[CSL]

(cont.)

AC: Let’s do it.

CJ: I was one of the few guys that could do that make that work. Once again, that was a challenge. Wins and losses mean nothing if you know how to do them properly. So like I said, there was nothing to be bitter about. If anybody is bitter about being world champion at WrestleMania, you should maybe look for another line of work or try to find a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow that doesn’t exist. And the whole thing with Nexus. I thought the whole last month building up to SummerSlam was genius, with me and Edge being the ----stirrers involved. I loved that angle. I thought it was amazing. So I disagree with that.

AC: You’ve had two world title matches at WrestleMania—back in 2002 with Triple-H and again last year. I think it’s fair to say that neither of those are going to be thought of among the most iconic, memorable WrestleMania main events. Any thoughts on that? Disappointments? Was there anything different you wish you had done in those matches?

CJ: I don’t know, man. Once again, just because you have a world title match at WrestleMania doesn’t mean necessarily that it’s a classic. You do the best you can do. Some main events are better than others. My WrestleMania calling card was at XIX with Shawn Michaels, and there was no title involved in that at all. It was the fifth match on the show out of 10 matches. To steal the show in that position, that’s what it was. All the cards aligned and all the fruit lined up on the slot machine. It was the iconic match for that WrestleMania. Last year I was going up against 'Taker and Shawn and pretty much accepting second place at best. But, like I said, you do the best with what you have at any WrestleMania, at any situation. I was fortunate enough that at WrestleMania XIX, mine was the match that people remembered, and there was no title involved in that at all. Just because you have a title at WrestleMania or you go on last at WrestleMania doesn’t mean that you’re going to have this classic match. Even at WrestleMania X8 when we went on last, Hogan and Rock were the true main event. They were just protecting the title by putting it on last, but Rock and Hogan was the match that everyone paid to see. So anybody after that was at a disadvantage. But I don’t regret anything I’ve done in any of those matches because it was the best I could do on that given day. Some of them are more memorable than others, but all of them were Chris Jericho given 1000 percent.

AC: You know one that I neglected to mention because it slipped my mind, but definitely deserves mention with some of the best work you’ve done in the last couple years was the angle you did with the Legends leading up to WrestleMania 25, and especially the work you did with Rick Steamboat.

CJ: Yeah.

AC: That photo of you getting the autograph from Steamboat when you were a kid has become this iconic image of that whole thing. How surreal was that for you—not only to work with Rick Steamboat at that point, but to have some really good matches with him?

CJ: Yeah, that’s kind of a forgotten angle that I did. It was all those promos. Everybody’s talking about that promo that (Roddy) Piper did before Survivor Series this year. People forgot the promo that he did before WrestleMania that year in Tacoma, Washington. I went up to him beforehand and we were talking and I said, “Listen, dude, I don’t want Roddy Piper, the funny, happy guy. I want the Roddy Piper who was the biggest heel in the world WrestleMania I. The guy is forgotten man in the reason why that company was built.” That show was a success because of Hogan and Cyndi Lauper. But if it wasn’t for Piper being the quintessential, jackass heel, that show never would have worked. And I said that’s the guy I want to talk to tonight. And he responded in spades. He was great. So, yeah, that’s one of those angles that I did that people forgot, but at the time was very, very good. And that’s all because Mickey Rourke was going to do a match and then pulled out of it, so we were kind of left holding the bag. Vince had this idea to do something with the legends. The criteria was that they had to be in the Hall of Fame and they had to be in the first WrestleMania. That’s why we teased (Jerry) Lawler for a while, but Lawler didn’t meet Vince’s criteria, because he wasn’t in the first WrestleMania. So Vince wanted (Greg) Valentine. And I said, “Listen, man, if that is going to have any chance of being a good match, they’ve got to get somebody else in there.” So I asked if we could have Steamboat. And at the time there were some problems with Steamboat’s name. I don’t know if his ex-wife owned it, or whatever it was. And I think Vince was a little reluctant at first. But after a while, we went with Steamboat, and that’s when I said, “Okay, this is going to be great. Finally I’ve got somebody I can work with.” I wasn’t in awe. It wasn’t surreal. By the time you get to that point in your career—It’s like when I worked with Hogan in 2002. Hogan was my all-time favorite, but I didn’t go into the ring with stars in my eyes and mark out for him. At that point, I’m one of his peers. So it’s time to get the job done, make the donuts, and make some magic here. That was the same with Steamboat. I mean it was cool for about three seconds, and then after that it was like, “We’ve got to make this work and get things going.” I knew Ricky would respond that way. It would be like Wayne Gretsky coming back to play hockey now. He’d still be better than 80 percent of the roster, because he’s that good. And Ricky was. We worked for a couple months. We worked five or six times. And I think the best match we had was at a house show that we worked in Greenville, South Carolina that nobody saw except the people that were there. He continued to get better and better. And that’s just because he’s one of those guys. We talked about guys who have shelf life. His shelf life was definitely a lot longer than he lasted. I think he retired when he was like 45. He probably could have gone until he was 55.

