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Old 12-12-2012, 03:05 PM   #1
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WWE should "stack RAW" with it's highest drawing wrestlers
WWE should "stack RAW" with it's highest drawing wrestlers

Here's what the WWE should do in my opinion.

1) Rank every single wrestler, top to bottom, based on how much they draw on average per viewership, quarterly segments, etc.

2) Put the first half of that list on RAW (I.e. the biggest draws), and the second half of that list on Smackdown.

What this achieves:

1) RAW is now a stacked show in terms of potential for interest, and now has an (outside) shot of bringing in new viewers and/or rekindling serious interest.

2) Smackdown is now forced to re-invent itself by taking currently existing characters, and making them interesting or changing their gimmick. This could be the place where see our "Terra Ryzing's" morph into our future HHH's.


-WWE goes back to its traditional roster split (I'd do it after Mania).
-every 18 months, a draft takes place just like it did a few years ago.
-RAW goes back to 2 hours. Smackdown remains a 2 hour show.
-John Cena turns heel at Wrestlemania.
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Old 12-12-2012, 03:47 PM   #2
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I'm all for the roster split coming back. It would force a little order into the mess they have going right now as far as booking and the identity of the titles.

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-RAW goes back to 2 hours. Smackdown remains a 2 hour show.
-John Cena turns heel at Wrestlemania.
You lost me here however...
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Old 12-12-2012, 03:53 PM   #3
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-RAW as a 3 hour show seems to be too long and drawn out (if the ratings are of any indication).

-John Cena going heel is pretty much the only thing in the WWE right now that could create enough shock to piqué some substantial interest.
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:04 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyman View Post
-RAW as a 3 hour show seems to be too long and drawn out (if the ratings are of any indication).

-John Cena going heel is pretty much the only thing in the WWE right now that could create enough shock to piqué some substantial interest.
Both of these issues can be solved by better booking and doing either of these things would basically be throwing money away.
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:29 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Both of these issues can be solved by better booking and doing either of these things would basically be throwing money away.
I can agree with the first part of your statement. Regarding the Cena heel turn however, I think it could be similar to Hogan/WCW/nWo.

If WCW could turn the biggest name in wrestling history into a heel (successfully), then I can't see why the WWE can't do that with Cena.

By turning Cena, it forces the WWE to push and create new "franchise faces."
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:43 PM   #6
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I have much less faith in WWE's bookers than WCW's in '96. They should create new franchise faces regardless. They're on their way with Ryback. If they turn Cena and he ends up as the same old generic pussy heel that they always do when someone turns heel, they'd be losing a shitload of money.
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:46 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
I have much less faith in WWE's bookers than WCW's in '96. They should create new franchise faces regardless. They're on their way with Ryback.
As long as Cena is face however, he'll always be the #1 good guy.

We saw what happened this past year with CM Punk (when Punk was face). Even as world champ, he took a definitive backseat to Cena. Ryback would most likely be in that same boat.
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:54 PM   #8
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Well they just weren't able to get Punk over to the same level as Cena. It came down to booking (and maybe the fact that Punk just isn't the type of guy who can be a "franchise player".) They need to get some guys to that level first and then they can think about a Cena turn.
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Old 12-12-2012, 05:10 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Well they just weren't able to get Punk over to the same level as Cena. It came down to booking (and maybe the fact that Punk just isn't the type of guy who can be a "franchise player".) They need to get some guys to that level first and then they can think about a Cena turn.
THANK YOU! This is why I've been against a Cena heel turn. You'd need to have a franchise level face. People already cheer Punk and boo Cena. All they'd be doing is losing merchandise money.
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Old 12-12-2012, 05:51 PM   #10
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THANK YOU! This is why I've been against a Cena heel turn. You'd need to have a franchise level face. People already cheer Punk and boo Cena. All they'd be doing is losing merchandise money.
Top Notch Heel Cena still sells merchandise.

HHH has never had an issue making money as a dominant Heel. Let Cena use that formula.
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Old 12-12-2012, 06:08 PM   #11
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Top Notch Heel Cena still sells merchandise.

