QUESTION - In your opinion, what makes a great FACE in today's Wrestling Era?
 

QUESTION - In your opinion, what makes a great FACE in today's Wrestling Era?

Just off the top of your head, who are you current FIVE (5) favorite wrestlers in Wrestling? Here are mine:

1) Randy Orton
2) Santino Marella
3) Chris Jericho
4) Christian (when he makes his comeback to the WWE)
5) CM Punk

Honorable mention: Edge

So basically, that's 5 out 6 HEELS that make up my favorite wrestlers in the WWE. I'm also assuming that there are many others out there that have an abundance of heels as their favorite WWE characters. Here's my question:

What can the WWE (or the Wrestling Industry in general) do to make their faces more.....accepted? (if that's the right term).

Right now? I would argue that the WWE does a tremendous job of pushing heels, but does a very POOR job of pushing faces.

At the end of 2007 - I proposed an idea that perhaps EVERY wrestler should start acting heelish (which would then naturally bring out the personalities of all wrestlers since it's easier to do this as a heel), and then have the fans basically decide who they want to cheer for. As good as that sounds in theory however, it is not very realistic....and hence fast forward to 2009, I no longer have that train of thought. However - there are certain things which I still believe from that time period....which I now want to share with you today.

Hunter Heyman Hindu's solutions into creating better faces:

• Do NOT have faces kiss the asses of the fans at all. This was one of the main reasons why guys like Kurt Angle, Brock Lesnar, Randy Orton, Dave Batista, Eddie Guerrero, John Cena,.....and even The Rock, all started to lose major steam as faces (although in The Rock's case, it probably had more to do with the fact that his 'act' simply got stale)

• Since 1997, all/most great faces have always had an 'attitude' about them...and were very successful in portraying to the fans that, while they respected them, they weren't going to kiss their ass. Steve Austin, The Rock, Chris Jericho, Undertaker, Goldberg, RVD, and even John Cena (initially) were very good at this.

When you look at the WWE today, is it any coincidence that Undertaker STILL garners the largest one of the largest face reactions today?

Is it any coincidence that guys like John Cena, Dave Batista, Kurt Angle, Eddie Guerrero, Randy Orton (2004), Brock Lesnar (2002), Chris Jericho (1999-2000), Triple H (1999-2001), Steve Austin (1997), The Rock (1998-1999), all started to garner HUGE face pops (and a huge following) during their initial heel runs?

Sadly enough, is it any coincidence that a LOT of these above wrestlers "lost their steam" once they turned face?......and started sucking up to the fans? John Cena, Randy Orton, Brock Lesnar, Eddie Guerrero, and Kurt Angle were the worst 'victims' of this in my opinion.

Even Chris Jericho, after all of his post 2001 face runs, could never re-capture his initial popularity due to the fact that he was kissing the fans' asses. After his 2001 heel run, Steve Austin also struggled to re-capture his old face pops....largely due to the fact that he was kissing ass and being overly predictable.

Notice how in 2003, it took The Rock less than FIVE (5) weeks to recapture all of his old face pops and fan base? (due to the awesomeness of his heel turn....where his personality shined and he didn't kiss the fans' ass).

An argument can be made that guys like CM Punk, Jeff Hardy, and Dave Batista enjoy success as faces today, because their lack of mic skills actually PREVENTS them from kissing the fans' ass (which prevents the fans from turning on them). Heck - remember last year around this time when Batista was starting to get boo'd? (he was kissing the fans' ass). Notice how when he came to RAW and started acting more 'badass', he reclaimed a lot of his pops?

Perhaps a large reason why Ken Kennedy has fallen so far off the map (other than the fact that he's injury prone), is due to the fact that he COMPLETELY lost his charisma upon turning face.

Having said all this - I have high hopes for this current personna of Randy Orton. I truly believe that the WWE has struck gold with Orton....and that Orton will keep his current personna....which will garner more and more gradual face pops. At this point, I don't see the WWE screwing up Orton as they did in 2004 (i.e. making him kiss the fans' ass).