AC: In that way, you kind of did something special for Rick Steamboat, I imagine in letting him have that closure on his career and a last great, memorable match. After this great career he had, it just sort of stopped. I think it was 1994 he had to retire and never got that sendoff he deserved. And now, at whatever age he is, he got that. Was he grateful to you for being able to do that?

CJ: He never came up and said that, but you can tell. Ricky’s a great guy. He’s a very respectful guy and he’s very direct and he’s very thoughtful. Not to get too deep into it, but yeah, I think he definitely respected it. But I respected him, and so did everybody else in the roster. This was no charity case of bringing a guy back for one last run. He’s Ricky Steamboat, man. Any bit of a chance he got from anything I did, he responded to in spades and ran with it. That’s what true pros do. That’s what the greats do.

AC: Let me ask you a little bit about your new book, Undisputed. Your first book was just tremendous. For my money, it’s one of—if not the—best wrestling autobiography I’ve read. Just compelling, really funny. I just loved jumping from country to country and getting a peak at the wrestling scene there at that particular time, especially places like Europe, which you just don’t hear that much about. Just a tremendous book. Did that give you any added pressure in writing this followup?

CJ: Yeah, there was a lot of pressure. I wanted to get a Godfather II with this one—a sequel that’s better than the original. And that’s why I wrote the book the way I did the first time. To include everything up until that point in 2007, I would have had to compromise some of the earlier stories. And I knew I had so much stuff, that I didn’t want to do that. And when it came time to write the second book, it took a long time to get my butt in gear and to do it, because it’s a big commitment. It takes a lot of time. And that’s why it took me about a year and a half to do it properly. And I didn’t even start working on it until January of this year. I had the deal two years before that, but you can’t just jump into something like that half-assed. You have to give it your all, 100 percent. And that’s something I do for everything I’ve done as Chris Jericho. If you see my name on it, you know it’s 100 percent. That’s why it took a while to get this book out. I wanted to make it as just good if not better than the first one. And I think I’ve done that. I think this book is in a lot of ways better than the original, because the first book was dealing with a lot of stories that nobody ever knew. This one deals with a lot of stories that people do know, or think they know. So you have to deal with that and make it better. It also deals a lot with my experiences with Fozzy and stuff I did in Hollywood. So it’s also a little more diverse than the first book is. And I think it’s better. I’m really excited for it to come out. It comes out in February. If you thought the first book was the best wrestling book ever, then this is definitely the best wrestling sequel ever. The fact that I’ve had two autobiographies published by the time I was 40 years old, I’m pretty fortunate for that and very cognizant that both those books are considered classics in their field—or at least I hope the second will be. I’m very cognizant that the first one is a classic in its field. And that’s really rewarding for me, because I wrote every word. And I think that’s the reason it does resonate so well. I’ve always been a writer. And I’ve always wanted to write a book, but I had to wait until I left WWE to do that. I’m glad I did.

AC: How different was the experience writing it under the WWE banner. Inevitably, there are going to be people looking for, you know, “Is he holding back a little bit here? Censoring himself” or “Is WWE censoring him?” Was there any of that?

CJ: Well, WWE can’t censor me, because it’s not their book. It’d impossible. They don’t read a draft of it until you do the final draft. As far as holding back, if you think I held back in the first one, then this one will be about the same. I really don’t hold back, but I don’t go out of my way to bury anybody or to be bitter or angry, because why would I? I mean the book is a story, and I win at the end of both books. I became one of the best wrestlers of all-time, one of the biggest stars in wrestling history. What do I have to complain about? If I’ve had some issues with some people over the years, that’s fine. I think everybody does. But I’m not going to go out of my way to verbally bash them. A book is not a place to settle a vendetta. That’s for sure. I tell the stories as I see fit. And when I was editing it, I did dial back some things, because you don’t want to be mean. Mean is mean. But I’m very honest about the things I went through. And in this book there’s a lot of that stuff. When I first got to WWE, it was a political quagmire. There was so much stuff that I faced that I never expect to face. Look back on my career. The first six months that I was there they basically didn’t do anything. I was just a guy. So I talk about all that stuff in the book, as I should. And I don’t pull any punches. But I don’t go out of my way to be mean or bitter or anything. I just tell the story as it is.

