The most important question......
 

Who is the best pro professional wrestler ever?

I'm sure this thread has been done before, but I personally feel the answer is quite clear.

I'm not talking about the most charismatic, most technically-sound, best high-flyer, most entertaining, best promo cutter, best big money draw, best heel or face, or whatever.

I'm saying if you were to rate every wrestler in every possibe catoegory that you could judge them on (which I'm not asking you to do), who would come out on top?

Hulk Hogan? "Stone Cold" Steve Austin? Shawn Michaels? Ric Flair? The Rock? Bret Hart? Someone else?

Explain.....

For me, without question, The Best Wrestler Ever is Shawn Michaels

Hulk Hogan, because he made the bleached hair cool. While being bald.

For me, it comes down to Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock or Shawn Michaels. But I feel that each sort of falters in some areas. Honestly, though, I have to say that HBK excels in the most areas. The one I would most question is his ability to draw. Sadly, when I think talking about the "greatest ever," this is a pretty big point. If I was going to talk about the greatest movie ever, I probably wouldn't hold how well it did at the box office against it. But if I was going to talk about the greatest actor ever, I probably would take into consideration how much money their films made...

But I'd have to nominate Shawn Michaels, which surprises me. Austin would be my second pick.

cue final countdown

I completely agree with this..... only HBK coming on top doesn't really surprise me a great deal

I think Kurt Angle is probably the most well-rounded wrestler of all time. If WWE would have continued pushing him like they did out the gate, he'd really be something special by now.

Now, that's not to say that WWE 'used him poorly' or anything. I just think he could have been so much more. He can do heel. He can do face. He can do comedy. He can do serious. His in-ring skills are pretty much second to none. The crowd gets into him. He's got a legitimate background. Pretty much the total package (sorry Lex).

I'd place him just above Shawn Michaels. Bret Hart's probably my personal favorite of all time, but I think Kurt's the best all-around ever.

you make solid points..... can't argue with that...... :(

You don't have to. We're just discussing.

Steve Austin, Shawn Michaels or Kurt Angle. Def one of those three. Then would be Rock, Savage, Bret, Flair etc

I don't know why I eliminated Kurt Angle from the list. I think it was probably the drawing aspect. He would have probably drawn less than Shawn Michaels, wouldn't he? But other than that, I think Kurt Angle might be greater than Shawn Michaels, yes. He definitely deserves a right to be mentioned. In fact, I'd probably change my answer to him.

I really hope Angle finishes up his career in WWE. I miss him sorely. I don't really feel like watching TNA, though.

I would have to go with either HBK or Ric Flair. It is close in my book between the two. Both are great on a mic and can get whatever response they want from a crowd. I would have the give Shawn the edge because he is a better wrestler than Flair. All things considered...HBK. The man could feud with a broom and make it look good.

He had feuded with Mr Kennedy

Hogan is all you need.

No ones gonna mention TAKER?:-\:-\

Why would they?

I feel that Undertaker never gets the respect he deserves...... but he without question has the most successful gimmick of all-time.... tbh, I rate Undertaker above Savage, above Flair, and just below Hogan

I'll take a quasi-scientific approach... I'll make a top 5 list in each of the qualaties that I think make a pro-wrestler the best... Then I'll give points to each position 5 points to #1, 4 points to #2... and so on and so forth...

The qualaties are...

Most Charismatic
Best In-Ring Performer (from a Technical Stand Pouint)
Best In-Ring Performer (from a Story Telling Stand Point)
Best Mic-Worker
Biggest Draw
Willingness/Capability to Play Heel or Face

Most Charismatic
1. The Rock (5 pts.)
2. Ric Flair (4 pts.)
3. Steve Austin (3 pts.)
4. Shawn Michaels (2 pts.)
5. Hulk Hogan (1 pt.)

Best In-Ring Performer (from a Technical Stand Point)
1. Kurt Angle (5)
2. Bret Hart (4)
3. Shawn Michaels (3)
4. Ric Flair (2)
5. Ricky Steamboat (1)

Best In-Ring Performer (from a Story Telling Stand Point)
1. Steve Austin (5)
2. Ric Flair (4)
3. Jake Roberts (3)
4. Mick Foley (2)
5. Triple H (1)

Best Mic Worker
1. Mick Foley (5)
2. Roddy Piper (4)
3. Ric Flair (3)
4. The Rock (2)
5. Chris Jericho (1)

Biggest Draw
1. Hulk Hogan (5)
2. Steve Austin (4)
3. Bruno Sammartino (3)
4. The Rock (2)
5. Andre the Giant (1)