Maybe not now...but sometime in the future, I think a Face Orton vs. Heel John Cena will be a feud for the ages....as both men, amazingly enough, will get popped huge.

I think the face role was redefined in such a powerful way by Stone Cold Steve Austin and to a lesser extent The Rock.
I honestly think the way they changed face/heel roles and crowd reaction is yet to be completely figured out by wrestling promoters.

They walked a fine line. The heels became the faces, but when you make a heel a face it just don't quite work nowadays. And when you turn a face heel they start getting more and more over with the crowd.
The crowds have been allowed to root along their own lines, and it causes a strange relationship between booing and cheering.

I'd have to give it more thought, but I think a great face in todays era is defined by being a guy the crowd chose to cheer for. They're not defined by their kayfabe actions, but their look and work. If it just so happens that they're a face, then they fit the role much better...like Jeff Hardy.
If they're over for being a heel, they shouldn't change them to a wheaties box hero. They should leave it be. If they want them to play a face they shouldn't change a thing about them. They must find ways to make the people around them heelish.
For instance, when it was decided that Austin was to be a face, he never changed. They just changed Bret's character to compliment Austin's, and booked it around the crowd.
They did the same with Vince. Austin never changed.

Same with The Rock. He stayed exactly the same. The crowd eventually started cheering him a year into his heel run, so they just booked the storyline around him to have him in the corporation. His gig didn't change.
And when he turned face again, nothing about him changed. The heels around him just started being against him rather than with him and he filled the face role.

Nowadays they change the character, and not the state of the show around them.

Excellent post...and I agree with all/most of it.

I also agree that Austin 3:16 pretty much changed the way the fans perceived faces.

Before 1997, it was all about being "the good guy". Saying your prayers, eating your vitamins, drinking your milk, being honorable, etc., etc. Guys like Hulk Hogan and Bret Hart fit those definitions to a tee.

Once Austin came along however, it became all about PERSONALITY and the CHARACTER.

In other words - fans weren't cheering faces nearly as much as they were cheering awesome characters. More times than not however, heels had an easier time being an awesome character because it allowed them to showcase their personality more.

I am sure that the WWE are aware of this trend (how could they not?!??!!), but they simply choose not to change their ways....and as result, have had many wildly successful heels fall flat as faces since 2001.

The truly amazing thing, is that I truly believe that John Cena will start to get massive face pops again once he turns heel....which allow him to be more creative in what he says....which in effect, will make him an awesome character. Sadly enough, I also think the Santino Marella's day's as an awesome character might be coming to an end.....as the WWE might try and convert him into a face due to his positive crowd reactions.

then go do it you orange fuck

dribble

What makes a great face?















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5 Favourite:
1. Triple H.
2. Randy Orton
3. Chris Jericho
4. Edge
5. CM Punk

What makes a good face:
Overcoming Teh Oddz.

Not John Cena!

The crowd should be dictating heel/face positions to begin with. They pay the money, they should run the show. This is logic. You can't 'sell' good and bad guys like they're action figures. This is a user-creation nation now, if something sucks we will go elsewhere. WWE probably thinks they're in a position to shove a PG-rated DX and John Cena down our throats, and it has worked, but that won't last as long as they want it to. The biggest offense to me was taking Cena, who we made a face, and restructuring him as if the turn was their idea.

I have to agree with Kalyx about the fans deciding who they like. Back in the 80's they could easily position people in the face or heel camps. The Attitude Era changed things. You can't put Austin's run down to Vince, it goes down to the fans. You can however give kudos to Vince for realising what he had in Austin and running with it.

Sadly, today is very different. It seems Vince is hellbent on pushing his guy the way he likes - the fans be damned. I wonder if Cena would still be a face if he was around between 98 - 2001?