AC: Mick Foley has now written four books dealing with his wrestling career—kind of autobiographies. And I think there’s a popular opinion that they were kind of progressively less interesting. The first one was this incredible, landmark book. The next one was very good. The next one was just okay. And there have been mixed reviews for this most recent one. Do you worry about that same thing happening with you? I guess the one big difference is that the real bulk of your career and what people most know you from—your time in WWE—you didn’t even deal with in the first book.

CJ: Yeah, exactly. So that’s one kind of ace in the hole that I had. I always planned on having a sequel. That’s why it ended the way that it did. I mean, I’m not stupid. And this book also ends in a cliffhanger because it ends right when I come back in 2007. So there’s still this whole other three-year period that some people, including myself, considered the best of my career. But obviously those (Foley’s) books, if you think they’re less interesting, is because there are less experiences to draw on. The first book, for me, was 30 years. The second was seven years. If I started writing another book tomorrow, it would be three years. But it’s three years of pretty good stuff. So I’d like to do a third book, but there’s no rush to do it. I already have more than enough material to fill a third book, and it’s all interesting stuff. At least I think it is. More importantly to the fans, there’s still that whole three-year period of my whole rebirth that hasn’t been dealt with. So that’s a book right there. So I’m not worried about it in the least.

AC: Kind of looking back in a different way now that it may be over, do you start to think about things like the WWE Hall of Fame? I know different guys have different takes on what that means to them. I’ve heard wrestlers pretty cynically say, “It’s all a work. Who cares?” And then other people talk about it being pretty valuable to be recognized by your peers. Is it something that peaks your interest?

CJ: Well, anybody who says, “It’s all a work,” is probably somebody who’s not in there, you know what I mean? To not be in the Hall of Fame, you think, Oh, who cares. But I think anybody who is in the Hall of Fame probably thinks it’s pretty cool. For me, I think I’d be a little bit embarrassed that all of these people were there cheering for me for the work I did in the past. Like I said, I’ve never really thought of the past. I always think of the future. I think it would be an honor to be in the Hall of Fame, but I think I’d be very, very embarrassed to be up there talking about how great I am, or how great I’m perceived as being, or how great I am on that night. I think that’s one of the reasons I like writing books. I can tell the good things that I’ve done, and also really focus and call myself on the carpet for all the bad things I’ve done as well. So yeah, the Hall of Fame is a huge honor. I hope I’m in it someday. But I’d almost be scared to show up. I might not even go. (laughs)

AC: I just pulled up this list. WWE put out this “50 Greatest Superstars” DVD, and you’re exactly at the halfway point. You are the 25th greatest superstar of all time, in between Bruno Sammartino and Ted DiBiase. Any thoughts?

CJ: Well, I don’t think there’s really any thoughts you can give on that. I think it’s just a gimmick, promotional thing to sell DVDs. I think when you look at that list, it’s pretty crazy all the way through and there’s really no rhyme or reason to the way they’re ranked, with the exception of the first one (Shawn Michaels). Any list where Hogan is at number 20 or something like that, it’s making more of a political statement than anything. But I think if you take the top 25 guys of all-time, maybe I could have done a little bit better. Top 20 maybe. But I definitely don’t see myself in the top 10 of all-time. But any time you can be included in something like that—I’d rather be at number 25 than at number 51 and not make the cut.

AC: What do you see as your legacy? Not a ranking or anything like that, but when you’re dead and gone, how do you want to be remembered in the wrestling business?

CJ: Just as a guy who entertained, who gave his best every single night and found different ways to do that. I think I’ll probably be remembered in a lot of people’s eyes as an over achiever, but in my eyes, I achieved exactly what I always knew I would do. When I started in 1990, there was a real prejudice against me because I was small. I was a small guy. In the '90s it was all about how big guys were. I just never accepted it. I don’t think I’m small. I mean, I know I’m small but I was never going to let it hinder me. So I found other ways to do it. So I went to other countries and I worked on my character and I worked on my presentation and I worked on my showmanship. So I was lucky that I was doing all of that for ten years. And by the time I came into WWE in 1999, it was almost like the perfect storm. It was the right time to be a guy my size to really make your mark. Because in the 1990s, look at all the guys who were on top. It definitely wasn’t anybody like me. But by the time 2000 rolled around, almost all the guys were my size, because the giants were all proven to be, you know, ----. They just weren’t good. So, had I started in 1980, I never would have made it to the heights that I did. So 1990 was the perfect time for a guy like me to start. So I always did my best to entertain every night. And I was always good about adapting to the crowd and adapting to what was going on. I had a great experience in WCW. A lot of people cut on it, talk bad about WCW. But I really learned how to make the most out of the time I ‘m given. If you’re given one minute of TV time, you’ve got to find a way to make that a minute that everybody’s going to remember. How can I make that mark in one minute? So by the time I got to WWE, if I had 10 minutes, I knew what to do. If I had 30 seconds, I knew what to do. I was able to do that on a consistent basis. And that’s why people got into what I was doing. Whatever I was doing, whether people loved it or they hated it—and most of the time they hated it—they always looked forward to see what exactly I was going to do next and who was going to be there to shut me up.

