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Old 10-23-2014, 06:35 AM   #132
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drave makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)drave makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)drave makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)drave makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)drave makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)drave makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)drave makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)drave makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)drave makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)drave makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)drave makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)drave makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)drave makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
So you generally don't agree with getting advertisers to back off? Okay, that's cool.
If that is what you deduce, okay I guess? I do not agree with a method that attacks a company as a whole if an issue exists with only a "radical few". But since you stated previously that you have "never heard that stance before" I will expect it to fall flat. Not a big deal, just a different viewpoint.

Nobody says they don't condone it to infer it doesn't occur. Nobody's saying it doesn't happen. I don't get what you're getting at aside from 'It's all your fault' - which is something I can never reply to. What would you have us do? Stop the consumer/readership concerns of the movement so the byproduct harassment can stop? How many other groups and movements would you want to completely stop because of the actions of bad apples within those movements/groups?
I think this entire "movement" has gone so far off track that yes, it needs to stop, ON BOTH SIDES, and be repackaged with a more organized effort with clear objectives. I get the objectives of the movement when it started, but it was derailed in less than 48 hours and has only continued to worsen. Anything positive gained moving forward will only be overshadowed with the harassment/threat news that helped the movement gain so much popularity. Also do not understand why people care so much about viewpoints of people that "don't know what they are talking about".

So I would ask my question again but replace CoD with FPS Community.
Sure. Now quickly give examples of other genre games involved in swatting incidents so you can tell me how wrong I am and feel better

We have no control over people taking advantage of the situation. None at all.
Exactly. Yet another, if not the prime reason, to reboot.

Sloppy? We contacted PR firms via email and Twitter. What is the 'clean' way of doing that if simple emails are 'sloppy'?
How about dealing with the few bad apples that GG has issues with? Not working? Involving the entire company is the wrong answer, in my thoughts, because parties not involved are dragged into it. As for an alternative method, I cannot answer it as I do not give it enough thought process. This entire situation is so damn dumb it blows my mind how "srs bsnss" it has become. Then I remember - the internet. No way in hell this would ever happen if things were not from behind an anonymous screen.

That's fine. If you like I can PM you a list of GamerGate supporters who have been dox'd or generally harassed. I don't think this would change your mind about that, but later on I could give you that gamer collateral damage if you don't think it happened.
I was referring to collateral damage from the name calling, as you referenced here:

A valid point, but you can't use that point without acknowledging the harm that comes from sites calling all gamers misogynist, racists, terrorists.
I am a gamer. I read the articles when they started popping up. I shrugged it off as someone who did not know what they were talking about and moved on..... because that is exactly what has happened. However, because of HOW it was done, mainly with Sarkeesian, everyone reacted exactly how she expected. While she may think the ideas of hers are valid concerns, she delivers it in a way where she knows the reactions she will garner before anything is even said. Well done, playing right into her hand.

A female YouTuber was one of the first to get doxxed and she made a video about the matter. We can start with that if you like. And @Nero, a journalist who is sympathetic to GG, had a syringe sent to his house.
I never said anything to the contrary, did I? The journos are as guilty as the GG activists when it comes to this behavior.

It seems to be that you're willing to carry the idea of journalists and indy game devs being doxxed and harassed, enough for this to be a main point of yours, while gamers getting trolled the same way is met with grains of salt. Only after I speak about gamers getting this treatment did you consider how hard it is to prove anything. Hell, you technically didn't see any journalists and devs get doxed either. Everybody's word against everybody's! Who's lying who's wrong?!
I have never denied that it wasn't happening on both ends. The "who is lying" game is similar to that of countries who aren't necessarily enemies, but not buddies either. Think US and Russia relations right now. Not the best of friends yet not really "enemies". Both sides manipulate the other but neither "condone or admit" to anything negative.

Originally Posted by Drave
I am talking financial damage. People that have zero to do with this could be financially impacted thanks to the stupidity of both sides of this nonsensical issue. Devs having to move ENTIRE FAMILY HOUSEHOLDS because of a group of trolls that want to "doxx" people?
Originally Posted by Drave
Nothing that anyone is fond of, yet it continues to happen and the GG movement directly correlates with every doxxing that has occurred on the few journalists in the recent months/weeks. There is no concrete way to prove that GG activists are or aren't responsible for said doxxing (which is not what I am saying), other than "we don't condone it". However, if the GG "movement" never occurred, the doxxing of said individuals never would have either.
The bold portion you even agreed to by your own admission.

If you're at a place where you just want it to stop, I get that. But as you said it probably won't stop. The unfortunate trolling will continue on both sides until we root out the assholes (which is a more likely unilateral victory than journalists simply apologizing and not calling us ISIS).
I am at the same place I have been all along. This entire situation is very silly. It has now degenerated into something so distasteful, it makes me ashamed of the gaming community as a whole, on BOTH sides of the spectrum. Continuing this will do nothing positive for anyone, ever.

That troll is a game developer. And most of her side make tweets just like that. So they're all trolls?
I believe you are smarter than the context of that statement. If you could not tell that this tweet:

Is such a trolling statement meant to garner attention then your cause is in worse shape than I thought. Dev or not, that statement achieved what it set out to, and that is attention. The type of attention does not matter, and such statements are meant to make people rage. Again, predictably behaving just as the trolls want. If you wish to make a sweeping generalization that "all devs are trolls" from me pointing out that she clearly was trolling, I am not really sure what to say to that other than "okay".

My main point:

If the root cause of the movement is to hold true, then things need to be restarted under a new label/movement. This entire thing escalated to obscene levels before it even truly took off. Nothing that anyone does, from either side, will net anything positive for the gaming community, gamers in general or the industry as a whole.
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