TPWW Forums - View Single Post - DISCUSSION: Invasion II (Raw vs. SD), Vince Russo's "philosophy", etc.

**big_bluto** · 07-06-2004, 08:18 AM

I'm kinda undecided on this issue.
I can see where a lot of you guys are coming from on re-uniting the rosters, and I can also see why they should be kept seperated.

I think the main reason that people are calling for the rosters to be reunited is because right now RAW > Smackdown.

If Smackdown was competing with RAW on an equal basis, then the roster split wouldn't even be discussed.
Now this is down to several reasons, namely horrendous writing, loss of talent in a short period, overloading of the roster on RAW, and major bouts of inconsistency.
This is a major abbreviation of what is wrong with Smackdown.

RAW has been pretty solid for a while now, but they're making their own mistakes all the time too.

The transfer of wrestlers on the whole between shows hasn't worked that well either:
Benoit on Smackdown = solid technical matches every week
Benoit on RAW = tag matches, occasional run-ins, rare singles matches.
Edge on Smackdown (pre-injury) = huge pops, rising star
Edge on RAW = upper mid-card, little credibility
However.....
Rico on RAW = weird jobber
Rico on Smackdown = Tag Team Gold!

Everyone has discussed their problems with Smackdown and RAW, their favourites with both shows, wrestlers, pushes, burials, potential storylines, etc for as long as we've all been posting here.

SO.....

Here's my take if they decided to re-unify the rosters:
If they are going to re-unify the rosters, then they should do so with a difference.
Otherwise we could end up with 2 HHH shows, and most of the same talent twice a week. This needs to be avoided like an orgy at Katie Vicks house!

Tag Division:
Get a list of about 24 wrestlers and make up 12 tag teams. These have to compete in a league. Only the league leaders can challenge the title holders. 4 tag matches per week, and given there is RAW, Smackdown, Velocity, Heat, etc, there will be plenty time to deliver that. Add/Remove tag teams every few months, but any new teams that start have to come in at the bottom of the league. 3 points for a win, -3 points for a loss. They could even have it that if you get above 10 points then you can challenge. That would give them enough mathematical variety to include triple threats, etc.

Cruiserweight Division:
They need to do some regular solid booking on this, in order to bring back some credibility to the belt. This can be done easily, by establishing a holder as someone credible: Mysterio, Noble, Chavo.
Then hold a tournament to get a number one contender at the next PPV. 3-4 CW matches per week, and you only get a shot if you are unbeaten for 3 consecutive matches, or something like that. This will give all the CW's the opportunity to get airtime, opportunity to show what they can do, and provide regular, new, challenges.

Title Rules:
A pecking order is established on the singles belts.
Basically they should be ranked as follows:
1. WWE Heavyweight Title
2. Intercontinental Title
3. US Title
A wrestler has to win the US Title, before he can challenge for the IC Title, and he must have won the US Title & the IC Title before he can challenge for the WWE Heavyweight title.
What this will do is give everyone who challenges at the top of the card some credibility, as they will have had to hold each of the titles for at least one month without getting beat.
In addition, each title should be defended at least once per week, otherwise the belt drops.

I'm not even gonna suggest names to go into each of these categories as that should probably be a thread of it's own.

The Hardcore title should be brought back and the 24/7 rule brought back, as this is a great way of injecting some action, hilarity or drama into the show at any given moment.

The Womens title should be defended at least once per week, with woment being legitimate wresters or Managers/Valets. Not both.

WWE Creative
The need to do several different things:
1. Fresh ideas from fresh faces - hire some talented creative writers who have had nothing to do with wrestling and see what they come up with.
2. Hire some creative fans like us - again, some new ideas from the melting pot, but from an analytical fans perspective
3. Use the wrestlers to create more of their personas themselves
4. Hire wrestlers who've been their, done that, and know what has and hasn't worked in the past.
5. Brainstorm like mad!
6. Come up with some good, long-term strategies and stick with them! At least the next year should be well planned out, with contingencies for change, so that if changes are required, then they are done smoothly.
7. Take more advantage of the internet. Spread some rumours, draw some interest, leak the occasional bit of truth, leak a load of mis-direction and put up a lot of smokescreens, carry feuds onto the website, etc. There's a whole new forum out there besides television - use it more!

The Wrestlers
I've thought for a long time now that wrestlers need to be able to run with their characters, more than read from a script. This same point was made in Stone Cold's book. That's how you develop characters like The Rock, Stone Cold, etc. The creative team and agents should be there to assist and help, provide advice, etc, but not tell a wrestler what to do, just guide him.

Commentators
We need less of the inane mutterings of Jerry 'The King' Lawler, because IMO it's insulting to the intelligence of the fans.
I'd like to see more technical commentary along the lines of Tazz or Bill DeMott, along side an announcer like JR.
I'd also love to see the end of 'BAH GAWD, HE'S BROKEN IN HALF' whenever a mediocre move is delivered, that you can see has barely connected.
Stop insulting our intelligence, and deliver commentary like a regular sports programme.

And finally.........
Talent
Stop wasting talent. Have some good storylines made up and some decent depth to characters developed before ramming someone down the fans throats.
If a wrestler is gonna be over with the fans, then it'll be up to the wrestler to be able to carry that. WWE should help that in a big way, but they have to pace it well.
Look at Orton and Cena - 2 of the most liked wrestlers in the WWE, getting sensible, slow and steady pushes, gaining credibility, and developing a fan-base. More of this. Less of 'New Guy Squashes Cruiserweight' (Mordecai, Kenzo Suzuki. Let wrestlers get over with their own skills.