AC: I’d be remiss if I didn’t give you an opportunity to talk about some of your other projects. I know that’s what’s going on in your life right now. How is the Fozzy tour going? You just got back form Australia. Are we going to get a tour here in the U.S.?

CJ: For whatever reason we have a great international fan base for Fozzy, and we always have. And that’s what I like to focus on. Over the last three or four months—as a matter of fact since I left WWE—we’ve been to seven countries. We toured England, Ireland, Scotland, Whales, France, Australia and Canada. That’s seven countries since I left in September. And Fozzy’s not a project. Fozzy’s who I am. We’ve been doing this for 11 years now. I know a lot of people think, “Eleven years, really?” We’ve really made a lot of progress and in roads. And most importantly people don’t see it as the wrestling band anymore, not that we ever portrayed it as that. But people always had it in mind that because I’m a wrestler I couldn’t possible be good at anything else. And that’s something I’ve always proven wrong. And it makes people angry. But we do great business overseas, and even the shows we’ve played in the States have done great. We had a show at the Whisky A Go Go in Los Angeles. It’s probably the biggest club in the world. Everyone knows the Whisky. We’re headed to Canada in January. And then we’re going to do all the festivals this summer—all the big 50,60,70,000 people festivals with Metallica, Megadeth, Avenged Sevenfold, Linkin Park, all the biggest bands in the world. Like I said, I’ve been a musician a lot longer than I’ve been a wrestler. I’ve been playing in bands since I was 14 years old. So I didn’t just wake up one day and say, “Hey, I want to be in a band.” It’s something I’ve always done and something that I’ll always do. I’ll be 65 years old and playing with a band somewhere. I’m just glad that I’ve had the chance to pounce on that and really take advantage of that and really build a band. I think we’re very fortunate that after 11 years we’re a band that’s still growing. The only people who don’t like our band are the people who haven’t heard it. Everybody that’s heard the band loves the band and that includes my peers in music. I just got a call from Slash the other day. He was listening to the record and he loved it. He’s another guy in a long line of guys who are into the band. That’s very cool for me—that I was able to focus and achieve both of my dreams.

AC: It’s kind of a shame that it’s a brand of music that, at least in the United States, has kind of come and gone. Obviously, metal was huge in the mid- and late-'80s, That’s when I was really into it. I went to a Megadeth, Anthrax, and Slayer show out here on Long Island about a month ago in the Nassau Coliseum. And it was like a few cars in the parking lot. I mean, it was a pretty good crowd. It might have been eight-or-nine thousand. But I certainly see more people at the Coliseum for almost any other show going on. And then I saw the movie “The Big 4” with Metallica and those same bands in Bulgaria. And they had like 100,000 people. So it’s like a whole different seen. It definitely has its following here in the United States but nothing like in Europe and other parts of the world.

CJ: Well, it all depends on who you’re talking about. People love metal all around the world. And there are all these bands that are coming up playing it. We don’t play like '80s metal. We play hard rock music. Our songs would fit with something you would hear by Stone Sour or Avenged Sevenfold today. There’s definitely influences from those past bands, but we’re not that type of band completely. And anybody who listens to our records would know that there’s always diversity on it—a lot of different stuff. I think we’ve carved out a little niche for ourselves. I think we just don’t spend a lot of time in the States because we really haven’t had a chance to. We’re spending so much time in these other countries. The shows that we’re doing here are getting bigger and the records that we’re selling are more and more. It’s all I could ever ask for.

AC: I would think that, particularly in the States, you would get people at shows that are fans of Chris Jericho, the wrestler, and like the novelty of seeing their favorite wrestler singing. Do you welcome that? Is it a little but annoying in that these are two different sides of you?