Willingness/Capacity to Play Heel or Face
1. Ric Flair (5)
2. Triple H (4)
3. Kurt Angle (3)
4. Chris Jericho (2)
5. The Rock (1)

Overall (with points)
1. Ric Flair (18 points)
2. Steve Austin (12 points)
3. The Rock (10 points)
4. Kurt Angle (8 points)
5. Mick Foley (7 points)

6. Hulk Hogan (6 points)
7t. Shawn Michaels (5 points)
7t. Triple H (5 points)
9t. Bret Hart (4 points)
9t. Roddy Piper (4 points)
11t. Bruno Sammartino (3 points)
11t. Chris Jericho (3 points)
11t. Jake Roberts (3 points)
14t. Andre the Giant (1 point)
14t. Ricky Steamboat (1 point)

So to answer your question... Ric Flair.

The Undertaker has been in a lot of crappy matches with a lot of crappy people. A lot of crappy high profile matches, at that. His mic skills are seriously lacking, and his work rate is pretty awful these days at least. I can understand enjoying the Undertaker, but metioning him as the greatest of all time is certainly laughable.

Show Off, I feel your lists are flawed. Mick Foley shouldn't be on any in-ring list of any kind (besides most willing to do ridiculous bumps)...Hulk Hogan is more charismatic than Shawn Michaels, and probably the rest of that list too...Ric Flair should not be toping the heel/face list, he's a heel at heart....I DUNNO BRO.

Well.....I think we all have our own opinions about who is the best, but if we are talking about whom you think people in general would say is the best, they would probably stick within Hogan, Austin, or The Rock. These three guys were staples in the wrestling industry and you can't just say 'well they didn't do so good in this category or that'. They were the three most successful in the business without question.

If I had to choose, I would be forced to choose Hogan, simply because he was it in the 80's, and then once again in the 90's, and is still hanging around trying to do it again. Both Austin and Rock bailed on the business, so that leaves them in second place to me.

Question for Stevevicious89...if a song on the radio sells more than another song, does that automatically make the radio song the better song?

Obviously these are just opinions, so you are entitled to your own...

However, I think the 4 above Hogan are more charismatic then him, Hogan was charismatic as hell but not more than any of the men above him...

Foley was great at telling a story in the ring. He wasn't good technically, hence why I didn't put him on the technical list. The reason foley seperated himself from The Sandman or Sabu (also guys willing to do bumps) was his ability to tell a story. Look at his matches with The Rock and all of them have clearly defined storys going on. Nuanced stories that very few people could pull off...

Flair has switched from heel to face and was willing to swich from heel to face more than any other wrestler in the history of wrestling. From 1983 to 1991 Flair was the #1 heel or #1 face in the NWA for his entire run. His ability to swich roles was better than anyone in history.

Look at that match with The Rock where Foley was handcuffed and took 22 unprotected head shots. Great story from Foley there. :y:

Even when Ric Flair was a face, he was still "The Dirtiest Player in the Game". Not a "proper" face, if you ask me.

Also, I probably would have put Hogan at number 2 on your charisma list.

This may be true, but could Foley pull of the great matches with Rock or Triple H without the chairs? the thumtacks? or barbed wire baseball bats? and just based solely on in-ring ability? I don't think he can.....well.... at least not as well as HBK, Flair, Austin, hell even Hogan

Foley's promos told great stories. I'll give him that.

You mean at Royal Rumble 1999 where he pulled off a story where he and The Rock had an I Quit match which Foley was telling the story that he wanted the fans to get so upset with him getting hurt that they would beg for Foley to quit despite the title being on the line?

That was a well told story. A very well told story.

Foley's "hardcore" wrestling was just his way of telling stories.

Foley was the face in that match. Why would he want to upset the fans on purpose?

vs. Shawn Micheals at Mind Games

Foley carried the weight of the story of that match...

To get a visceral reaction out of them to put The Rock over HUGE as a heel...

If you've read Foley's book or watched the DVD he explains it...

But my defending Foley is silly, he's only #5 on my overall list...

Mind Games was probably Foley's best match. You still have to give some of that credit to Shawn Michaels, though.

Because he's on an in-ring list of any kind and Kurt Angle isn't.

Even if that Rumble performance was a great story told, it was still due to the ridiculous bumps. And if you REALLY wanna be technical, most of those chair shots happened outside of the ring. :cool:

:shifty:

SIDENOTE: I like this kind of discussion. Nobody's being a dickhead and everybody's bringing up decent points. :y:

Speaking of Kurt Angle, I watched him beating Austin for the WWF Title at Unforgiven 2001 last night. What a moment. :cool: One of my all-time favorite title wins

Kurt was a BEAST in 2001/02. Goofy Olympic Hero Kurt was one of the best gimmicks ever.