[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan What are the top 2 or 3 social reasons? If I’m straw-manning this shit, please feel free to correct me.

I think promoting violence between men and women is irresponsible since it’s supposed to be presented as a fight. I’m not saying most men don’t usually have a few pounds on most women or dismissing domestic violence as an issue. I am disputing that Nyla Rose used to “scientifically” be a man. You might have thought of her as one, but the issue is far more intricate than big, burly dude with angry brain becomes big-boned woman.

It’s just dicey to say that trans women used to be “scientifically” male. It’s way too much of a box and just a set of assumptions that science doesn’t make anymore just because someone had a Hogan instead of a Terry down there.

Originally Posted by Seph lol at the assertion we weren't talking about gender Noid. When we are talking about transGENDER people. Theres just so much to break down in that post up there, I don't even know where to start, really. M2F transgender athletes are increasingly being crowned champions in multiple women's sports, including but not limited to: Weight lifting, track and field and cycling. Men who identify as female but are still biologically male are even being allowed to enter into women's competition at this point and are winning. Some of these athletes will be competing in the Olympics next year. But since men supposedly aren't physically superior on a base level we should see the same trend in the opposite direction, with F2M trans athletes doing well in mens sports. Shocker though, they aren't. You keep going on about testosterone not being a big deal, but now with the caveat of it being in normal levels. News flash, biological males have a much higher normal amount of it than females do. It's one of the reasons why men have a physical advantage. And when a male transitions to female and that level of testosterone is brought down to normal levels for a female it does not remove the YEARS of physical benefits the higher level of T brought to them as a male. It is absolutely outrageous to claim what you are about testosterone, there is a very distinct reason it is so highly monitored in athletics. Because it is a power level and it's over 9000 whether you like it or not. How someone feels, or identifies, or aligns at any given point in their life is a part of their gender, but it is not the only part. The physical biology matters. Someone can be born feeling female from day one but be biologically male and reap all the benefits from that. Identity may be an extremely complicated topic, but biology is not nearly so. To suggest Nyla Rose may have been a woman since birth is ridiculous. She wasn't. She was physically born a male. Facts don't care about your feelings or hers or anyone elses. You come off as someone whos heart is absolutely in the right place but it's making you commit to some really strange arguments.

Well, to start, a lot of trans people are moving away from “transgender” as a label. It’s not that it is offensive, but some prefer transitioning away from gender or away from binaries altogether, and it doesn’t describe the biological stuff that is going on.

If we are talking gender, then it’s a false point to bring up her assigned sex anyway. If you’re talking about gender, drop the sex stuff, if you’re talking about sex, then her gender has got nothing to do with it.

Are they? It seems like every time a trans woman wins anything it’s major news. The list of famous trans athletes is relatively small. Are they cropping up at a consistent rate as other trans people, or is this a “vaccinations cause autism” type point. Maybe our diagnoses are getting better?

Trans women would hold a lot more records if they had a blanket advantage. A lot reduce their testosterone and take other hormonal supplements. Is being bigger and stronger going to help? Of course. No one is saying that, you’ve flown off the handle making up things. I’m saying that many trans women work hard to alter elements of their biology, which *can* negate certain advantages at certain times in certain sports.

Why do you think the Olympics are letting trans athletes compete? Think about it.

Do you have any evidence to suggest that trans women are being crowned champions in sport at a disproportionate rate to their success in business, music or even just their rate of transition? By that I mean is there an even split between trans men and trans women? If there were, say, more trans women than trans men, wouldn’t you expect there to be an outstanding number of trans women athletes comparatively? Also, there are trans men who achieve in the sporting field. I think your alarm is dramatic.

Lol, I brought up testosterone once and said that it “isn’t what people think it is.” You read into that because, like it or not, your argument is emotive. Are you really saying you are more qualified to comment on this more than the actual experts that, at worst (for my point), split on this? Until you have evidence to suggest that definitively that what you are saying is true, I’m going to call bullshit.

And...that’s not even the fucking point! I wasn’t talking about men in shoot sports allegedly taking all the cool spots, I’m talking about a woman worker, who, yes, should be making it look real, but is in a worked position. I’m fine with trans women in sports, but I’m fine if they addressed the “hysteria” too. Given how easily guys get their panties in a twist about it though, it’s obviously why they shouldn’t.