TPWW Forums - View Single Post - PART 1 - Do you agree or disagree with the following paragraphs?

**The CyNick** · 11-23-2004, 08:15 PM

There isn't anyone in wrestling today that getting a win over automatically makes that person a star. Not HHH, not Undertaker, not Kurt Angle, not HBK. The only scenario where I could see one win having a huge impact would be for someone to defeat Taker CLEANLY at Mania, ending his streak. But a win at any other show over Taker is pretty muchy meaningless.

The fact of the matter is nobody is over enough for a win to have that big of an impact. Benoit beat HHH and HBK by making them tap in back to back months, but that wasn't enough to get him over as a legit main event draw.

But the biggest problem with the WWE is that HHH just cant let anyone else get the spotlight. Benoit was starting to get on a roll after Mania and Backlash, but right after that, HHH used his pull to get Benoit out of the main event spot, and HHH was back in the spot, just without the belt. This made the belt seem pretty worthless, and marginalized Benoit as a rising star. Look where he is now, he's essentially got the Jerihco spot where they can put him in main events to have good matches, but he's well below the top mix.

Could he ever be 'the guy', maybe. But what happens is that fans lose faith in guys. Look at RVD and Jericho. I can point to times where those guys were as over as ANYONE in the company, and yet they were never given the chance to run with the ball. And everytime they would come close it was less and less effective because fans lost faith. Your average fan wants to pick a guy to cheer for who will win most of the time. Look at the all time great faces in modern history (Hogan, Austin, Rock, Goldberg) all these guys were booked as dominant faces and fans ate it up. Why? Because people want to cheer for the best, thats why the Yankees are the most popular team in baseball, ditto for the Lakers in basketball (or the BUlls in the 90s). So yeah Benoit was the champ, but he was a mid crad champion for most of his reign, and people were slapped in the face with the fact that nobody is bigger than HHH.

BTW, Heyman, you know I respect you, but dont use words like "myths" when talking about Hunter's power. Hunter is the most powerful person in wrestling, period, including Vince. Vince's problem is that he cant say no to Steph, and obviously Steph does whatever Hunter wants. So as a result the WWE has become Hunter's playground.

You talk about HHH making people, but he hasn't "made" anyone. The way you "make" someone is like what Foley did for Orton....and HHH.....and Rock. What Hunter does is typical political stuff, he'll do a "JOB", but does the win put the guy who beat Hunter above him in the pecking order? Hell no. This happened with Benoit, happened with Benjamin, and Hunter hasn't put over Orton yet, but he will at Mania, and the same thing will happen, in 4 or 5 months HHH will be back at THE top guy on RAW.

Also saying HHH is valuable is about the dumbest thing ever said. Look at the numbers, HHH is no more effective in terms of making money for the company than JBL is. There have been no new main event draws created since HHH took over the top spot for good in the summer of 2002, except for Brock, who HHH sabotaged.

In terms of Hunter looking out for himself, thats a fair point, but it shows that even though Hunter stands to inherite the WWE one day he cant get past his own ego to see that he should step aside for the better of the WWE. For some reason he looks at the falling PPV buys (all of which he headlines), the dismal house show attendance (all of which eh headline, at least the one's he's on) and flat TV ratings (most of which he is the focal point for), and says to himself "yeah I deserve to be on top". He is either too big of a mark for beating Ric Flair's title record (which means nothing to anyone besides himself) or too ignorant to see what is going on and has been going on for almost 3 years now.

So yeah, HHH can do a JOB here and there, and yeah it gets a pop, but where are the new stars? There are none. Look at every PPV (SD shows not included) since the summer of '02 and you'll see Hunter has been the one constant through it all, yet business continues to get worse and worse. So if anyone thinks that makes HHH effective, well I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

11-23-2004, 08:15 PM	#16
The CyNick Make the IWC Great Again Posts: 8,922	There isn't anyone in wrestling today that getting a win over automatically makes that person a star. Not HHH, not Undertaker, not Kurt Angle, not HBK. The only scenario where I could see one win having a huge impact would be for someone to defeat Taker CLEANLY at Mania, ending his streak. But a win at any other show over Taker is pretty muchy meaningless. The fact of the matter is nobody is over enough for a win to have that big of an impact. Benoit beat HHH and HBK by making them tap in back to back months, but that wasn't enough to get him over as a legit main event draw. But the biggest problem with the WWE is that HHH just cant let anyone else get the spotlight. Benoit was starting to get on a roll after Mania and Backlash, but right after that, HHH used his pull to get Benoit out of the main event spot, and HHH was back in the spot, just without the belt. This made the belt seem pretty worthless, and marginalized Benoit as a rising star. Look where he is now, he's essentially got the Jerihco spot where they can put him in main events to have good matches, but he's well below the top mix. Could he ever be 'the guy', maybe. But what happens is that fans lose faith in guys. Look at RVD and Jericho. I can point to times where those guys were as over as ANYONE in the company, and yet they were never given the chance to run with the ball. And everytime they would come close it was less and less effective because fans lost faith. Your average fan wants to pick a guy to cheer for who will win most of the time. Look at the all time great faces in modern history (Hogan, Austin, Rock, Goldberg) all these guys were booked as dominant faces and fans ate it up. Why? Because people want to cheer for the best, thats why the Yankees are the most popular team in baseball, ditto for the Lakers in basketball (or the BUlls in the 90s). So yeah Benoit was the champ, but he was a mid crad champion for most of his reign, and people were slapped in the face with the fact that nobody is bigger than HHH. BTW, Heyman, you know I respect you, but dont use words like "myths" when talking about Hunter's power. Hunter is the most powerful person in wrestling, period, including Vince. Vince's problem is that he cant say no to Steph, and obviously Steph does whatever Hunter wants. So as a result the WWE has become Hunter's playground. You talk about HHH making people, but he hasn't "made" anyone. The way you "make" someone is like what Foley did for Orton....and HHH.....and Rock. What Hunter does is typical political stuff, he'll do a "JOB", but does the win put the guy who beat Hunter above him in the pecking order? Hell no. This happened with Benoit, happened with Benjamin, and Hunter hasn't put over Orton yet, but he will at Mania, and the same thing will happen, in 4 or 5 months HHH will be back at THE top guy on RAW. Also saying HHH is valuable is about the dumbest thing ever said. Look at the numbers, HHH is no more effective in terms of making money for the company than JBL is. There have been no new main event draws created since HHH took over the top spot for good in the summer of 2002, except for Brock, who HHH sabotaged. In terms of Hunter looking out for himself, thats a fair point, but it shows that even though Hunter stands to inherite the WWE one day he cant get past his own ego to see that he should step aside for the better of the WWE. For some reason he looks at the falling PPV buys (all of which he headlines), the dismal house show attendance (all of which eh headline, at least the one's he's on) and flat TV ratings (most of which he is the focal point for), and says to himself "yeah I deserve to be on top". He is either too big of a mark for beating Ric Flair's title record (which means nothing to anyone besides himself) or too ignorant to see what is going on and has been going on for almost 3 years now. So yeah, HHH can do a JOB here and there, and yeah it gets a pop, but where are the new stars? There are none. Look at every PPV (SD shows not included) since the summer of '02 and you'll see Hunter has been the one constant through it all, yet business continues to get worse and worse. So if anyone thinks that makes HHH effective, well I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.