Originally Posted by ESPN.com
ESPN: I like how you always tried to stay in character no matter what happened. I remember one of the first wrestling matches I ever went to was at the Cow Palace, and when The Hart Foundation came out, there was so much heat that some sloppy drunk dumped this huge beer over Jimmy Hart's head. All I can remember is how hard you were trying not to laugh, and every time you and Anvil glanced at each other, you kept burying your head in the turnbuckle so the audience couldn't see you smile.
Bret Hart: I remember walking to the back after a match, and sometimes when they pelt you with beer, it's actually a pretty good feeling. You needed that cold beer. [laughs]
ESPN: Your matches with Shawn Michaels are legendary in the sport, both for what happened in the ring and out. Did the hatred you guys had for one another fuel even more competitive matches?
Bret Hart: I think it did for us, but I also think Vince orchestrated a lot of the tensions between us. I think a lot of the tension was good for the matches, but for me, I was always a professional and I prided myself on my professionalism in and out of the ring. Shawn, I think of him today pretty much how I did back then, and a lot of the resentment and jealousy from Shawn were just things that he kept inside. I would go out and tell Shawn how I was about to go out and in my interview I was going to talk about him posing for Playgirl or I'm going to rag on him being a role model. He'd smile and tell me to say whatever I wanted, and it was like we were pals. But then I'd go out and say all that stuff, and when I came back into the dressing room, it was like he was going to burst into tears. It wasn't like I was saying all this stuff and he didn't know about it. I cleared it all with him before.
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Unfortunately for Shawn, he kind of got worked into a shoot. I was just trying to sell tickets and make money with him. I told him where I was going with all of it. I always thought the way to go with me and Shawn was for him to tough out that storm, to keep defending himself, then eventually he would beat me and prove himself and everyone would appreciate him trying to win my confidence. But he got worked into it where he started taking everything personal, then he started getting personal with me for real. We'd shake hands and agree not to go there anymore, but then the next week, he was at it again. It's a shame to see what it turned into because if you look at how I wrestled Steve Austin back then, we looked like we hated each other and that we were going to kill each other if we ever stepped into the same ring, but we were best of friends. Shawn and I could've had the same thing. I was telling him how we would sell tickets if people believed we hated each other, and it was going that way, and we probably would still be selling tickets today if they'd gone that route. But Vince was setting me up for the fall.
Vince knew that he was going to screw me from the time I came back after my little hiatus after Wrestlemania 12. I think Vince set it in motion so that he could drop the bomb on me at any time. He was just going to do it when the time was right for him, and that's what he did. He lowered the boom on me when I didn't expect it, and the whole thing turned into what it did. But I was just trying to draw money for him. People always say that Vince didn't have any choice, but it's totally not true. According to my contract back then, I had to wrestle 280 days a year for Vince McMahon. By the time I wrestled Shawn at Survivor Series that year where they screwed me out of the title, I had already worked something like 310 shows. I didn't even need to be there. I could've just told Vince that I already did my dates according to my contract. I could've told him to just take his belt and shove it and walk out. But I was a professional and I was giving him everything I could. I really didn't even have a problem losing the belt, but Shawn didn't have any respect for me and I didn't have any respect for him.
ESPN: After the match, you got an amazingly clean punch in on McMahon backstage. When did you hit him harder, with that punch or back in the strip club incident with The Hart Foundation?
Bret Hart: The punch. It was an uppercut and it was a little bit like that Buster Douglas punch on Mike Tyson. Maybe a little better than that if you can believe it.
ESPN: How important was it for you to be inducted into the Hall of Fame?
Bret Hart: I wish I would've waited a couple more years. I actually told Vince this, but he wanted me to do it then so it timed out right with my DVD. I was glad that they did my DVD with me, as that was one of the sources of my bitterness for a while as I thought they might take everything I ever did and put it in a vault somewhere and nobody would ever see it. So when he consented to doing the DVD with me having final approval on it, I was trying my best to show them that I appreciated it and I was trying to work with them the best I could. So I obliged, but I still wish I would've waited a couple more years because I was never happy with how I did that day.
They did talk to me about inducting Owen and Stu someday. They asked me if I would do it, and I told them I'd be happy to do it, just let me know. I haven't heard from them, but maybe one of these days.
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It's actually ridiculous to me why anyone would even take steroids in wrestling. It's not even a real sport. It's not necessary, it's strictly for the look.
” -- Bret Hart
ESPN: When you look at some of the problems with the sport today, do you think more needs to be done to put a stop to pain killers and concussions, or is steroids still the main issue?
Bret Hart: The real problem is pain killers and prescription pills. I think they're actually testing for steroids properly, but I can think of about ten wrestlers who died specifically from taking Somas. Davey Boy, Curt Hennig, Crush. These were all people who underestimated the amount of pills they were taking. I never took Somas, but it's a muscle relaxer, and these guys are in so much pain, real pain, with their necks and backs and serious injuries. But when they took Somas after they worked that night, it was like heaven. Everything goes away, everything is relaxed. So instead of taking one Soma, they take about five, flush it down with some beer and they feel like a million bucks the next morning. People wonder why these guys get hooked on these things, but it's such a heavenly, blissful remedy for them. I'm so lucky I never got pulled into that. I never did take Somas or pain pills. I always shied away from that, but these other guys, you never thought they were going to die tomorrow. They were guys you'd see at night and you thought you'd see them in the morning. They overdosed and they're dead, and it's such a tragedy. These guys seemed to be in so much control of everything, but they underestimated their levels.
ESPN: How do you fix these problems? Should wrestling have a season, giving the guys an offseason to heal?
