They're not actually going to do it," sort of way. Daniel Bryan actually winning the WWE Title was invigorating. He may have lost it a second later, but that was obviously all part of the WWE's master-plan to make Bryan a massive star. That is why Bryan's win here is emphasized so heavily in the "Monster" music video at WrestleMania next year. Well, I mean, at least the Triple H betrayal is in there.

* Zack Ryder winning the Intercontinental Title at WrestleMania 32. There's surely something clever to be said about it, but I don't know what it is.

Noid never abiding by less being more.

Wouldn't have it any other way

:lol:

Shawn Michaels winning the WWF Title from Bret Hart at Survivor Series 1997 was pretty shocking.

As was the following year when The Rock turned heel and won the deadly games tournament.

Ziggler cashing in MITB.

I found Kevin Nash defeating Goldberg was a pretty shocking result.

David Arquette winning the WCW World championship. Damaged more than helped the credibility of the belt at the time due to WCW pulling a publicity stunt for a wrestling movie. Even Arquette thought it was a really dumb idea to do but WCW Creative still went ahead with plans.

Jericho becoming the first undisputed champion. It was before WWE got in the habit of constant "shock" title changes and it was pretty much a foregone conclusion going into the event that we'd be getting Austin vs Rock for the title. Never thought for a second Jericho would get past Rock, much less win the title.

Ronnie Garvin defeats Ric Flair for the NWA World Title because it came from nowhere. It wasn't necessarily good, but it came from nowhere. Fans turned Flair face during the match he regained.

I wish I knew who it was on here, but they called it. They based it on Jericho being walked over heading into the PPV. I had Jericho last on my likely winners, with my prediction being an Austin vs. Rock final.

Truth be told, shock value aside, do you think giving Jericho the Undisputed Title was the right move? Booking aside, I never took Jericho seriously as a heel until 2008 -- he was still doing his WCW mid-card shtick, which was entertaining in the WCW mid-card, but was feeling a bit out of place against guys like Austin and Rock who were presented as definitively better.

Putting the Undisputed Title on Austin from the start and having him face Triple H at WrestleMania X-8 may have been the better overall direction for the company, and long-term for Jericho, who entertered a slump after, well, I wish I could after Mania X-8, but it was really before then.

I know the subject asks for ONE, but going through the memory banks, it is making me realize how hard it is to think of truly shocking memories in professional wrestling. Everything is painted over with a brush of "anything can happen" and a retroactive conditioning to the emotions you felt at the time.

Ultimately, I do have to settle on JBL as the most shocking choice for champion. The sudden transformation from Bradshaw, the lack of build. It's impossible to find Khali or Jinder Mahal (sorry, India, it's not you) too jarring once that precedent has been set. Not even Jack Swagger. When you consider that leading up to it, the previous first-time champions in WWE had been Eddie Guerrero, Brock Lesnar, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle and, before that, Triple H, it really does emphasize how random JBL was.

But the most shocking change, and one of the few times I had to talk to someone about a title change I saw in wrestling, was when Austin turned heel to win the title from The Rock at WrestleMania X-7. The nature of it -- Austin shaking hands with Vince, and essentially bringing an end to the Attitude era, while detrimental to business, might have been one of the last true shocks to the system wrestling has delivered at that level.

I for one was absolutely shocked that Christian won the title at Night of Champions 2009.
The ECW championship was on fire at that point (many people feel as if it was the most prestigious world championship at the time). Tommy Dreamer breathed new life into the ECW brand and probably should have held the championship belt until WrestleMania... But low and behold Christian wins the belt and a few months later ECW is dead.

I was going to post this photo. :y:

http://s2.glbimg.com/OOCd4lShJeVcRw4...estlemania.jpg

Doink the Clown winning the Intercontinental title from the Undertaker & Lex Luger in a handicap match. Vince McMahon said so on commentary himself.

"*BZZZZT!* Shocking!!!"

lol

No one thought that.

What was shocking about that win was bringing Christian back with no fanfare and sticking him on your C-Brand.

I marked the fuck out the night Christian returned. ECW was easily my favorite of the brands for a few years.

Speaking from the perspective of a 9 year old kid at the time: I couldn't believe it when Warrior beat Hogan at Wrestlemania 6.

Has to JBL for me.

I wasn't able to watch at the time due to being in halls of residence at university but was following the product via reading results. There wasn't much fanfare around the transformation from Bradshaw to JBL, so in my mind - having not actually seen the JBL character - the beer-swilling, "past it" tag team wrestler was WWE Champion.

I couldn't believe it.

Speaking of Christian...... still can't accept that WWE were so dumb to have Orton take the belt off him two days after he won it.

