Thoughts on this...

[The Naitch]

Remember when they "slit up" the RAW show and changed it to "WCW" for the main event. Not asking your thoughts on the Buff Bagwell vs. Booker T match, but what did you think of the concept. Would've it worked? They changed the announcers, the ring mats, the logo at the bottom etc...

Well I thought that the pretty cool because it really pushed the whole Invasion thing. The problem was that they didn't have the top guys in WCW, announcers included. They had Anderson and Madden, who I don't mind, but if they had say Schivonne (sp) or Tenay, it would been better. As for the match, Booker was good because he was hot at the time, but WTF with Bagwell. That really killed WCW, by not having someone like a Stiener or whomever was big. I mean this wasn't what killed the angle or anything, a lot of sh** put together did, but this wasn't the way to start the angle off.

[CBright7831]

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon Well I thought that the pretty cool because it really pushed the whole Invasion thing. The problem was that they didn't have the top guys in WCW, announcers included. They had Anderson and Madden, who I don't mind, but if they had say Schivonne (sp) or Tenay, it would been better. As for the match, Booker was good because he was hot at the time, but WTF with Bagwell. That really killed WCW, by not having someone like a Stiener or whomever was big. I mean this wasn't what killed the angle or anything, a lot of sh** put together did, but this wasn't the way to start the angle off.

It was Scott Hudson and Arn Anderson I think.

AND THE ONLY MARK OUT MOMENT FOR THE WHOLE INVASION ANGLE?!?!?

WHAT ABOUT THIS?!?!?!?

[Fox]

The concept was good, but the match sucked, and killed WCW's momentum before it even left the starting gate.

[Oxstar]

It was a big disapointment to me!

[Savio]

You got that pic from me!

[The Naitch]

no, Buff Bagwell emailed it to me

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by The Naitch no, Buff Bagwell emailed it to me

[Bazooka]

Originally Posted by The Naitch no, Buff Bagwell emailed it to me

lol, how much did that cost?

[Bazooka]

Remember when Bagwell sold a conversation with him over ebay. What was the final bid?

Originally Posted by Invisible Remember when Bagwell sold a conversation with him over ebay. What was the final bid?

well the only bid was too low for Buff ( a piece of lint) so Buff decided on a trade with good ol' Hacksaw Jim Duggan. Hacksaw's 2x4 for Bagwell's convo.

[The Naitch]

Originally Posted by Invisible lol, how much did that cost?

his soul

[Savio]

Originally Posted by The Naitch no, Buff Bagwell emailed it to me

Well I emailed it to buff so in a way i e-mailed it to you.

[Rob]

The concept was poor because they were just going to call Raw a WCW show eventually and the WWF fans didn't want to go to WCW shows. Didn't matter if they had WWF guys working that show as "WCW wrestlers" either because the casual fans just pissed on it. They should have got WCW their own spot but then again, they didn't have Flair, Goldberg, Steiner or Sting so nobody cared.

[James Steele]

True...

But, this goes right along with the WWE's writing staff's motto

"Good Idea...Bad Execution...Or We'll Just F*ck It Up"

[PureHatred]

Originally Posted by JamesSteele True... But, this goes right along with the WWE's writing staff's motto "Good Idea...Bad Execution...Or We'll Just F*ck It Up"

So it was the writing staff's idea to not bring in the biggest WCW names at the time and to have Buff have a shit match?

The whole InVasion was completely ****'d from beginning to end and the entire backstage staff deserves credit for that.

[The Naitch]

I wonder how many people here bought those "WCW" shirts?

[Evolution]

Originally Posted by The Naitch I wonder how many people here bought those "WCW" shirts?

With the new Shane McMahon WCW logo? I SOOOOOOOOOO wanted one of those. Might get a counterfeit done.

Remember when Hardcore Holly was signing autographs at WWF New York and a guy (about 16 years old) got to the front of the queue and he was wearing one? Holly said "You ain't in WCW New York Boy!" and ripped his shirt off to the delight of the fans.

Obvious plant but it got Holly (a little) heat. Just like X-pac got a little cheer by wearing a WWF Attitude T-Shirt against Kidman.

