TPWW Forums - View Single Post - DEBATE: Is it possible for guys like Jericho, RVD, Kane, etc. to still draw as ME's?

**Heyman** · 07-05-2004, 07:08 AM

DEBATE: Is it possible for guys like Jericho, RVD, Kane, etc. to still draw as Main-eventer's?

ARGUMENT #1: No - It's too late for guys like Jericho, RVD, Kane, (and others in the same boat as them) to be main-event draws:

The WWE blew their chance with all 3 of these men. All 3 men reached their peaks at one point but for whatever reason, were not pushed adequately. Too many times, each men were made to look inferior to Triple H. All 3 of these men have been mid-carders for far too long. Their 'aura' so to speak, is no longer present amongst the fans. Even if any one of these 3 men become World Champ one day, they will be seen as 'transitional' champs (or champs who are simply 'unworthy' of being in such a position). Take a look at Big Show for instance. Because he was made to look so AVERAGE for so long, no one really cared when he defeated Lesnar to become champ.

Most people view John Bradshaw Layfield's WWE title victory as a joke. Even a guy like Chris Benoit isn't exactly met with huge face pops at present day.

Basically - if you stay in the mid-cards for too long (and get buried for too long), you lose that 'aura' with the fans. When you lose that 'aura', you lose your ability to DRAW as champ.

Conclusion - The WWE blew their chances with certain superstars. Guys like RVD, Jericho, Kane, etc., will NEVER live up to the promise and potential that they once had as draws.

ARGUMENT#2: Guys like Jericho, RVD, and Kane can still potentially DRAW as champs.

It's absurd to believe that Triple H has successfully "buried" the careers of RVD, Jericho, Kane, Booker T, etc., etc., etc. The fans will ALWAYS get behind a good gimmick....a gimmick of which is getting a strong push. If Jericho were to win the World title from Triple H in a few months, the marks would go NUTS. Do you REALLY think they'd give a crap if he's been made to look 'average' for the past few years?

Stone Cold Steve Austin had been in the business for 8 fucking years before he won the title! Fans saw him as "The Ringmaster" and "Stunning" Steve Austin.

At Wrestlemania 14, The Rock got absolutely DEMOLISHED by Ken Shamrock. During this time, he was also made to look VERY weak by Stone Cold Steve Austin (Austin threw his IC title over the bridge, etc.). Did this wreck his career?

A few years back, Eddie Guerrero lost to friggin Chyna! Today? The guy is the WWE champ. Ditto for Jericho. He also jobbed to Chyna. A year or so later however (had he been pushed right), he could've easily been just a big a draw as The Rock (seriously). If Smackdown still had a healthy Angle, Big Show, Lesnar, and Chris Benoit, perhaps Guerrero would be drawing in numbers.

How long did it take before Mick Foley became champ? Shortly after Summerslam 98', the guy was becoming a joke (Foley even wrote about this in his original "Have A Nice Day" autobiography). A few months later? This guy was World Champ! And a popular one at that.

Right now - the US economy is still in it's 'down period'. As result, not as many people will be attending live events, etc.

Once the economy starts going back however (and people can afford to go to move live events, etc.), perhaps ratings/PPV buyrates will start going back up. Once this happens, THEN you can push the 'deserving' guys such as John Cena, RVD, Chris Jericho, Kane, etc.

Why push these guys right now during the WWE's DOWN PERIOD (a time when absolutely NO ONE will draw in significant ratings).

Conclusion - It's absurd to believe that none of these so-called 'held back' talent (i.e. Kane, Jericho, RVD, etc.) can never draw in the future. The fans will ALWAYS get behind a good gimmick......like they did with Austin and Mick Foley. Be patient. Triple H won't be around forever. Once him and Shawn Michaels leave (on Raw), the fans will REALLY get behind a guy like Jericho if he's made to be 'the man'. Ditto for RVD. A simple heel turn (followed by him winning matches via cheating...which eventually evolves into him winning matches more cleanly) got EASILY get RVD's career back on track.

Have faith.
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The "real" End to this Post:

So......which "Argument" or line of thought do you agree with more?