:foc:

Same here :y:

ECW was pretty awesome. It was better than the original ECW post 98

They didn't even give it a chance. The plan was never to run with him, but why not see if you can build something worth watching there?

Bret Hart beating Ric Flair at a House Show in Saskatoon in 1992.

Oh and since no one said it before Jinder was just a tad bit shocking.

They've thrown the title on lower card guys enough in the 2 title era that you pretty much expect it when one is challenging. Jinder winning didn't shock me at all.

Jeff Hardy winning his first WWE Championship @ Armageddon 2008 was pretty shocking...he was in there with 2 guys with multiple WWE & WHC titles in Triple H and Edge in a triple threat. It was REALLY surprising that Triple H allowed himself to be the one pinned and put Hardy over IMHO. Classy move on the part of The Game.

RVD defeating Cena at ECW One Night Stand 2006 for the WWE Championship also springs to mind. Cena was only a little over a year into playing the role of SuperCena and overcoming the odds every time, so it was quite a shock when they put RVD over. I can only imagine how his reign would've played out if not for that one stupid mistake that cost him it and the ECW Championship.

I'm pretty sure he was going to lose at SNME, just lost it a few days sooner.

Todd Grisham with the call of century :nono:

As far as shocking title changes are concerned, Rey Mysterio's second reign as World Heavyweight Champion and his first reign as WWE Champion were unexpected.

Same. Feel it didnt shock a lot of people

What lower card guys are we talking about?

Swagger, Daniel Bryan's first win, Punk's first win...

They've done the "guy who is jobbing in the midcard suddenly wins a title" thing for shock value so much that it's not shocking anymore. When a guy like that suddenly gets a title shot you pretty much expect them to win.

Wyatt.

Luger winning the title from Hogan on Nitro in 97 was pretty shocking.

Oh, there was also Unforgiven 2003, right in the middle of the dreadful Triple H WHC "Reign of Terror" on RAW, which saw Goldberg capture the title, and not only that, he held the damn thing until Triple H got it back @ Armageddon 2003.

I dunno, I feel like until he fucked himself over, Vince was planning for big things with RVD as WWE Champion, including a nice long reign featuring him constantly defending the WWE and ECW titles in alternating fashion.

I remember this being covered in the Timeline. Popped a good rating too. This was around the time Eddie Guerrero was testing high on likability in WCW. There was potential there to go forward past Starrcade '97 in some unique directions so that Goldberg and Scott Steiner weren't the only things you had coming through the pipeline.

:y:

This one did go through my head too. I had a feeling that Triple H vs. Randy Orton was the plan, so it seemed odd they would give Hardy the show. I thought they had sort of "swung and missed" with it earlier that year with Orton. Took me a little by surprise, just because of the timing.

If you didn't read the dirt sheets, I can totally buy this. Well, more so Orton winning the Rumble. The only reason I caught wind of it was because I saw a report that the betting odds had flipped to favor him. I thought "What the fuck? Orton's in the tag division with Luke Harper and Bray Wyatt." But once Orton won the Rumble, the title picture became pretty evident.

It has never been to the extent of Jinder Mahal who was a 5-star jobber until he became the #1 contender for the championship. I don't recall any other "midcard jobber" winning the strap. Maybe, JBL and The Miz if you're being strict.

As far as Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, and Jack Swagger winning the World Heavyweight Championship for the first time is concerned, the belt was already secondary and down the pecking order. While it wasn't as bad as the WWECW Championship, the World Heavyweight Championship was never the same once talents such as Edge, Batista, and the Undertaker were taken out of the title picture.

I've always believed that the WWE Championship has been a bit more protected than the retired World Heavyweight Championship.

I do read Smeats Sheetz, but nothing else.


Just shocked because they have really taken away any mystique he once held. Now he just kinda reminds me of the estranged uncle who shows up random places trippin balls on LSD (courtesy TPWW Legend Frank Drebin) and rants about nothing.

The stupid ass graphics of worms and whatever else during his Orton match was fucking stupid and reminded me of those bad 90's video games where it was "cool" to have full motion video (a la Pit Fighter, Area 51).

He is nothing more than a tattooed-pajama-wearing-clown at this point. He needs a good injury angle and take a good 6 months off.


Which of course ends up with him returning as a badass submission machine. :y:

I was shocked when Morrison won the title... was looking forward to seeing Benoit vs Punk.

Shocked when Chavo won too.

Kane jumps to mind too, both when he won the ECW Championship and then the World Heavyweight Championship. He beat Chavo in something like 8 seconds @ WM 24 for the ECW belt, and then he wins the SD! Money in the Bank contract at Money in the Bank 2010, and cashed in later the same night, defeating Rey in what I believe made him the first superstar to win and cash in the contract successfully on the same night IIRC.

