[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by Simple Fan So you think no TV would be better than Pursuit? I don't get that, promotions like Lucha Underground and MLW have been able to create stars on channels less prominent than Pursuit. ROH has created multiple stars being on syndication with no set timeslot at all. People that want to watch will find a way to. Yeah it allows them the freedom to take risk with their product. Whatever that may be from Scarlett to more violent looking matches and such. Pop wouldn't air the OVE/LAX Barbwire Massacre match which honestly wast all that gruesome. I don't think the logic you are using about gaining the 40,000 lost fans from TV to live crowds makes any sense. I see you ignored the part about this company doing nothing but TV to non paying crowds as well. How is it not considered growth when you go from having no live events and doing 4 tapings a year to now doing live events all year and tapings every few weeks? It's nothing big but the company is getting back to the basics after spending years being solely dependent on TV money. I get not liking the cinematic stuff that they've done, it doesn't seem to be your cup of tea between the Hardy's and Lucha Underground. It's not something everyone is going to like but it doesn't happen every week. It's just on segment of the show as well and not like everything is done that way. Certain stories are helped by it, I will say the LAX/OGz street fight one they did was bad but it did progress that story. I don't dig into their business metrics, I just watch the shows and can see the difference between now and a few years ago. I never claim to be smart, I'm not stupid but I am pretty reasonable. I mean I carry on with you even though we disagree on most things.

I think there's a good argument to be made for it. I mean, I think the product jumped the shark in an irreversible way quite a while ago. If Anthem wanted to get into wrestling, they probably should have started from scratch. What stars has Lucha Underground created? What stars have ROH created? That is nonsense. People that want to watch will find a way to? Well, that means 40,000 people less want to watch. If fewer people want to watch their product, they are going backwards. That has been my logic the whole time in response to you saying they are getting healthier and better. They are not.

TNA does not need more violence matches. We saw Eddie Edwards getting his face caved in and there seems to be plenty of garbage stuff on there. POP were right to not show that nonsense. Going somewhere that is going to allow them to be trashier is just going to mean a) they get perceived as being trashier, b) they become even more of a niche. Vince Russo was talking out his ass when he used standards and practices as an excuse for his WCW sucking, and Paul Heyman can tell you all about how ECW never managed to capture a wider audience.

Holy fuck, I didn't ignore the point about them getting a few hundred people to pay for tickets at all. I explicitly asked if that revenue is going to account for the tens of thousands of TV viewers they have lost, and challenged your incoherent idea that their fan base has grown by asking whether or not these slightly larger crowds outweight the massive drop in viewership? The answer is no, Simple. Stop telling people that TNA is becoming more popular. It is a lie.

It can be just one segment on a show. You can have just one nugget of shit on your sundae too. It's a tone and a presentation they are clearly proud of, and that's not how I personally like my wrestling. Others can like it if they want, but it's not surprise they are scaring off viewers. That is was my second original point -- 1) they are losing fans, 2) it's easy to see why.

If you don't look at the business metrics, why are you engaging in conversations about them by saying things like they're growing, they're more popular, their TV deal is good, audiences are paying now, they are going to Twitch and that's the deal that matters, etc.? I would stay out of this thread if it weren't so much fun busting your fucking lies about how their business is getting better when there is absolutely no evidence to support that claim.

You just talk down to people and say that they don't understand in an attempt to undermine their position without any actual talking points. It's shallow, it's cunty and it's something I think most people see through. I know that they're a different regime, I know that they charge a few folks for tickets and I knew they were doing this Twitch deal. But look at how desperate they are to get people to that given that they apparently need 15,000 people and they can't even get that because, newsflash, something else I know -- no one gives a fuck about TNA because they have been awful for a long time, and are still largely awful today.

Fuck you.