Indy Wrestling
 

I'm really curious to hear why some people hate on Indy Wrestling so much. Sure, it's easy to hate on what you don't know, but why the indy's? There is tons of talent out there that many people ignore just because they don't wrestle on USA, SyFy, or SpikeTV.

I want to see a real discussion start out of this...no "spot monkey this" and "Spot monkey that". Let's give actual reasons as to WHY you don't like it, is there just too much wrestling on an Indy card for you and not enough promos and stupid skits? Are people just pulling the Michale Cole card and saying that if it isn't WWE then it's crap?

For instance, I love indy wrestling, then energy that you can feel when you go to some indy shows is far different than going to an arena and watching wrestling. Alot of times the matches are exciting and fun to watch, plus there is actual crowd interaction. When you meet them after the matches, they are usually pretty cool people too and just appreciate that you came out to watch the show.

Sure those are generic reasons as to why I love it, but I do. There is something about going to these shows and then seeing these guys show up on television a few years later and you can say "I saw him wrestle at the local Eagles Club" or something along those lines.

Too many "spot apes".

well, there goes the opportunity for an actual discussion on the subject

All thanks to me!... that's pretty much the reason though. Every guy under 220 lbs. will try to fly around and pretend there is no such thing as gravity only to fuck up 90% of the time.

There's 2 reasons why people don't like indy wrestling:

1) They don't watch it, therefore they assume it sucks.
2) Indy wrestling fans.

and
3) RoH fans think they are smart as hell but sound like complete morons. Especially when RoH came to Phoenix on Mania weekend. They chanted "Fuck Wrestlemania" but they were the same fans that had come from out of state and even from out of the country FOR Wrestlemania.

That's cleary within the bounds of #2.

Like... clearly.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say a good chunk of it is lack of familiarity with the wrestlers. I was personally hooked into my first ROH show because of the Dragon Gate wrestlers I knew who were going to be there. Besides them, I knew Daniels, Danielson (barely), and Samoa Joe to an extent. Going in, I had pretty much no clue who a lot of the people were, therefore, my excitement wasn't really there.

Granted that changes when you start watching the matches.

I think once people get a feel for the wrestlers, it's a little different. The problem is, a wrestling show is essentially a roller coaster, but a bizarro one because the big hill should be at the end. When you don't know the people, it's really hard to have that emotional investment in the show.

Besides that theory, it doesn't help that indy and TNA fans give indy fans a bad rap. And while the stereotype is valid to some extent (yes, there are fat, smelly indy fans who will probably never get laid), a lot of indy fans aren't that different then your typical 16- 30 wrestling fans, the only major difference is that they enjoy indy wrestling.

Incorrect.

It really depends what you're watching. Yes, a decent amount of indy guys will do dives and what not, but it's not a huge part of the match. Of course, there are the occasional flippy idiots (Jack Evans, etc), but they're getting fewer and farther between in the higher up indys (ROH, PWG, heck, even Evolve).

The other, bigger problem, are the insane reversal/ bump spots. I'm talking about where guys would each give huge moves to each other one after theo ther, and pretty much no sell everything for a minute, before a final big move where both collapse on the ground. ROH was a huge offender for this awhile back, but it's gotten better too.

What it ultimately comes down to is PSYCHOLOGY. A good chunk of indy wrestlers have it, a good chunk don't. A larger chunk are on par and passable.

My favorite indy guy is Johhny Gargano!

Perfect example of the stupid insane move spot I was talking about is this, about 40 seconds in. Honestly, this is an amazing match, and anyone who hasn't seen it should check it out in it's entirety. Nevertheless, I thought this exchange was brutal, and not in a good way.

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Also, that's obviously not indy, but you get the point.

Wow, look an actual, thought out opinion, who thought that was possible from a member of TPWW, WWKD?, I applaud you.

I think you're pretty much right about the name recognition though. People don't know them, and it can take a show or two to really become invested. The biggest problem coming from a lot of indy fans is that they the absolute worst smarks out there. It's a lot better when you can talk to another indy fan and not hear "I would have done this and this" and instead hear "That was a great show tonight, the match between _____ & ______ was definitely the best".

You need to be able to suspend your disbelief if you really want to enjoy indy wrestling in my opinion. Unfortunately there are people that don't know how to do that.

Or over the top sells, i hate those too.

yea that was pretty brutal in a bad way

I don't mind indy wrestling. It's pretty much like WWKD said, I feel it mostly comes down to not really knowing who any of the wrestlers are.

FYI I'm a proud Chikara fan.

That's called Michael Cole Syndrome

I find myself agreeing with this to a degree. Genetics play a big part of wrestling and fortunately/unfortunately, not everyone can be the 6'6, 290lb monster. So you have to find your place with how you're going to wrestle. And quite a few think 'that high-flying stuff looks easy enough'.

I also tend to disagree about that being a point because it all comes down to experience in the ring. Yes, 90% of the time, they'll botch what they were trying to do, but give them a few months, that number drops down to 80%. Another few months, 75% and so on. Nobody walks into the ring and becomes a Rey Mysterio overnight.

I think the significant reason for independent 'hatred' is quite simply, they're not as polished. Disregarding the current women's wrestling situation, the majority of wrestlers that are called and displayed on TV are polished, their ringwork is refined to where it's fluid and crisp. You watch that on TV, then you go to a independent show where everyone's still cutting their teeth and you're going to make unfair comparsions.

