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Old 08-24-2010, 04:49 PM   #1
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The chances of James Toney winning on Sat?


For some reason I never get tired of seeing that

Honestly, does anybody see James being able to get a straight knockout on Randy like Mercer did to Sylvia?
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Old 08-24-2010, 06:50 PM   #2
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50-50
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Old 08-24-2010, 10:55 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Reavant View Post
50-50
LOL what? Good lord.
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Old 08-25-2010, 06:27 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rectal Pertruder View Post
LOL what? Good lord.
dirty boxing is when randy gets a guy in a clinch and punches him.


listen, toney moved through five boxing divisions and held belts in all of them including heavyweight. while doing that he had huge one-hit KO wins and thats with the pillows on his hands.

Big Nog is supposed to have good hands right? Well he has OK hands, but we all saw what he did to randy on the feet.
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Old 08-24-2010, 07:21 PM   #5
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I am scared for Randy, I know he is one of the best EVER but a punch from Toney could take him out in a second. I'd say 50/50 as well.
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Old 08-24-2010, 07:22 PM   #6
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Sad thing is, Mercer got outstruck AND submitted by Kimbo Slice.
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Old 08-24-2010, 07:32 PM   #7
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Why wouldn't Randy just wrestle him to the ground and lie on top of him? Fight over. If Randy tries to stand up he's going to get his face punched in pretty badly.
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Old 08-24-2010, 07:34 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Capitano Gatisto View Post
Why wouldn't Randy just wrestle him to the ground and lie on top of him? Fight over. If Randy tries to stand up he's going to get his face punched in pretty badly.
Exactly. But the fight starts standing, so advantage Toney.
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Old 08-24-2010, 10:56 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funky Fly View Post
Exactly. But the fight starts standing, so advantage Toney.
Are you fucking serious right now? Is this a black man thing? I hope it is, cause you have no other reason to say this. Do you know what dirty boxing is? What. Do you think Randy is just gunna sit there and box Toney? Really?


You guys are insane. It's pretty clear that half of you dont know what the fuck you're talking about on this forum.
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Old 08-24-2010, 11:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rectal Pertruder View Post
Are you fucking serious right now? Is this a black man thing? I hope it is, cause you have no other reason to say this. Do you know what dirty boxing is? What. Do you think Randy is just gunna sit there and box Toney? Really?


You guys are insane. It's pretty clear that half of you dont know what the fuck you're talking about on this forum.
Not a black guy thing. I think outside of his ability to beat people to a pulp, he is one of the most useless people alive. Yeah, I know what dirty boxing is, but have you seen Toney fight? For a fat ass, he has a tendency to destroy people. If he can pass his drug test (the biggest challenge here), Randy had better pray to god it goes to the ground fast. If he takes a punch, even a glancing one, on the way in with 4 oz gloves HE WILL DIE.
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Old 08-24-2010, 07:37 PM   #11
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yep. plus once randy gets on top he still has to finish the fight pretty fast, lay and pray might just get him killed too.
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Old 08-24-2010, 10:54 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mask View Post
yep. plus once randy gets on top he still has to finish the fight pretty fast, lay and pray might just get him killed too.
Really? Cause i'll straight up make a paypal bet right now that says James Toney gasses trying to punch Randy from his back.
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Old 08-24-2010, 07:41 PM   #13
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Toney is a good bit past his prime, Randy is still fighting in MMA at a high level. I think Randy should be ok if he just wrestles him to the floor. I doubt Toney has thrown many punches while lying on his back with some cunts hands in his face.

Alternatively Randy will just hug Toney onto the fence and break one of his arms for him.
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Old 08-24-2010, 08:16 PM   #14
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Which begs the question "Has Toney been training punches from his back?"

Even if he has though, if Randy gets this fight to the ground, it's pretty much curtains.
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Old 08-24-2010, 10:05 PM   #15
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Toney shouldn't be in an MMA fight if he hasn't been trainning punches from his back.

Just shoot on the guy right way, and Toney will panic and Couture will probably submit him.
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Old 08-24-2010, 10:51 PM   #16
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good motherfucking lord have you guys seen Toney? He's as fat as me. Punching power means nothing in MMA. This guy could have a fucking anvil in his gloves and it wont matter. Randy will just take him down repeatedly. And if for whatever reason he cant get him down ( which there's no chance he doesnt take him down ), he'll press him up against the cage and destroy him in the clinch. James Toney has no chance at all. 0. Anyone who thinks that needs there fucking head checked. It's pretty fucking insulting that you even post that Mercier vs Sylvia video. Sylvia was fat, out of shape, no take down ability whatsoever and retarded to boot.