07-05-2004, 07:08 AM	#1
Heyman Father of Hinduship Posts: 21,083	DEBATE: Is it possible for guys like Jericho, RVD, Kane, etc. to still draw as ME's? DEBATE: Is it possible for guys like Jericho, RVD, Kane, etc. to still draw as Main-eventer's? ARGUMENT #1: No - It's too late for guys like Jericho, RVD, Kane, (and others in the same boat as them) to be main-event draws: The WWE blew their chance with all 3 of these men. All 3 men reached their peaks at one point but for whatever reason, were not pushed adequately. Too many times, each men were made to look inferior to Triple H. All 3 of these men have been mid-carders for far too long. Their 'aura' so to speak, is no longer present amongst the fans. Even if any one of these 3 men become World Champ one day, they will be seen as 'transitional' champs (or champs who are simply 'unworthy' of being in such a position). Take a look at Big Show for instance. Because he was made to look so AVERAGE for so long, no one really cared when he defeated Lesnar to become champ. Most people view John Bradshaw Layfield's WWE title victory as a joke. Even a guy like Chris Benoit isn't exactly met with huge face pops at present day. Basically - if you stay in the mid-cards for too long (and get buried for too long), you lose that 'aura' with the fans. When you lose that 'aura', you lose your ability to DRAW as champ. Conclusion - The WWE blew their chances with certain superstars. Guys like RVD, Jericho, Kane, etc., will NEVER live up to the promise and potential that they once had as draws. ARGUMENT#2: Guys like Jericho, RVD, and Kane can still potentially DRAW as champs. It's absurd to believe that Triple H has successfully "buried" the careers of RVD, Jericho, Kane, Booker T, etc., etc., etc. The fans will ALWAYS get behind a good gimmick....a gimmick of which is getting a strong push. If Jericho were to win the World title from Triple H in a few months, the marks would go NUTS. Do you REALLY think they'd give a crap if he's been made to look 'average' for the past few years? Stone Cold Steve Austin had been in the business for 8 fucking years before he won the title! Fans saw him as "The Ringmaster" and "Stunning" Steve Austin. At Wrestlemania 14, The Rock got absolutely DEMOLISHED by Ken Shamrock. During this time, he was also made to look VERY weak by Stone Cold Steve Austin (Austin threw his IC title over the bridge, etc.). Did this wreck his career? A few years back, Eddie Guerrero lost to friggin Chyna! Today? The guy is the WWE champ. Ditto for Jericho. He also jobbed to Chyna. A year or so later however (had he been pushed right), he could've easily been just a big a draw as The Rock (seriously). If Smackdown still had a healthy Angle, Big Show, Lesnar, and Chris Benoit, perhaps Guerrero would be drawing in numbers. How long did it take before Mick Foley became champ? Shortly after Summerslam 98', the guy was becoming a joke (Foley even wrote about this in his original "Have A Nice Day" autobiography). A few months later? This guy was World Champ! And a popular one at that. Right now - the US economy is still in it's 'down period'. As result, not as many people will be attending live events, etc. Once the economy starts going back however (and people can afford to go to move live events, etc.), perhaps ratings/PPV buyrates will start going back up. Once this happens, THEN you can push the 'deserving' guys such as John Cena, RVD, Chris Jericho, Kane, etc. Why push these guys right now during the WWE's DOWN PERIOD (a time when absolutely NO ONE will draw in significant ratings). Conclusion - It's absurd to believe that none of these so-called 'held back' talent (i.e. Kane, Jericho, RVD, etc.) can never draw in the future. The fans will ALWAYS get behind a good gimmick......like they did with Austin and Mick Foley. Be patient. Triple H won't be around forever. Once him and Shawn Michaels leave (on Raw), the fans will REALLY get behind a guy like Jericho if he's made to be 'the man'. Ditto for RVD. A simple heel turn (followed by him winning matches via cheating...which eventually evolves into him winning matches more cleanly) got EASILY get RVD's career back on track. Have faith. . . . . . . . . . .. The "real" End to this Post: So......which "Argument" or line of thought do you agree with more?