[Rock Bottom]

Originally Posted by some idiot 6. As far as credit goes, most of the ideas that made him money were not his. There are other promoter's who had to work their way up. He was born into money. He gets credit for pushing obvious choices a blind man could see(Austin, Hogan, The Rock, etc.). Many with potential (Raven, Jericho, Ultimo Dragon, Mike Awesome, etc.) have been held back after he stole them from competition and did really nothing with them. At the same time, I do realize what he's done and respect it, but as far as the creative part, and certain other aspects, I don't believe for a second that someone else couldn't have done better in certain ways.

That's really a pretty dumb point to try and make, considering the WCW was practically created based on drawing from former WWE superstars.

Also, are you forgetting, that both WWE champions right now are former WCW, one of them was never even a main-eventer?

Vince is kind of the overseer. He doesn't really think of everything. Austin's big breakthrough came rather unexpectledly. But as did The Rock. You can't, however, fault McMahon for that. I've never heard of McMahon saying he took any credit for those two. And yeah, Vince worked closely with Austin from what I understand... But other than that. The guy won. What the hell do you want.

There were once the big three. WWE won. Why the hell can't the chairman be like, "That's right, bitches, I won."

About the Bret Hart screwjob:

That really kind of made Vince a mega-heel. And don't think for a second that I enjoy the idea of my childhood hero getting screwed out of the title. But if you think about it, it was business. Vince did something because he felt that it was dumb, as anyone should, or wrong rather... To have a WWE superstar, especially as huge as Hart, not job cleanly to their next in line at a PPV, before going to WCW. Michaels was to take over as the top babyface.

Okay, whatever, that can all break down into opinion. But here are some facts:

Vince McMahon is not the devil incarnate for it. It may have been low in the eyes of many, but it doesn't make him the scum of the Earth. He is a business man. He did what he thought was right for his company.

I'm sure in your perfect scope of things, you'd want Bret Hart to go over Michaels clean, and then the title be forfeited before he went to WCW. Vince was in the wrong due to Bret's contract, but, he is by far, not the scum of the Earth.

Wow I am just tacking shit on as I go. About the InVasion angle:

What the hell did you want him to do, bury his own boys? That was like, if anything, not just Vince's ego, but congratulations guys, you worked hard for your company in low times, now enjoy the fruits. The WWE is not going to be able to push every bit of talent they have. I feel strongly, as do others, about the way certain talent is held back. But again, I fail to see how Vince is the scum of the Earth. Let's take a good look.

Chris Benoit: World Heavyweight Champion. You can't complain about that.
Eddie Guerrero: WWE Champion. And guess who helped him win the title? Goldberg, a WCW talent.
Goldberg: I dare you to even say anything about him. He is one of the most terrible workers, and he was from WCW, and he didn't lose a single step from the type of status he recieved in the WCW. His first fucking match, he went over The Rock. A home-grown WWE main-eventer, former champion, and a guy who has broken a nice number of records.
Perry Saturn: MOPPY! That was just ridiculous. But I really doubt McMahon was the brains behind that operation.
Dean Malenko: Malenko was not exactly the youngest, and he is retired now from what I understand. He was awesome in the ring. And the WWE gave him a good run with the Cruiserweight title. Malenko would NOT have made it main event in the WWE.
Rey Mysterio: Rey is currently one of the most over guys on SmackDown! He is not even a main-eventer, but he is as over as one, and the WWE knows that. He's been injured lately I believe. Other than that, they aren't using him too badly. Sure, he is toned down... But everyone is. That's another business decision.
Chavo Guerrero: Current cruiserweight champion who makes pretty quick work out of all his opponents, and he gets good mic time. He has his father as his manager, and he had a big feud with his uncle that helped Eddie develop his newer aspects of his character. Chavo, believe it or not, had a nice role to play in helping get Eddie so over.
Chris Jericho: Currently, he is not being very well used at all, or is he? He deserves the main event. But he's working excellent matches with Christian right now, and helping to elevate Christian. I'm not complaining at all, these two are fantastic together. And let's also not forget who beat both The Rock and Steve Austin is one night to become the first ever, WWE Undisputed Champion. I'm sure Jericho is bitching about that one himself.
Rob Van Dam: He had a pretty solid push when he first came in. He is still way over. They haven't been booking him the best, but he rarely loses a clean match. Rob Van Dam is a household name, and he is in the middle of a decent push on SmackDown! They have him up there with Guerrero as a peer/guy with a common enemy. Keep watching SmackDown, RVD is getting somewhat of a push.
The Dudleyz: The Dudleyz are kind of stale at the moment. But they are feuding with the WWE champion and Rob Van Dam right now. Not too shabby really. WWE gave them a fresh heel turn, and they have carried the tag gold on numerous occasions. WWE's tag division is a little shotty right now, but they are still using them. That tell you anything?
Rhyno: He is a jobber, what can I tell you. But the guy is not that great at all. He fit in MUCH better in ECW, but the WWE fans are never going to care about him. End of story. Rhyno is a decent worker, but he is best for that hardcore type scene, which WWE doesn't have too much of.
Ric Flair: Hi, Ric Flair is a legend, was in quite a few promotions, and never have they buried Flair like the WCW has. They treat him with respect. Why don't you take a look at how Bischoff treated this guy when he was working for WCW.
Hulk Hogan: I'd mention him, but he is home-grown to WWE, really. He is old and past his prime. And he was showcased in Wrestlemania. What else do you want. Former 5-time champ.

If you think of anyone else, by all means. But I still fail to see where Vince is scum, and how he has horribly mismanaged talent. If you wanna bitch about talent talk about Jim Ross (whom I have a great deal of respect for personally, despite his silly commentary) or Johnny Ace. Vince does not oversee every operation. I don't see how you are going to blame him for everything you listed.