TPWW Forums - View Single Post - QUESTION - Is there a danger in pushing guys like Orton, Cena, and Mordecai too soon?

**Nowhere Man** · 06-04-2004, 11:53 AM

Wow. Heyman made a point that I completely and totally agree on!

Guys like Orton, Cena, Lesnar, Warrior, etc., are what I like to call "Shake 'n' Bake" superstars. They're all made quickly and easily along the same basic formula, shoved down people's throats, and then forgotten just as quickly as they were made up. They can be pretty good, but in the long run, going the quick-and-easy route makes them absolutely nothing memorable. Just like Shake 'n' Bake.

.....dammit, now I'm all hungry. And KFC's not open yet.

Since he's my favorite example, let's take a look at Randy Orton, and why they're going to end up wasting a potential superstar:

1) Too Green: and that has nothing to do with all that "paying your dues" stuff. For someone who looks to be on the verge of a main-event push, he leaves a lot to be desired. His promos, which are cornerstones for a good heel, are unbelievably bland and ho-hum. His ring work is good when he's working against a solid leader, but when he's the one carrying the momentum of the match, he seems lost.

That's nothing a little experience can't cure. Problem is, no one knows how long people need. Some guys make leaps and bounds over the span of a few short months. Other guys need years to perfect their art. Some guys never get the hang of it. Pushing a guy before he's ready for it is taking a pretty huge gamble, and it very rarely ever pays off.

2) Crowd Unfamiliarity and Rejection: After the first few months of super-pushing, the crowd usually wears off and, unless you're the Rock, loses interest. Most of the main event players who succeed have been around for a long time and have made names for themselves with the crowd (except Undertaker and Austin, but they were hardly 'rookies' when they came to WWE) Sure, Orton's a good worker, tries hard, and can eventually get extremely over with the fans, but there are workers on Orton's level who have tried harder, are already more over with the crowd, and much readier for a big push. Instead of giving the crowd what they want and expect to see, which is for those guys to step up, they instead have a new guy who they don't know get forced on them while the other guys are held back, and the crowd will almost always reject them.

Also, most of the really successful gimmicks are from things we haven't seen before. No one had been as foul-mouthed and hostile as Austin when he hit the scene. No one had been that good at pulling off the "super-arrogant jerk" routine as The Rock. What's Orton got? A bad guy who's full of himself? Yawn.

3) No Future: Nearly all of the wrestlers who get quick-fast super pushes have practically no longevity whatsoever when it's over. Ultimate Warior bombed as Champion. Goldberg was nothing special after the Streak was over. Brock Lesnar is now a laughingstock in wrestling circles. Right now, Orton's really got nothing going for him that will stand the test of time. You can't build an entire career around being the guy who beat Mick Foley 4 years after he retired. The "Legend Killer" gimmick is going to get very old, very fast, and unless he can do something unforgettable within the next year or so, he'll be washed up before he even reaches his prime, and by the time he's developed the skills necessary to carry main-event level matches, no one will care.

My point is, if they really want to make guys like Randy Orton or John Cena successful, they should make long-term investments in them and push the talent already on hand while they work their way up, instead of relying on quick solutions and flash-in-the-pan success.

06-04-2004, 11:53 AM	#9
Nowhere Man Now. Here. Man. Posts: 8,370	Wow. Heyman made a point that I completely and totally agree on! Guys like Orton, Cena, Lesnar, Warrior, etc., are what I like to call "Shake 'n' Bake" superstars. They're all made quickly and easily along the same basic formula, shoved down people's throats, and then forgotten just as quickly as they were made up. They can be pretty good, but in the long run, going the quick-and-easy route makes them absolutely nothing memorable. Just like Shake 'n' Bake. .....dammit, now I'm all hungry. And KFC's not open yet. Since he's my favorite example, let's take a look at Randy Orton, and why they're going to end up wasting a potential superstar: 1) Too Green: and that has nothing to do with all that "paying your dues" stuff. For someone who looks to be on the verge of a main-event push, he leaves a lot to be desired. His promos, which are cornerstones for a good heel, are unbelievably bland and ho-hum. His ring work is good when he's working against a solid leader, but when he's the one carrying the momentum of the match, he seems lost. That's nothing a little experience can't cure. Problem is, no one knows how long people need. Some guys make leaps and bounds over the span of a few short months. Other guys need years to perfect their art. Some guys never get the hang of it. Pushing a guy before he's ready for it is taking a pretty huge gamble, and it very rarely ever pays off. 2) Crowd Unfamiliarity and Rejection: After the first few months of super-pushing, the crowd usually wears off and, unless you're the Rock, loses interest. Most of the main event players who succeed have been around for a long time and have made names for themselves with the crowd (except Undertaker and Austin, but they were hardly 'rookies' when they came to WWE) Sure, Orton's a good worker, tries hard, and can eventually get extremely over with the fans, but there are workers on Orton's level who have tried harder, are already more over with the crowd, and much readier for a big push. Instead of giving the crowd what they want and expect to see, which is for those guys to step up, they instead have a new guy who they don't know get forced on them while the other guys are held back, and the crowd will almost always reject them. Also, most of the really successful gimmicks are from things we haven't seen before. No one had been as foul-mouthed and hostile as Austin when he hit the scene. No one had been that good at pulling off the "super-arrogant jerk" routine as The Rock. What's Orton got? A bad guy who's full of himself? Yawn. 3) No Future: Nearly all of the wrestlers who get quick-fast super pushes have practically no longevity whatsoever when it's over. Ultimate Warior bombed as Champion. Goldberg was nothing special after the Streak was over. Brock Lesnar is now a laughingstock in wrestling circles. Right now, Orton's really got nothing going for him that will stand the test of time. You can't build an entire career around being the guy who beat Mick Foley 4 years after he retired. The "Legend Killer" gimmick is going to get very old, very fast, and unless he can do something unforgettable within the next year or so, he'll be washed up before he even reaches his prime, and by the time he's developed the skills necessary to carry main-event level matches, no one will care. My point is, if they really want to make guys like Randy Orton or John Cena successful, they should make long-term investments in them and push the talent already on hand while they work their way up, instead of relying on quick solutions and flash-in-the-pan success.