You know, what CM Punk is doing right now...
 

...isn't really that different from what Vince Russo was doing towards the end of WCW.

Just saying.

Yeah, the big difference in this case is that Punk isn't making all kinds of references that nobody will understand and when he does use something a bit more esoteric he tends to explain what he's talking about.

Not to mention Punk is an actual wrestler, so all the things he says eventually build-up to a match.

Punk is doing it in a much better way though, obviously. Instead of saying "Cena, you're booked like Superman to beat everyone", he says "You've been given countless opportunities". He's thankfully smart enough not to come out and say that the outcome of the matches are pre-determined and it's not a competition, unlike Russo and everyone else in WCW at the time.

The difference is that, while what he's saying works on people who understand where he's coming from, he does it in a way that it doesn't come across as being lost on casual fans. Casual fans can relate, and smarter fans who get the references get it on another level. So it's fine.

As said, if he was saying how everything is pre-determined and that he's being booked this way, it would be pretty terrible. But he's not, and it works on multiple levels. So it is the same but still very, very different. Honestly, this is the way inside stuff SHOULD be done. Not the Russo way where everyone is confused as to WTF they're referencing and you're beaten over the head about how something is "real".

Also, Punk ALWAYS brings it back to the title. While what Punk is saying is "inside" stuff to a degree (and true), it's always been about the title and the pride that comes with walking out with the championship, whether at MITB or SummerSlam. If this were Russo, the titles would be props, not the centerpiece of the angle.

Russo's stuff was stupid. It was so forced. It wasn't organic at all. Like who was Russo shooting against? He was in charge. He wasn't playing off anybody.

Also, CM Punk isn't blowing everything up, stripping titles, and resetting the main event picture with other random people out of the blue.

What if Punk just came out for the Summerslam match and laid down in the middle of the ring, a la Jeff Jarrett?

I see your point Thrilla but disagree, Russo' shoot was for his own personal anger where as Punk's is more legit in the mainstream sense, and he backs it up with entertainment where as Russo just offered something worse in replacement.

depends on if he cut a sick promo about how Hulk Hogan is a faggot afterwards

Nobody would like that.

And not in the "good heel/Roddy Piper" way, more in the Vince Russo end of WCW/David Arquette winning the WCW title way.

also Mark Madden isn't involved, so that helps

All in the execution.

Punk is naturally more entertaining, but was his original contract dispute not based on something selfish?

I mean, I guess I really don't know the actual backstage details, but it's possible that Punk's frustration turned into a thing of beauty, whilst Russo's turned into a bucket of doo doo.

Really, it's a testament to Punk's talent, I suppose. He seems to "get" wrestling more than Russo did, but it just makes you wonder what might have happened if Russo were a little better at...doing things. Thinking outside the box is one thing, but re-inventing the wheel is another.

Yeah man, I'm still disappointed with what Russo did with WCW too. :(

And since Russo was such big influence as a writer and character (either good or bad) there is no way his WCW angles didn't influence CM Punk subconsciously when he was a viewer.

It's true. Without Russo, there would be no CM Punk.

Also, my account has not been hacked by TNARick.

The message in the bottle is the same, the difference is the vessel.

Russo was the melted plastic bottle that washed up as garbage on the shore of WCW mediocrity.

Punk is the well designed bottle that ensures that the message not only gets there, but gets there in style.

Russo...

http://www.thomasnet.com/articles/im...le-crushed.jpg

Punk...

http://en.shiwaiyuan.com/assets/imag...0-Gift-Box.jpg

:nono:

What was I thinking...

http://whitecrane.typepad.com/.a/6a0...fab0970c-800wi

Another factor is the internet. It would seem logical that there are more internet fans in 2011 than there were in 2001, so a lot of the behind-the-scenes references probably make more sense today than they did ten years ago.

If Punk had said all his 'you have 'yes men' like John Lauranaitis' ten years ago, I wouldn't have had a clue what he was talking about.

