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-   -   Is there still a place in profesional wrestling for a submission artist? (https://www.tpwwforums.com/showthread.php?t=80698)

Renaissance man 06-22-2008 09:33 AM

Is there still a place in profesional wrestling for a submission artist?
 
The Dean Malenko, Kurt Angle mold of wrestler that takes time to destroy an opponent not this one move and its all over wrestler like *spits on the ground* cena- has wrestling left the submission style wrestler behind?

thoughts and comments welcome

NeanderCarl 06-22-2008 09:34 AM

Simply, yes there is.

NeanderCarl 06-22-2008 09:35 AM

Executed properly and with conviction, a submission guy will always get over.

Any style will get over if treated well by the bookers and, most importantly, the commentators.

Kane Knight 06-22-2008 10:56 AM

Kurt Angle seems to do it well enough.

Kane Knight 06-22-2008 10:58 AM

Also, plenty of submission wrestlers have busted their submission moves out of nowhere and made them tap. Benoit did it plenty, as did Angle. Not all the time (Especially not Benoit), but submissions can be "one move and it's over" too.

Shall we spit on the ground when someone mentions Kurt?

I'd ask about Chris, but last I knew, Kurt didn't kill his wife and kid, so....

Rammsteinmad 06-22-2008 11:02 AM

Yes there is room. In WWE though? I doubt it.

Destor 06-22-2008 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Class Act Carl (Post 2196776)
Simply, yes there is.

What he said.

Also, Bryan Danielson.

RP 06-22-2008 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kane Knight (Post 2196818)
Also, plenty of submission wrestlers have busted their submission moves out of nowhere and made them tap. Benoit did it plenty, as did Angle. Not all the time (Especially not Benoit), but submissions can be "one move and it's over" too.

Shall we spit on the ground when someone mentions Kurt?

I'd ask about Chris, but last I knew, Kurt didn't kill his wife and kid, so....

yet

Gertner 06-22-2008 01:49 PM

Chris made Nanacy and his son submit.

Kane Knight 06-22-2008 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rammsteinmad (Post 2196820)
Yes there is room. In WWE though? I doubt it.

Let's not forget an important element.

Kurt Angle entertained the fans. Even Benoit did. Is there room in WWE? Yeah. It's been done, and probably not for the last time. Will it happen frequently? No. Why? Because most submission wrestlers are "boring" by the standards of the WWE's fans. And wrestling fans in general.

Submission wrestlers main event when they're "worth it." Now, WWE (and wrestling in general) doesn't always measure "worth" in the same way the fans do, let alone specific groups, but honestly, it's not like sumbission artists never make it to the top (Let alone find room).

Rammsteinmad 06-22-2008 02:54 PM

Oh totally. Don't get me wrong, I know it's been done before, and probably one day will be done again. I was really just referring to the state of WWE today.

Kane Knight 06-22-2008 04:22 PM

I dunno. It's just not like we're exactly far removed from it.

Hell, Regal was getting pushed, though he's more a chain wrestler which is a style hardly respected by your average fan. He was only yanked from the show because he was a retard and "took the wrong supplements."

What really matters is finding wrestlers who can entertain a crowd that doesn't consist entirely of <s>Trekkies</s> Smarks.

NeanderCarl 06-22-2008 04:48 PM

They already have a submission artist. His name is The Undertaker.

:shifty:

Xero 06-22-2008 04:52 PM

Yeah, "There's that choking move again" is awesome.

Kane Knight 06-22-2008 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xero Limit 126 (Post 2197080)
Yeah, "There's that choking move again" is awesome.

You mean the moogoogaipan?

NeanderCarl 06-22-2008 06:48 PM

I like HBK's inverted figure four, but to get these moves over they have to bust them out and win matches with them more than once a year.

Outsider 06-22-2008 08:25 PM

There is no reason that a submission artist can't have an 'impact' move as a secondary finisher as well.

The problem is that even when a wrestler has a submission, the WWE seem reluctant to actually let them win with it, unless they are called Cena. I think they are of the view that having someone submit makes them look weak.

U-Warrior 06-22-2008 08:30 PM

I wouldn't call Kurt Angle a submission artist, tbh. At least not in the same vein as Malenko and Danielson.

Kane Knight 06-22-2008 09:12 PM

He was listed amidst the first post, so it seems like a reasonable vein of thought.

MCEazy 06-22-2008 10:02 PM

outside of wwe yes. If there was someone that was a submission artist to make it in wwe, they'd really have to hold up their end on the mic and charisma, tho as KK said, wwe fans find submission wrestlers boring and would rather watch spot monkeys.

Xero 06-22-2008 10:08 PM

Benoit had no mic skills.

MCEazy 06-22-2008 10:11 PM

well i mean in this day and age of the wwe.

The Optimist 06-22-2008 10:22 PM

Sure. It'll be rare, but it can get over just like any other style. Regal got all of his King of the Ring victories by submission.

U-Warrior 06-23-2008 02:00 AM

Angle uses the ankle lock as his finisher. Thats it. One move. Not what I'd call a "submission artist". Malenko and Danielson have ended many matches with submissions other than their signatures.

Angle is more a combination Mat Technichan/Suplex Machine, with a submission finisher. A lot of times, he won't even work the leg during the match.

Destor 06-23-2008 02:12 AM

Fignuts knows

Kane Knight 06-23-2008 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by U-Warrior (Post 2197505)
Angle uses the ankle lock as his finisher. Thats it. One move. Not what I'd call a "submission artist". Malenko and Danielson have ended many matches with submissions other than their signatures.

Angle is more a combination Mat Technichan/Suplex Machine, with a submission finisher. A lot of times, he won't even work the leg during the match.

So...Your submission skills are based upon your finisher?

Xero 06-23-2008 08:23 AM

If we're going by the criteria that a "Submission Artist" is someone who uses no more than two non-submission moves per match, no. No there is not.

Kane Knight 06-23-2008 08:26 AM

Xero Knows.

Destor 06-23-2008 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xero Limit 126 (Post 2197620)
If we're going by the criteria that a "Submission Artist" is someone who uses no more than two non-submission moves per match, no. No there is not.

I can't think of single wrestler in the history of ever that matches that discription.

Kane Knight 06-23-2008 08:45 AM

Kinda seems like the point thurr.

Destor 06-23-2008 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xero Limit 126 (Post 2197620)
If we're going by the criteria that a "Submission Artist" is someone who uses no more than two non-submission moves per match, no. No there is not.

Would be a cool gimmick though. Constanly going for the pain of it. COuld be cool-ish.


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