WWKD?: Is that the match where Marufuji catches his throat on the guardrail when diving on KENTA?

I think this needs one caveat though. The wrestlers you see on tv are MUCH more restricted. Not only in what they can and can't do, but in timing. At an indy show, I doubt the promoter is going to give two shits if they finish 3 minutes late. On tv, they're going to get chewed out. So, in WWE for example, yes, they're more fluid, but they may not have as many options.

The only time I really notice this a lot is when people botch things. In WWE it seems like if someone botches something, they're not quite sure what to do, and heck, once in awhile they'll try to run the exact same spot. In the indy's a lot, it seems like they'll just go with the flow, work around it, and come back to it a different way if need be.

Take for example the one tag match that happened awhile back with Orton and Jericho on opposite sides, and Jericho had someone in the WoJ, and Orton ran, tried to his the RKO, but Jericho didn't budge and Orton went flying awkwardly... He just got up and did the exact same thing, which didn't make much sense at all. Especially when he ran right past them again to bounce off the ropes again, etc.

Yep, that's the one.

Because all of the WWE match is scripted. The indy matches are a bit "free-style" until the final 2-4 minutes. Then the finish is scripted. I guess WWE wrestlers are scared to get chewed up if they don't re-do their original spot.

And that's shitty IMO. I think Cornette hit the nail right on the head when during one of the Ultimate X matches in TNA, the X fell, and everyone stood around looking like idiots because they didn't know what the hell to do. Improvise dumbasses! Dive for the X.

Id love to see more Indie matches from the United States cuz I am not familiar with anything not on TV sadly. Even ROH I am clueless. Any vids will get rep and my sincere thanks.

God, I hate watching that moment. I've been close to wrestlers who have miscalculated their dive and caught a leg on the railing, making an ugly leg-meets-metal sound. To get that sound in my head when he catches himself by the throat... ugh, I feel sick just thinking about it. I'm amazed he could continue to wrestle.

Regarding your earlier post: No debating here, I'm not saying that WWE is flawless with their style of wrestling due to restrictions but they offer less chances of messing something up in the ring by limiting them.

Seems like something goes wrong in the ring as well, that everyone seems to get frustated much more quicker rather than on the independent circuit where they just improvise. You see WWE Superstar A about to do a DDT to WWE Superstar B to finish the match. Superstar B messed up the move and it looks more ugly. Superstar A cracks the shit, performs another move to finish the match and then as they're suppose to be celebrating, they're giving death glares to Superstar B.

Again, not saying that the independent circuit is free of 'You stupid motherfucker, you botched the ending of the match, I hate your fucking guts right now' looks after matches are over but it seems they're cooler heads. Perhaps it's the whole being televisied thing, that they must know that that bad performance is forever on record and they have to live with it.

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He almost died for real, as in real life.
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Just a guess here... you wouldn't happen to be a fan of Johnny Gargano, would you?

Yeah, you're 100% right on the unfamiliarity towards the wrestlers. Going into the EVOLVE show I went to I had no clue who 90% of the talents were (and not being an indy follower in general made it that much harder) but I let the wrestling speak for itself. I walked out with a huge interest in the indies and a fan of at least one wrestler who I had never heard of before that night.

Sure, there were some matches I was like "meh, whatever", but you're going to get that on any show. And the sentiment on the crazy spots is definitely a factor for me. I'm not a huge fan of high spot matches with little rhyme or reason and no selling, and there's A LOT of that on the indies, as has been said. I'm okay with one or two matches like that and can enjoy them, but not entire cards.

You have to give it a chance. Some people are going to like certain styles and some aren't. In the main stream, there's one style and only one style. Some people are going to like it, some won't. On the indies, every style is there in certain promotions. Want entertainment? Watch Chikara. Want a balanced wrestling card? Watch EVOLVE. Want high flying? Dragon Gate. Want a mixture? Watch ROH.

http://www.youtube.com/user/ROHBrazil

There's a bunch of ROH on HDNet shows. ROH pretty much lets that account upload all there HDNet shows.

I guess you saw this above:

I find it interesting that you were really impressed with Jimmy Jacobs at the Evolve show, as after my first ROH show he was the guy I walked away loving as well.

Also, for the uninformed, here is Jimmy Jacob's new, 3 part "Jimmy Jacobs Revealed" vignettes for DGUSA, and his upcoming match with John Moxely. Not sure how much of this is embellished, but I really do find it hard not to love this kid.

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Yeah. It wasn't so much the in-ring work itself (which was great) but his attention to detail on the little things and his psychology in general. As I said, a lot like Punk in that respect.

I feel ya. When I saw him it was the night of the freakish powerbomb botch with BJ Whitmer.

Basically, they were both on the top rope, Jimmy with his back to the ring, BJ facing the ring, and BJ went to powerbomb Jimmy off the top. He lifted him up, and BJ slipped, basically falling backwards out of the ring with Jimmy, who essentially hit the ropes/apron with his head, then the floor.

The entire place was dead quite because everyone thought Jimmy was essentially dead. When BJ rolled him into the ring and pinned him, and Jimmy kicked out, the place went crazy. One of the freakiest and coolest moments I've ever seen at a wrestling show ever.

lol holy shit.

I may have missed that post. :$

As a supporter of you and your deeds, I want to suggest that you not be so hostile. Sure, some people will always give joke responses but, hey, that just adds fun in the mix.