[The Mackem]

Remember the brawl at the end of that Raw episode. It kicked ass.

[James Steele]

Let me explain PureHatred,


They had a good idea going with the Invasion angle. They started out good, but they were stupid to stretch it out so f'n long. It should have ended at InVasion... not 4 months later!
The Mike Awesome/ Hardcore title was a great start (because it was at MSG)

The writing staff is at fault for the incredibly sh*t stroylines. DDP The Stalker ring a bell? OR maybe having the damn WCW Title defended by and against only WWF wrestlers.(Rock v. Jericho for the WCW Title at Unforgiven [?]) WCW Tag Titles were the only exception

And the Inter-promotional matches should have not been done so early... the interpromotional fueds could have easily been kept off until the "Final Battle PPV"



also, Buff Bagwell and sh*t matches are synonyms.

[PureHatred]

Originally Posted by JamesSteele Let me explain PureHatred, They had a good idea going with the Invasion angle. They started out good, but they were stupid to stretch it out so f'n long. It should have ended at InVasion... not 4 months later! The Mike Awesome/ Hardcore title was a great start (because it was at MSG) The writing staff is at fault for the incredibly sh*t stroylines. DDP The Stalker ring a bell? OR maybe having the damn WCW Title defended by and against only WWF wrestlers.(Rock v. Jericho for the WCW Title at Unforgiven [?]) WCW Tag Titles were the only exception And the Inter-promotional matches should have not been done so early... the interpromotional fueds could have easily been kept off until the "Final Battle PPV" also, Buff Bagwell and sh*t matches are synonyms.

Those shit storylines were the result of Vince's refusal to really push the WCW guys. There was more done to bury them than anything.

Booker T was made out to look like a complete joke in his program with The Rock. RVD managed to get over, but was basically ignored. And DDP was buried after Undertaker said he "couldn't work." Hence DDP & Kanyon getting absolutely killed by UT & Kane, and DDP actually jobbing to the 'Taker's wife.

Then of course there was the fact that the one real mark-out moment of the Invasion angle was Heyman turning and the ECW and WCW wrestlers joining forces. But of course, this turned out to be an excuse to make the enitre stroyline revolve around Steph, Vince, and Shane. I'm pretty sure that decision wasn't made by the writers.

The whole angle was a horible, horrible waste. But writers are lackeys. The attitude and direction of the angles which led to the WCW stars being made to look like total chumps and to destroy any hope of them getting a good reaction from the WWE fans came from much higher up.

This was an executive decision to dance on the grave of WCW.

[Rock Bottom]

Remember when everything came to a head. It was an Alliance Steve Austin who was the WWF Champion, leading his team against WWF Rock's (WCW Champion) team. That match was incredible. I thought a five on five would be horrible. But it was REALLY well done.

Anyway, I don't think the titles were pointless at that time. Because WCW taking WWF belts, and vice versa, was a good way to score a battle victory during a war, or at least a good way to portray it to fans. Fans got into that.

[The Naitch]

It would've been great to have a WCW champ only defend the WCW title against WWF guys. Or a WWF guy (The Rock) only defending the WCW title against WCW guys.

[The Naitch]

RB, I was waiting for a one on one Austin/Rock rematch at Survivor Series as well.

[The Naitch]

duh

[James Steele]

I thought they did a bit more than just dance on it,

i forgot about Booker T. and the Rock's program during the angle,

When did the Booker T. / Stone Cold Grocery Store segement happen and was it during the InVasion angle?


Plus... i don't think WCW/WWF angle could have been the same in 2001. Vince Russo lowered WCW so much that it would have never been what we had dreamed of.

[The CyNick]

The thing I didn't like about it was that it all seemed like WCW and WWE were getting along.

The whole Invasion thing started out alright, but they should have had WCW win the RAW timeslot away from WWE at the Invasion PPV. If they would have had a bunch of WCW guys come in like Goldberg, Flair, Sting, NWO, etc, they would have had a lot of momentum, and I'm sure people would have tuned in to see WCW on Monday nights.