And the World title is secondary/down in the pecking order to the Universal title now. It's what the WHC title was back when the midcard guys won them. So them throwing it on Jinder once he became #1 contender shouldn't have been much of a shock as they've done it with the secondary title repeatedly. Sure, Jinder's a more glaring example of it but once he got the push, it became clear that it was at least a strong possibility they'd throw it on him like they've done so much before.

I remember when they stopped referring the ECW Championship as a "world title". The belt was once up for contention along with the World Heavyweight Championship and the WWE Championship for the Royal Rumble winner.

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I am assuming that you meant the WWE Championship. I still don't think it is secondary to the Universal Championship.

Back during the initial draft when the rosters were separate, the WHC on RAW and the WWE Championship on Smackdown were on an equal footing for a very long time. The WHC lost its luster when the brand extension rules were relaxed.

With all the unifications back and forth, I honestly don't know what the official name for that title is anymore. lol

But Raw is still considered the main brand and its champion is Brock fucking Lesnar. It's the clear-cut top title in the company. Leaving the secondary title for them to fuck around with.

I do see the point about the WWE Title usually not being as experimental, but then again, you also had Sheamus and The Miz as champions. Del Rio won it. Rey Mysterio won it for a token run. They had played fast and loose with it before.

Even during the brief unification period, Sheamus got another run that no one clamoring for. The idea that the belt goes on the best wrestler or the biggest star in the company is no longer true even with just one of them. James Ellsworth winning a Unified WWE Championship couldn't shock me, if the idea behind it was to try and get kids to believe in themselves because "anyone can make it."

They initially try the new championship on RAW, because I think their thinking is that the prestige of the WWE Title carries over with it to SmackDown, while the prestige of the RAW brand breathes meaning into the new belt on that show, making them even. So Jinder Mahal is probably supposed to have the more prestigious belt on the less prestigious show. Slightly more meaningless would be if Mahal had won a new belt on the lesser show, but that is arguing semantics at this point.

They tossed both the WWE and World Heavyweight Titles around (to the point where they basically ignored the reigns of CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Jack Swagger and Dolph Ziggler with the World Heavyweight Title at points), and they did it on both RAW and Smackers.

Basically: It's true that the WWE Title is probably supposed to be the belt with more prestige, but they blew all its capital a long while ago with the last brand split, and now belts only really mean something when Brock or Cena has them.

The universal title only gained it credibility when Lesnar won it. Balor was an "unknown entity" that held it for a day. KOs reign started with interference and had interference through out every title defense. Goldberg was about 50 when he held the title.

You can tell what they were going for though: a new champion for a new era. I'm sure the idea was to let Balor run and then turn him heel and have The Club with him if it got tired. When Balor got hurt, Kevin Owens was a "something new" idea too, but the problem was that they booked almost exactly like they booked Seth Rollins when he was WWE Champ, so you basically had a mid-carder with the belt. Goldberg winning it made it feel like something the big boys play with, and Brock holding it has been good.

Eh.... I can take or leave Brock at this point. Kinda how Ambrose put it last year. He wants to come in, do his suplex spot and leave.

He is getting to be as boring as Reigns now. It'd be great to get a lil back and forth in a match and I think Joe would be a good opponent for that. Really hope they capitalize on Joe and try to build him after this 5 min title match.

I was actually pretty shocked by Jinder despite usually being desensitized to "shock" title changes. The shock for me was a combination of him being a total jobber for months before it and as the belief that Rusev was coming back so Jinder was just a one-month program to keep Orton warm.

Had Jinder returned to the company looking the way he does now and being pushed strong, the title change wouldn't have shocked me.

MITB stopped shocking me after Punk's first win.

Kinder wasn't really all that shocking. Last time I was shocked was when Rollins cashed in MiTB at Mania. Did not think they would ever use it during the main event at Mania.

That was at the Palace. Guess who was there?

It's funny you say that, because since that match with Brock, I could leave Ambrose.

Loved the podcast (as always). I enjoyed the musings on the faulty philosophy of shocking title changes. If it's a shock that someone wins the belt, then they probably weren't ready to win it in the first place.

Yea, because they've done fuck all with him and he really hasn't done anything "interesting" IMO.

He really could have used more mic time with his Miz feud. Both of those guys can go on the mic, though Ambrose probably is more restricted based off shit he would say in his Moxley days.

That match should have been much better. Ambrose was hot at the time and should have "gone over" without going over. Always felt that both people in matches should go over regardless of who gets the "W". It was such a lazy fucking match that is a really big shit stain on Ambrose.

Its like Cena V Sandow, except Sandow actually looked GREAT in that match.