In that respect, Ramm, Matt Hardy was way ahead of his time. Throw out the fact that he exposed himself as a serious douche nozzle and has become the TPWW whipping boy: Matt had been trying to get himself over via the internet since the days of AOL. Some of his "antics" were pre-Bash Russo, which made it even more obscure. Wasn't until the Lita/Edge mess years later until it gained any kind of steam, and even then, it wasn't nearly the impact that someone like Zack Ryder has now.

Back to Russo, other things were kind of in play too... like the fact that even thereabouts 2001, there was still this idea that you were supposed to protect kayfabe, and he just 100% flew in the face of that. Now, even a vast majority of casuals know it's scripted, but the thing is, they don't care. They accept the "wrestling universe" as it is instead of thinking hardcore wrestling is exactly the same as MMA.

The best comparison I can draw on Russo in this respect is something I once heard about what Kanye West said about Bush during the whole Katrina aftermath. They said "...you knew he had the platform and wanted to say something profound, but, what came out was- not so much."

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if Russo were as good on the mic as someone like CM Punk or Steve Austin (in knowing what and what not to say while still voicing his displeasure) we wouldn't be so apt to crap on the worked shoot portion of what was going on in WCW near the end.

The booking, for the most part, was still shit. So, there's that.

Lance Storm was getting himself over on the internet before anybody.

Oddly enough, seems that's true. And that isn't even what he was trying to do.

It makes sense that a guy with no charisma would thrive in a medium where everyone sounds exactly the same.

The difference is, CM Punk's dick is thoroughly lodged in my esophagus.

Actually, that's pretty much always the difference, so you can just copy-paste that when another one of these threads comes up.

Another factor is that Russo was writing it himself, with no filter, even from himself. In the end of the day, Punk knows what to say and what not to say, and a part of that comes from knowing what WWE wants. He knows how to push the envelope without it disintegrating.

Punk also has massive amounts of respect for the business as wrestling, and that brings it to a whole other level. Russo never had that kind of respect for pro wrestling.

This argument is like comparing an orange to a lemon. They're similar, but one is sweeter and much more delicious to digest than the other.

Thats deep.

Thank you, I've said it before that this whole thing is feeling very "Russo"ish.

Steve Blackman allowed the internet to go over.

Its not like Russo invented the worked shoot. Paul Heyman had already mastered worked shoots while Russo was still playing Vic Venom on wwf.com. If anything, this current angle is very Heyman-esque. And seeing as how Heyman brought Punk to the WWE, this shouldn't come as a surprise to anybody.

fuck, well the angle is blown for me now

The difference that makes it important is that Punk is a WRESTLER who has paid is dues and actually likes Wrestling, where as Vince Russo was a loud sack of brooklyn shit who hates the "sport" and has no respect.

Also, Punk is a wrestler who is unhappy with how the company he works for is using him. Russo is unhappy with how the company he runs (kayfabe anyway) is being run.

Russo also over did the shoots without any real payoff and when he did try to have some sort of payoff it usually ended up being a big mess when he got involved in the ring.

With Punk at least everyone knows his issues revolves around Cena and the idea of everyone has to be a "yes" man to management. He will make a side remark every so often but it usually concerns one of those 2 issues and not a bunch of random stuff Russo did near the end of WCW.

Can someone tell me the reason why CM Punk and John Cena wrestled on Raw this week at all? I watched the episode a couple hours ago, and then read the comments in the Raw thread about how bad the crowd was. It is no surprise to me, it is because they blew their load in the first half of the show. CM Punk should not be shown more than once every episode, and also it should not be before the last 25 minutes of each show. If they continue with the way they are booking him, he is going to lose his steam and people will stop caring. I really wish they didn't rush his return just so they had a decent main event for Summerslam

If they keep him off TV until the last 25 mins of the show each week, people will eventually not even bother with the other 95 mins of the show