Anyway, that's my take on if the rosters were re-united.

Happy to discuss as always.

Well done Heyman

- good comeback thread!

07-06-2004, 08:18 AM	#52
big_bluto Triple A's a bitch Posts: 1,039	I'm kinda undecided on this issue. I can see where a lot of you guys are coming from on re-uniting the rosters, and I can also see why they should be kept seperated. I think the main reason that people are calling for the rosters to be reunited is because right now RAW > Smackdown. If Smackdown was competing with RAW on an equal basis, then the roster split wouldn't even be discussed. Now this is down to several reasons, namely horrendous writing, loss of talent in a short period, overloading of the roster on RAW, and major bouts of inconsistency. This is a major abbreviation of what is wrong with Smackdown. RAW has been pretty solid for a while now, but they're making their own mistakes all the time too. The transfer of wrestlers on the whole between shows hasn't worked that well either: Benoit on Smackdown = solid technical matches every week Benoit on RAW = tag matches, occasional run-ins, rare singles matches. Edge on Smackdown (pre-injury) = huge pops, rising star Edge on RAW = upper mid-card, little credibility However..... Rico on RAW = weird jobber Rico on Smackdown = Tag Team Gold! Everyone has discussed their problems with Smackdown and RAW, their favourites with both shows, wrestlers, pushes, burials, potential storylines, etc for as long as we've all been posting here. SO..... *Here's my take if they decided to re-unify the rosters:* If they are going to re-unify the rosters, then they should do so with a difference. Otherwise we could end up with 2 HHH shows, and most of the same talent twice a week. This needs to be avoided like an orgy at Katie Vicks house! Tag Division: Get a list of about 24 wrestlers and make up 12 tag teams. These have to compete in a league. Only the league leaders can challenge the title holders. 4 tag matches per week, and given there is RAW, Smackdown, Velocity, Heat, etc, there will be plenty time to deliver that. Add/Remove tag teams every few months, but any new teams that start have to come in at the bottom of the league. 3 points for a win, -3 points for a loss. They could even have it that if you get above 10 points then you can challenge. That would give them enough mathematical variety to include triple threats, etc. Cruiserweight Division: They need to do some regular solid booking on this, in order to bring back some credibility to the belt. This can be done easily, by establishing a holder as someone credible: Mysterio, Noble, Chavo. Then hold a tournament to get a number one contender at the next PPV. 3-4 CW matches per week, and you only get a shot if you are unbeaten for 3 consecutive matches, or something like that. This will give all the CW's the opportunity to get airtime, opportunity to show what they can do, and provide regular, new, challenges. Title Rules: A pecking order is established on the singles belts. Basically they should be ranked as follows: 1. WWE Heavyweight Title 2. Intercontinental Title 3. US Title A wrestler has to win the US Title, before he can challenge for the IC Title, and he must have won the US Title & the IC Title before he can challenge for the WWE Heavyweight title. What this will do is give everyone who challenges at the top of the card some credibility, as they will have had to hold each of the titles for at least one month without getting beat. In addition, each title should be defended at least once per week, otherwise the belt drops. I'm not even gonna suggest names to go into each of these categories as that should probably be a thread of it's own. The Hardcore title should be brought back and the 24/7 rule brought back, as this is a great way of injecting some action, hilarity or drama into the show at any given moment. The Womens title should be defended at least once per week, with woment being legitimate wresters or Managers/Valets. Not both. WWE Creative The need to do several different things: 1. Fresh ideas from fresh faces - hire some talented creative writers who have had nothing to do with wrestling and see what they come up with. 2. Hire some creative fans like us - again, some new ideas from the melting pot, but from an analytical fans perspective 3. Use the wrestlers to create more of their personas themselves 4. Hire wrestlers who've been their, done that, and know what has and hasn't worked in the past. 5. Brainstorm like mad! 6. Come up with some good, long-term strategies and stick with them! At least the next year should be well planned out, with contingencies for change, so that if changes are required, then they are done smoothly. 7. Take more advantage of the internet. Spread some rumours, draw some interest, leak the occasional bit of truth, leak a load of mis-direction and put up a lot of smokescreens, carry feuds onto the website, etc. There's a whole new forum out there besides television - use it more! The Wrestlers I've thought for a long time now that wrestlers need to be able to run with their characters, more than read from a script. This same point was made in Stone Cold's book. That's how you develop characters like The Rock, Stone Cold, etc. The creative team and agents should be there to assist and help, provide advice, etc, but not tell a wrestler what to do, just guide him. Commentators We need less of the inane mutterings of Jerry 'The King' Lawler, because IMO it's insulting to the intelligence of the fans. I'd like to see more technical commentary along the lines of Tazz or Bill DeMott, along side an announcer like JR. I'd also love to see the end of 'BAH GAWD, HE'S BROKEN IN HALF' whenever a mediocre move is delivered, that you can see has barely connected. Stop insulting our intelligence, and deliver commentary like a regular sports programme. And finally......... Talent Stop wasting talent. Have some good storylines made up and some decent depth to characters developed before ramming someone down the fans throats. If a wrestler is gonna be over with the fans, then it'll be up to the wrestler to be able to carry that. WWE should help that in a big way, but they have to pace it well. Look at Orton and Cena - 2 of the most liked wrestlers in the WWE, getting sensible, slow and steady pushes, gaining credibility, and developing a fan-base. More of this. Less of 'New Guy Squashes Cruiserweight' (Mordecai, Kenzo Suzuki. Let wrestlers get over with their own skills. Anyway, that's my take on if the rosters were re-united. Happy to discuss as always. Well done Heyman - good comeback thread!