Come the fuck on. You guys are fucking nuts.
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Old 08-25-2010, 04:12 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rectal Pertruder View Post
good motherfucking lord have you guys seen Toney? He's as fat as me. Punching power means nothing in MMA. This guy could have a fucking anvil in his gloves and it wont matter. Randy will just take him down repeatedly. And if for whatever reason he cant get him down ( which there's no chance he doesnt take him down ), he'll press him up against the cage and destroy him in the clinch. James Toney has no chance at all. 0. Anyone who thinks that needs there fucking head checked. It's pretty fucking insulting that you even post that Mercier vs Sylvia video. Sylvia was fat, out of shape, no take down ability whatsoever and retarded to boot.

Come the fuck on. You guys are fucking nuts.
Wow, you seem alittle on edge. Like I said Tim Sylvia is not Randy Couture, and Toney isnt Mercer. You cant ignore the fact that Toney is still a champion level boxer, you dont become a champ without having powerful hands. Randy is still the favorite because it sounds like Toney is completely relying on his boxing skills.
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Old 08-24-2010, 10:58 PM   #18
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I guarantee Toney will get his shit pressed up against the cage, get his jelly belly and double chin punched to living hell and be sucking wind 2 minutes into this fight.
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Old 08-24-2010, 10:59 PM   #19
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If Randy Couture comes out with his hands in the air waiting for punches, hell will freeze right the fuck over.
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Old 08-24-2010, 11:04 PM   #20
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I fucking hate James Toney. He is such a loser, every interview I want to see him die. He has a 2% chance of winning. What a yoke.
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Old 08-25-2010, 03:01 AM   #21
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Just cause he's a great boxer doesn't mean he's just gonna walk in and knock Randy's chin off.
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Old 08-25-2010, 06:02 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funky Fly View Post
If he takes a punch, even a glancing one, on the way in with 4 oz gloves HE WILL DIE.
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Originally Posted by Impact! View Post
Just cause he's a great boxer doesn't mean he's just gonna walk in and knock Randy's chin off.
He's not gonna go in there and put on a boxing clinic. That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying if he glances him with a shot, Randy will buckle for a second and Toney will run in and lay the hammer down.

Sincerely doubt that Randy is gonna stand up with him. If he did he'd get countered all over the place and KTFOd in no time. I doubt he'd even wanna risk clinching him. Toney could very well have powerful Carwinesque short punches, even in the disadvantaged position.

What I am saying tho, is that this shit is going to the ground unless Toney gets a shot or 2 in right away.

Never said Toney would win, only that he's got the immediate advantage.
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Old 08-25-2010, 05:16 AM   #23
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James Toney: the only freakshow is the one between my legs
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Old 08-25-2010, 03:06 PM   #24
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Im with Reav on this one, plus...you gotta factor in that Toney had power when he was wearing, what, 12 ounce gloves? Imagine the power when he slaps on those UFC's.

It doesnt take an MMA analyst to know that Randy's chance at winning depend on how quick he can get it to the ground.
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Old 08-25-2010, 04:20 PM   #25
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Quote:
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Im with Reav on this one, plus...you gotta factor in that Toney had power when he was wearing, what, 12 ounce gloves? Imagine the power when he slaps on those UFC's.

It doesnt take an MMA analyst to know that Randy's chance at winning depend on how quick he can get it to the ground.
Pro boxing matches use 8 - 10 oz. gloves I think. There is padding there, but all that really does is help you hit harder. I doubt there's much difference between MMA gloves and boxing fight gloves really.
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Old 08-25-2010, 04:57 PM   #26
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James Toney has about a 5% chance of winning this fight.

If James Toney comes out with a legit boxing stance he'll have to land the first shot or else that take down will be simple for Randy, he'll just topple right over.

If James Toney comes out in a wider lest conventional boxing stance he won't have nearly the same zip on his punches nor the same precision because he won't have the years of practice with that stance. He'll have a better chance of landing punches on Randy coming in but he'll still be taken down.

James Toney only has a punches chance... and not a very good punchers chance at that.