Brock is so tiring anymore, really. I know he is supposed to be an unstoppable monster, but it is the SSDD.

Joe will get 2-3 offensive moves and then it'll be over. ZZzzZZZzzZZZZZz

Ambrose hasn't helped matters. There was the snoozer program with Jericho, the Austin podcast (which Ambrose look like a git, in my opinion), he got given the WWE Title and proceeded to get upstaged by AJ Styles, and then he was given the IC Title, which is a bit of an anchor.

I also think he looks horrible lately. When he was in The Shield, he had this alternative charm. When he first went lunatic, he would occasionally get stubble and let his hair grow out a bit more unkempt. It was about the time he grew the beard that I started thinking "Man, he looks just like...a normal guy..." I haven't seen him on RAW though. Maybe he's "freshened up" since then?

My interest in Ambrose on his own has decreased significantly, to the point where I'd place him last in terms of overall ranking when it comes to former Shield members. He could really use that Shield reunion more than any of them. That being said, I think there's a chance that he ends up in the Universal Title picture come WrestleMania -- with a Triple Threat between himself, Reigns and Rollins over the belt. They're balls-in with Reigns, but I can see them detouring Brock and putting him against Joe at Mania.

I'm not entirely sure it's just going to be Brock smash at the PPV. Something about the way Heyman set it up on RAW makes me think they might change plans and go with Joe. They've got this potential star-making thing right in front of them. Plus, I have a feeling that the plan was Balor, but that the idea was nixed because of credibility factors. Balor is giving up 100lbs to Brock. It's just a little too much. Whereas, if you put the belt on Joe, you can do Joe vs. Balor for the belt at SummerSlam, and burn through that rematch, and do Brock vs. Braun away from the title with the added bonus of Brock being pissed off.

Brock costs Joe the Universal Title with an F5 down the line to a Shield member, putting us in line for the Triple Threat at Mania, and then Joe reciprocates by attacking Brock in the Rumble and tossing him out. For the record, I think it could be Reigns and Nakamura as the final two in the Rumble, with people expecting Reigns to take it, but Nakamura wins and challenges John Cena at WrestleMania -- a match teased at the Network Special in Japan where Cena retains the WWE Title and Nakamura beats AJ Styles, with the last thing you see being a stand-off between Cena and Naks.

* Cena vs. Nakamura for the WWE Title
* Ambrose vs. Rollins vs. Reigns for the Universal Title
* Brock vs. Joe
* Triple H vs. Angle for Control of RAW
* Orton vs. Styles
* Shane vs. Owens

My basic way-off predictions for Mania 34.

I liked Ambrose's program with Jericho.... wouldn't call it a snoozer......

Of course I would attribute that heavily to Jericho........

The stuff with the plant? Eh, it wasn't for me. I can understand why they did everything on paper. It just didn't click and when people think Jericho vs. Ambrose, I think they had something with a bit more steak in mind.

Backlund beating Bret Hart was very surprising

Always a baffling move, but I think it was pointed out on a previous SCG podcast that George Foreman became Heavyweight Champion at 45 that year, and Backlund was the same age at the time. With that logic, it begins to make sense as to why they used Backlund as the transitional champion to Diesel, since he had already won it before.

Going back and watching all the t.v leading up to it, the Iron Sheik besting Backlund was a massive shock

Really wish they didn't have Vince come on stage and just had Edge's music play.

It worked for that one, because there was no precedent. We didn't yet know that the Money in the Bank briefcase turned the WWE Title into the Hardcore Title. That really should have been the only switch of that manner they ever did -- just like Benoit using the Royal Rumble to jump brands should have been a one-time thing. The WWE introduces these loopholes, but then have a kayfabe legal department that doesn't fix them, haha.

Just wanted to thank everybody for the contributions - the show looking at the Most Shocking Title Changes in History is now available at the following link:

https://squaredcirclegazette.podbean...In_History.mp3

Join us as we discuss the most shocking title changes of all time! Taking your nominations, we look at some of the most jarring moments in wrestling history, and analyse the execution and follow-up of title changes such as Bret Hart beating Ric Flair, Chris Jericho becoming Undisputed Champion, Big Show beating Brock Lesnar at Survivor Series 2002, Shawn Michaels winning the World Title on the same show, Sheamus dethroning John Cena at TLC, the title victories of David Arquette, Vince McMahon and Vince Russo, Jinder Mahal and JBL's rapid ascensions to the top, the Honky Tonk Man defeating Ricky Steamboat, the incident on The Main Event with Hogan and Andre, Edge cashing in Money in the Bank, the Summers Of Punk, and many many more. A really fun show this week, check it out and let us know what you think!