It's fairly simple. Some fans will back who they like, the rest will more than likely follow if you continue to book them in the correct way. We're seeing it with Orton right now. He's a heel - calculated, violent, remorseless (up until the IED thing). All they have to do to turn Orton face is have him punt the likes of JBL or Jericho instead of HBK or Punk.

Good post.

Speaking of Cena however - if he were in the Attitude Era, I genuinely do think the guy would be a HUGE face (:eek: - yes you read that right). Few reasons:

1) The writers catered towards an older demographic at this time (i.e. people in their late teens). This, combined with the fact that the WWE didn't have the PG label, would've allowed Cena to do his 'battle raps' far more....and not be as restricted in what he could say.

2) Rap in general was far more popular during this era than it is now. Cena's gimmick would have been very unique and he would've been very over as result.

In the PG market it seems like the key to a good face is to have him wrestle the best possible match. That's it. Just about everything else they've tried, gimmick-wise, has fallen flat. Sure, you've got your Charlie Haas, but he's not going to be more than a comedy character in that gimmick.

If you take a heel, you can have him promo, let the crowd hate him, let him wrestle, then slowly let the crowd turn him face. That way he keeps the same bad ass heel gimmick, but is now a face.

I personally can't stand suck-up faces. The ones that are bad ass heels, but when they turn face, they start to kiss the fans asses. That is part of the reason I don't like Cena since he the epitome of that. And I fear the same thing is starting to happen to Mr Kennedy. It just seems that WWE especially likes to pull the trigger and decide to completely ruin a character which got them over in the first place.

CM Punk is the example of a pretty good face, if only he could show more of his personality like I know he can. But I also think he could be a much better heel.

It's not that hard really.

Look at "The Dark Knight" as an example. Highest grossing film of the year, bar none, and it's about a hero (who is a bad ass) who broods from the shadows and takes out the bad guys while at the same time totally disregarding the law. The most important thing is that he follows his own rules, his own code, and people like seeing that because in real life, you can't do that. You follow particular rules or you go to jail.

Wrestling can be the same way. Austin didn't follow anyone's rules but his own. Undertaker does whatever the fuck he wants. Austin, Undertaker and Batman are also all quite violent, which I believe is another major factor in a face character in today's wrestling world. You must strike back against your foes and strike back hard.

If Jericho came out and cut a promo about how the fans suck and are mindless sycophants, Cena would come out and talk about how they "make the WWE" and how "the fans are the stars," a bunch of hyperbole, goody two shoes face bullshit. He does that all the time, when what he should be doing is running out and hitting him in the face with a fucking chair. He should blast him with the five knuckle shuffle and say fuck you and then leave. It's a clear message: this is the good guy. He doesn't need to tell us how good he is.

Jeff Hardy has been doing great with this lately. Less talk, more action, do your own thing and fuck the rest. And it's working for him.

It's more than just Austin.

Jake "the Snake" Roberts was initially turned face for the same reason: He was a heel who could talk, didn't take shit, and had a huge fucking snake. He also had Damien. :shifty:

Seriously, He had matches with Hogan where the crowd was split between Hulkamania and this Diabolical Evil Heel. And this was in the '80s!

Also, the first Undertaker face turn in '92 is like this. He was this brutal monster heel that had this aura of coolness. He was this scary dude, but kind of a cool scary dude. Fans reacted positively to it, Vince had no choice BUT to run with it.

I guess the biggest question that comes to my mind is this:

Are the WWE completely naive of these 'facts' (i.e. what it really takes to make a great face?), or do they simply choose not to go this route? (perhaps due to the fact that they want the 'goody goody kiss ass' faces due to the PG requirements).

I refuse to believe nobody in the creative is thinking along our lines. My guess is a lot of shit gets shot down.

The Non-McMahon that heads WWE Creative, IIRC, is a guy who only knows one thing: Who to suck up to in order to get ahead.

But what can I say, he's a Dynamic Dude, his brother is an Animal, and his nephew is probably gonna be a big star in the NFL.