Vince didn't want to do that and for some reason people didn't care about Booker T vs Buff bagweel, which is hard to understand, oh no wait, no its not.

[MVP]

Originally Posted by The CyNick The thing I didn't like about it was that it all seemed like WCW and WWE were getting along. The whole Invasion thing started out alright, but they should have had WCW win the RAW timeslot away from WWE at the Invasion PPV. If they would have had a bunch of WCW guys come in like Goldberg, Flair, Sting, NWO, etc, they would have had a lot of momentum, and I'm sure people would have tuned in to see WCW on Monday nights. Vince didn't want to do that and for some reason people didn't care about Booker T vs Buff bagweel, which is hard to understand, oh no wait, no its not.

An angle like that would've been a much better way of introducing Goldberg to WWE because there'd be a background storyline to his entrance instead of him just joining and feuding with The Rock. Many people are aware that Goldberg bad-mouthed WWE during his career in WCW, and all of that could've been justified if her entered WWE as part of the invasion, but instead Vince disregarded all that logic, and just brought Goldberg in later for ratings.

Along with bringing in Goldberg; Sting, Luger, Steiner, Jarret, DDP, Flair, and the nWo would've drew more ratings, and in the long run they could've put more superstars over such as Angle and Jericho. Also Austin could've remained a babyface and maybe put some of the younger WCW stars over such as Booker T and Buff Bagwell. After the invasion was over, the veteran WCW stars could've honorably stepped down (except for Flair) and the younger WCW guys would stay and get contracts.

The problem with that was Goldberg had a contract with AOL Time Warner, not WCW, so he was able to stay home and collect his salary while the invasion angle struggled to succeed.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by MVP An angle like that would've been a much better way of introducing Goldberg to WWE because there'd be a background storyline to his entrance instead of him just joining and feuding with The Rock. Many people are aware that Goldberg bad-mouthed WWE during his career in WCW, and all of that could've been justified if her entered WWE as part of the invasion, but instead Vince disregarded all that logic, and just brought Goldberg in later for ratings. Along with bringing in Goldberg; Sting, Luger, Steiner, Jarret, DDP, Flair, and the nWo would've drew more ratings, and in the long run they could've put more superstars over such as Angle and Jericho. Also Austin could've remained a babyface and maybe put some of the younger WCW stars over such as Booker T and Buff Bagwell. After the invasion was over, the veteran WCW stars could've honorably stepped down (except for Flair) and the younger WCW guys would stay and get contracts. The problem with that was Goldberg had a contract with AOL Time Warner, not WCW, so he was able to stay home and collect his salary while the invasion angle struggled to succeed.

Yeah but Vince could have bought out the deal. However he didn't want to upset the slary structure he had in place. His thinking was if I pay oldberg millions of dollars to work for WWE then I'll have problems with Austin, Rock, Taker, Hunter and so on.

However, while that did save the comapny money, it ended up killing an angle that could have been still making them money.

I mean with a solid WCW brand the brand extension would have worked better (because there would be an actual rivalry between the two brands) and also because they would have had a ton of new faces to have matches with their existing talent.

Its also funny because that Invasion PPV could have fixed their faux pas of turning Austin heel. If you watch that show you can see how hot the crowd was for Austin wrestling as a face again (for the WWE). Also Angle was over as a legit badass, which would have been great for business. All they needed to do was have Goldberg come in, Spear Austin and then maybe have Jericho do a WCW turn and win the match for WCW. That would have put Jericho in a top spot (he was the guy pinned Austin to give WCW RAW), Goldberg-Austin would have been planted in people's minds as the big dream feud. But instead they did what they did, and the angle did what it did.

[Gerard]

Only the wwe writers could manage to completly f*ck up a concept as simple as an invasion angle. Id say pretty much anyone on these forums could have had a far better overall overview of what needed to go down in order for it to work.

The nWo angle was as bad, nwo went on for a couple of years in wcw, in wwe it went for what, maybe 4-5 months? Even then the whole nWo thing in wwe was made to look just totally shit. Id actually expect them to ressurect the nwo in one form or another, as far as stables go it was one of the most popular in its wcw days, has to be a way of making a few more bucks out of that somehow.