Toney isn't in the same shape that Couture is in and he's used to punching from his legs and hips which a lot of that is generated from wearing boxing shoes. Go and throw a punch while barefoot then throw a punch while wearing shoes... Their is a big difference in power and speed and even confidence in those punches.

One may think "that's kinda grasping a straws their" it might be but boxers are thoroughbreds that have to have things just right in order to be at their very best. And James Toney needs to be at his absolute best because he's going to get somewhere between 1 and 5 real shots at knocking Randy out before Randy puts him on the deck. Which means he has to be anywhere between 20% to 100% power punching accuracy. Even if Randy gets caught with a shot it has to be a knockout shot or else the fight is over.

If Randy gets clipped coming in but doesn't get knocked out he'll still complete the take down and has time to recover to work a fairly easy submission win.

Whoever said that Toney could knock Randy out from his back is insane, very few people have that sort of arm power and Toney is a born and bred boxer he learned a long time ago not to use his arms for power. All the power comes from his legs and hips both of which will be totally neutralized when he's on his back.

Randy wins this fight 95 times out of 100. The only way Toney stands a chance is if some how he comes in with some semelence of take down defense yet is still able to maintain power while trying to defend a takedown... To have both of those is is very hard for seasoned mixed martial artists let alone people who have never fought in a cage before.
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Old 08-25-2010, 05:13 PM   #27
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i don't think anyone said toney was gonna KO randy from his back. that's obviously not the kind of thing you can do with punches, at least against a high level mma fighter.

also as far as the gloves, even if the padding is similar, although mma gloves are 4oz i believe, the size means you can be a lot more precise in mma gloves and get through where you wouldn't be able to with boxing gloves, and all your power is focused in a more compact area on impact.
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Old 08-25-2010, 05:20 PM   #28
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i don't think anyone said toney was gonna KO randy from his back. that's obviously not the kind of thing you can do with punches, at least against a high level mma fighter.

also as far as the gloves, even if the padding is similar, although mma gloves are 4oz i believe, the size means you can be a lot more precise in mma gloves and get through where you wouldn't be able to with boxing gloves, and all your power is focused in a more compact area on impact.
That's not what knocks people out. It's the snapping of the head. Focusing the impact would make cutting and superficial damage more likely, but it's thought that boxing gloves may actually make brain damage (which is essentially what a knock-out is, a brain-damaging impact) more likely (same with helmets in amateur boxing actually).
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Old 08-25-2010, 05:15 PM   #29
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can't wait for Randy to make Toney tap and shut him up
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Old 08-25-2010, 05:17 PM   #30
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i would love randy to just get in an awesome ground position and punch him out rather than tap. humiliate him a bit more.
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Old 08-25-2010, 05:20 PM   #31
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I hate saying He has a punchers chance, becasue that's a huge cliche.

I'll give him a 15% chance.
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Old 08-25-2010, 05:22 PM   #32
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Also I think boxing gloves are 12-16 ounces.
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Old 08-25-2010, 05:24 PM   #33
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Also I think boxing gloves are 12-16 ounces.
No they aren't. Sparring gloves in boxing are 14-16 ounces. The one fight I've had, we were in there with 8 ounce gloves. I am guessing pro fighters may even go down to 6.
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Old 08-25-2010, 05:32 PM   #34
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No they aren't. Sparring gloves in boxing are 14-16 ounces. The one fight I've had, we were in there with 8 ounce gloves. I am guessing pro fighters may even go down to 6.
i think they stay 8-10, i remember hearing something about floyd mayweather wanting 10oz for the pacquiao fight were it to ever happen. and in the billy collins jr vs resto fight where resto had stuffing removed from the gloves they were meant to be 8oz but resto's were 6. but then he had his hands wrapped in plaster of paris too so i couldn't really speculate as to how much difference the removed stuffing made compared to the fists of rock.
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Old 08-25-2010, 05:27 PM   #35
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yeah i know, i was more getting at it's probably easier to connect with uppercuts and shots to the chin in mma gloves, and shots to the temple where in boxing your opponents gloves are more likely to protect them.

i can believe that about boxing gloves and helmets though. every time i trained with helmets/shin guards in muay thai/mma i always felt like shit afterwards. the shin guards were the worst, without them i come away with a few tiny bruises, with them both my shins were just one massive big bruise from knee to ankle. i showed my mum for a laugh around the same time i broke my ribs and she has hated me doing any kind of martial art ever since.
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Old 08-25-2010, 05:38 PM   #36
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Quote:
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yeah i know, i was more getting at it's probably easier to connect with uppercuts and shots to the chin in mma gloves, and shots to the temple where in boxing your opponents gloves are more likely to protect them.