CJ: Whatever it takes to get people there. Most of the time, our fan base is probably 60 percent true blue Fozzy fans, at this point and 40 percent people who want to see Chris Jericho do a dropkick on stage, which is fine. That’s cool. Whatever it takes to get people in there. But everybody who leaves are shows are converted Fozzy fans. Every band has a gimmick. Kiss wore make up. And I’m sure there were a lot of people who went to see Kiss because the guys are wearing make up or they kill cows on stage or whatever the rumors were that they did. But when you caught them, you’d say, “Man these guys are actually, really kick ass.” I love challenges. I love people coming and getting into the band. And I also love playing songs where the whole crowd is singing every word of our songs, where they actually know what we’re doing and they obviously came prepared. So it’s all good to me, man. It’s all making people happy and entertaining. That’s what I like to do.

AC: How about the acting side of things and other TV work? Are you doing another season of Downfall?

CJ: I don’t think we’re doing another season of Downfall but there are other projects that have been extended because of that. So that was a huge deal for me in being perceived outside the box in the Hollywood environment because for whatever reason there’s a prejudice against wrestlers in Hollywood. They think, Well we’ve got our wrestler. We’ve got The Rock, and that’s all we need. But I mean there are guys who can do anything. Wrestling is show business boot camp. You learn a little bit about everything when you work in WWE. So Downfall was a huge step forward for me because now people know me in that world, as the host of a network game show and not just the wrestling guy. So there are other projects that have come up that have stemmed from that. I’d love to do more acting because I love playing characters, as you can tell. The hosting gig was fun, too. So I see myself doing a lot more of that in the future as well. I think at this stage in my career, it’s going to transition more to just being Fozzy and doing more of the hosting and acting thing. I think that’s another reason why the wrestling fans are mad at me, because they’re starting to realize that when I say I might not come back, they’re starting to see the result of that, and saying, “Well, jeez. He might actually be serious and not be pulling a typical wrestling thing where they keep coming back.” And I’m not saying that’s not going to happen. But the way things are going right now, the road isn’t taking me down that path right now.

AC: As you talked about in this interview, when you were Chris Jericho, the character, you took it so seriously that you didn’t want people wearing your T-shirts, because you wanted to be hated. And yet, at the same time, you’re doing this show on the other channel, Downfall, where you’re this likeable, nice, jovial game show host. Did you have any personal problems in presenting yourself in different ways?

CJ: Absolutely not. I’m an actor, and I have to play the part of Chris Jericho in WWE. It’s like Anthony Hopkins doesn’t walk down the street eating people’s livers with a fine Chianti and a straightjacket. It’s a character he played in a movie and he’s more than capable of playing two or three different characters at the same time as they shoot two or three different movies. And I played the character of Chris Jericho in WWE and outside of WWE there is no character, unless I’m doing another movie. But, Downfall, that was myself. I was playing myself. I never ever, ever once went into the ring as they guy that’s talking to you right now. I became somebody else, because that’s what wrestling is—from day one for me. It’s not athletic. It’s not a sport. Not even close. You have to be an athlete, but there’s no scoring goals and all that sort of thing. It’s show business, man. One hundred percent. And that’s how I’ve always treated it and that’s why I did as good as I did. That’s why I’ll always do good in anything like that, because I play a character. I understand that. And the best guys in the business do that, and understand that and can be that. And the guys that aren’t are the guys that come and go.

AC: One last thing. I went to a house show in Newark earlier this year where Y2J returned. You announced before the match that Y2J was back, and you worked the match as a babyface and you were slapping hands at ringside with fans. I wondered if that was kind of your way of saying goodbye. Can you give me insight into what was that about?

CJ: You’re reading to much into this, man. This isn’t the DaVinci Code where there’s all these secret messages … I started as a heel, and then turned into a babyface. That’s the one where I challenged Cena to a match, and then Sheamus beat him up. And then Nexus came down and beat me up. And then Orton came down. And I said, “You’re going to see the one night only return of Y2J!” or whatever it was. The thing is, at the end of that match if I wanted to turn back into a bad guy, all it would have taken was two seconds to do it … There was definitely no goodbyes. “(Pretending to sob) This is my last show in Newark.” I don’t want that. I don’t ever want that big, overblown, Shawn Michaels, Ric Flair goodbye. I don’t want it. Good for those guys that got it. I don’t want it. If I never wrestle another day, I wouldn’t feel bad about the fact that I never got my last applause and got to ride off into the sunset. I’m a bad guy. Bad guys are cowards. Bad guys die at the end of movies. And that’s it. You never see them again. That’s what I want to happen to me. I want to fall off the building like the dude in Die Hard and scream “Aaaah!” all the way down. And it’s like, “That guy was a loser. I’m glad he’s dead.” That’s what my mindset is. Although, I don’t want the “dead” part to happen.