Bret Hart: I think the first thing wrestling needs is a union. They need a union to make sure, like airline pilots, that they get enough time down to rest and recover. They need to recover from the physical toll that it takes to be a professional wrestler. But the truth is, I don't know. It's hard to test anyone for these pills like Soma. They get out of your bloodstream so fast, by the time you test, they're already out of your system. That's the problem. If they are legal prescriptions from real doctors, how do you stop it? That's where Vince's hands were tied, and I think it's unfair to pin it on him.
And it's actually ridiculous to me why anyone would even take steroids in wrestling. It's not even a real sport. It's not necessary, it's strictly for the look. But when they started the drug testing in the early 90's, I wasn't on steroids and I didn't know anyone who was on steroids. I even remember Lex Luger looking pretty skinny after coming in from the bodybuilding league. He didn't have that puffy, bloated look that you get from steroids. And I remember a lot of people didn't even believe that he was off of steroids, and I always felt bad for him because he worked so hard to have this really great physique, but he was a little skinny because he wasn't all puffed up on the steroids. He never got any credit for it. But during that whole period, they completely wiped out steroids in WWE. It wasn't until after I knocked Vince out, it was 1997 and Vince said he was throwing the drug policy out the window. That opened the door for steroids, and that came from the fact that WCW had a joke for drug testing. I don't know who they even drug tested. They seemed to test all of the Mexican guys and all of the smallest guys on the roster and let Hulk Hogan do whatever he wanted. I think Vince found it really hard to compete against that at the time.
But for wrestlers, I don't think steroids made much of a difference at all. I wouldn't have paid to see Warrior or Hogan anyway, but I was always more about the wrestling. Once they introduced the serious drug testing, I was all for it. I was only worried about my body falling apart. It took me about two or three years, and I remember talking to Vince about three years into the drug testing on how we didn't even need steroids and that the whole thing was a myth. A lot of us actually believed that we'd fall apart without it, that we'd have more injuries, but over a period of time I realized that I didn't need them. I only lost about five pounds off steroids. It didn't make much difference to me. In fact, if you look at me after I stopped taking steroids, I looked better. I didn't look as puffy and bloated. Steroids are not a necessary requirement to be a professional wrestler.
ESPN: Your book did an amazing job of filling in the gaps of what happened to certain wrestlers and why they were suddenly fired for steroids or whatever.
Bret Hart: I remember Boris Zhukov comes up to me one time. He wasn't on any of the booking sheets, so he asked me what I thought he should do. So I told him he should go up to Vince and ask him point blank. I figured at least that way, you'd end up finding out the answer. So he goes into his meeting with Vince, then he walks out and comes over to me. He said Vince started laughing at him and said: "We forgot to tell you, you're fired." I remember Boris Zhukov had big tears in his eyes. He was crushed that nobody cared how hard he worked or his family or his situation. And that was one of the last times I ever saw him. That was the end of the road. Luckily, I did see him a few years after that and he became a trucker. But that's how it is. There's no where to go. There's no soft landing there. You're done. Good luck.
“
No one did the job better than I did. Nobody worked harder. Whatever the schedule is today, it doesn't compare to the schedule I had. I was working 300 days a year, sometimes twice a day, and at TV tapings, I was sometimes working three or four matches a night. I earned my money by working hard.
” -- Bret Hart
If you have an alcohol problem, a drug problem, or a steroid problem, too bad. And there were so many guys addicted to steroids back then. If you look at 1992, Summerslam, when I fought Davey Boy, you look at that card with guys like The Legion of Doom and Warrior, then you look at Survivor Series just a few months later and it was all about Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, and Marty Jannetty. It was all normal sized guys. All the steroid guys got dropped like nothing.
There were a lot of guys in the business who got dropped then had no where else to go. They didn't know how to have a life at home. That's one of the big problems with wrestling. These wrestlers go back home and they have depression issues and alcohol problems and marital problems and there is no one there to help them. A lot of guys made a lot of money, but nobody ever taught them how to put that money away. So there's a lot that can be done, and that's why I really wish there could be a union of some kind. Some kind of protection that helps wrestlers see their way after. That way a guy like Brian Adams, when he needed back surgery years after his career was over, there would be money there to help them. A lot of these guys don't realize that ten years down the road after their careers are over, that's when you start hurting and you need to get your neck done or your shoulder done. All these things come back to haunt you.
WWE has added a wellness program now to try and look after their retired wrestlers, and that is something that was greatly needed, but there are a lot more wrestlers out there wandering down that tragic highway who need help.
ESPN: How would you like wrestling fans to remember you?
Bret Hart: I'd like people to remember me as the best there is, the best there was ... I don't think anyone was better than me, maybe there were a few like Dynamite Kid and Curt Hennig, but I think I was really good in how I brought realism and athleticism to my wrestling style. I think I really made wrestling fun to watch with all the twists and turns. Vince McMahon said it on my DVD, that I was the greatest story teller in wrestling, and I think I was. When I watch other matches, I don't see the same types of story-telling ability. And I think what I want people to always remember about me is that I very rarely got hurt and I never, ever injured another wrestler. It was all about safety.
No one did the job better than I did. Nobody worked harder. Whatever the schedule is today, it doesn't compare to the schedule I had. I was working 300 days a year, sometimes twice a day, and at TV tapings, I was sometimes working three or four matches a night. I earned my money by working hard. Someone like Hulk Hogan, who refused to pass the torch to me, there's something wrong with trying to hold someone back who works that hard. I hope more people get a chance to read my book and see some of the backstabbing politics that I had to deal with and what I was really all about as a pro wrestler.
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