i can believe that about boxing gloves and helmets though. every time i trained with helmets/shin guards in muay thai/mma i always felt like shit afterwards. the shin guards were the worst, without them i come away with a few tiny bruises, with them both my shins were just one massive big bruise from knee to ankle. i showed my mum for a laugh around the same time i broke my ribs and she has hated me doing any kind of martial art ever since.
I think what it will come down to is whether Couture decides to keep the fight stood up. Why he would do that is beyond me. Also, in boxing if someone clinches Toney, he just has to wait for a break whereas Couture will be in his element, right where he wants him.

If it was a boxing match, Toney would pulverise him but they are different sports and I think everyone should just accept that and enjoy them as such. I do think MMA guys could learn a bit from doing some boxing training but I think there's very little that can apply going the other way. We've had some guys come in to our gym from MMA backgrounds who need their stances and punching form completely corrected to give them any punching power or defence. They tend not to do too well in sparring either.

As for the helmets and gloves, I was writing a paper on Alzheimer's Disease last year so I was looking up stuff about neurological injury and degeneration. Out of interest I read a lot of the stuff on boxing, and the evidence suggests that gloves and helmets reduce superficial injury but increase brain and eye damage. I think (don't quote) the BMA support a full ban of boxing but suggest bare knuckle would actually be safer when it comes to brain damage, mainly because of the reduced punching power (a skull is much tougher than a hand and hands break very easily) and reduced snapping motion from the lack of padding.
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Old 08-25-2010, 05:48 PM   #37
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Quote:
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I think what it will come down to is whether Couture decides to keep the fight stood up. Why he would do that is beyond me. Also, in boxing if someone clinches Toney, he just has to wait for a break whereas Couture will be in his element, right where he wants him.

If it was a boxing match, Toney would pulverise him but they are different sports and I think everyone should just accept that and enjoy them as such. I do think MMA guys could learn a bit from doing some boxing training but I think there's very little that can apply going the other way. We've had some guys come in to our gym from MMA backgrounds who need their stances and punching form completely corrected to give them any punching power or defence. They tend not to do too well in sparring either.

As for the helmets and gloves, I was writing a paper on Alzheimer's Disease last year so I was looking up stuff about neurological injury and degeneration. Out of interest I read a lot of the stuff on boxing, and the evidence suggests that gloves and helmets reduce superficial injury but increase brain and eye damage. I think (don't quote) the BMA support a full ban of boxing but suggest bare knuckle would actually be safer when it comes to brain damage, mainly because of the reduced punching power (a skull is much tougher than a hand and hands break very easily) and reduced snapping motion from the lack of padding.
i think i've seen a video where couture has said the fight is going straight to the ground, he's definitely not standing with toney. most mma fighters train in boxing too as far as i'm aware, but it's adapted for mma cause the boxing stance is rubbish when faced with shin kicks and takedowns. which means mma fighters can't really punch compared to boxers, but it stops them getting sat on for 3 rounds. if a boxer spent some serious time learning ground fighting and takedowns/takedown defense i think that would be interesting, and far more likely to be successful than an mma fighter going the other way.

heard that about bare knuckle boxing too. actually i read they don't even bother going for the head usually since it's too high risk.
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Old 08-25-2010, 05:27 PM   #38
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Now ECG I have a question for you. This might come off as a really dumb question though.

Say when a guy gets knocked out, but the ref doesn't stop it in time, and the guy on top gets like 2 good shots in before the match is stopped. Does the guy was knocked out feel those punches? Do the punches have any effect on him at all?
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Old 08-25-2010, 05:39 PM   #39
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Now ECG I have a question for you. This might come off as a really dumb question though.

Say when a guy gets knocked out, but the ref doesn't stop it in time, and the guy on top gets like 2 good shots in before the match is stopped. Does the guy was knocked out feel those punches? Do the punches have any effect on him at all?
He won't feel it if he is out cold but obviously it will cause more damage. The punch by Henderson on a prone Bisping last year looked absolutely awful and that kind of thing doesn't do MMA any favours.
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Old 08-25-2010, 06:34 PM   #40
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For the record, unless Randy knocks him out standing - James Toney is never, ever going to shut up. Remember, he's coming to our house since we're too "scared" to go to his.
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