HHH has never had an issue making money as a dominant Heel. Let Cena use that formula.
Kinda hard for Cena to pull off wearing "badass shirts" when he's been wearing rainbow inspirational poster shirts for the past 7 years.
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:15 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
Kinda hard for Cena to pull off wearing "badass shirts" when he's been wearing rainbow inspirational poster shirts for the past 7 years.
Again.

Hogan. WCW. 1996.

Hogan was a far bigger face and legend than Cena was, and like Cena, had been a face for numerous years.

If Hogan could make the turn, then so can Cena.
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:02 PM   #13
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Quote:
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Kinda hard for Cena to pull off wearing "badass shirts" when he's been wearing rainbow inspirational poster shirts for the past 7 years.
I dont even understand what the point of this is.
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Old 12-12-2012, 05:17 PM   #14
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If they turn him heel, he should return from a hiatus with the new "ATTITUDE". The hiatus would serve purpose to completely repackage him, complete with marketability for "heel cena" merch. It could have potential.

I see where both WWF and Heyman come from. Cena will always be #1 Face..... but while he is there, no one else can really be "that guy". You take a risk by turning him heel, which could allow for a new "face" to take said spot. The Hogan turn is slightly reminiscent of that, and on paper it could work.

Just thinking with the mixed reactions Cena gets, would people simply switch sides? The kids/moms booing him while tweeners cheer? I think ratings would soar with a Cena heel turn, but they would definitely need some planning to get it to stick.
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Old 12-12-2012, 05:19 PM   #15
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Kinda like Punk and his face push.....

His whole respect thing started when he laid out Rock. I get why it was done and I get the gimmick of the angle....... but he was cheered up until that point. He just had to turn his back on the fans and build on it. Now people love to hate him.

I think Cena, whether face or heel, will still be a "top guy".
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Old 12-12-2012, 05:24 PM   #16
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There's not much variation on who appears on RAW each week in the first place, all you'd really be doing is putting all the Superstars jobbers on Smackdown.
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Old 12-12-2012, 05:53 PM   #17
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Even if they did something like this, I highly doubt they'd officially enforce the brand split. At this point, the only reason it even exists is to run 2 different sets of house shows every weekend and fans have an idea of who they'll see competing. Putting all of the big names on one show could kill SmackDown house show attendance.

Looking at WWE.com, Raw's roster is still way more stacked than SmackDown's even before making any other changes:

Raw - Cena, Punk, Ryback, Team Hell No, The Shield, Miz, Kofi, Santino, R-Truth, Brodus
SD - Orton, Sheamus, Big Show, Del Rio, Rhodes Scholars, Christian, Cesaro, Prime Time Players
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Old 12-12-2012, 05:58 PM   #18
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The demographic was much different when HHH was a dominant heel. And even then, HHH also had top tier faces on the roster with him.
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Old 12-12-2012, 06:00 PM   #19
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Isn't Ryback on the Smackdown roster technically?
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Old 12-12-2012, 06:46 PM   #20
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Isn't Ryback on the Smackdown roster technically?
Nope, they switched him over to Raw.
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Old 12-12-2012, 06:48 PM   #21
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I guess there's really no way to tell who's where anymore without looking it up. I just remember he started on Smackdown and I don't remember any reference to him being "traded" to Raw or anything. This roster split really is horrible. lol
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:16 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
I guess there's really no way to tell who's where anymore without looking it up. I just remember he started on Smackdown and I don't remember any reference to him being "traded" to Raw or anything. This roster split really is horrible. lol
Yeah, Daniel Bryan was on the SmackDown roster for some time too and only got moved to the Raw roster recently. Ditto for Brodus Clay, who went from Raw to SmackDown (when he was "banned" from Raw), and is now listed as a part of Raw again.

They don't do a draft anymore because there's no reason to. I think they just update the roster page whenever there's a change to house show lineups.
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:21 PM   #23
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I don't think they will judge whether or not to keep Raw 3 hours until they see more ratings after Monday Night Football closes up shop.
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:03 AM   #24
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I don't think they will judge whether or not to keep Raw 3 hours until they see more ratings after Monday Night Football closes up shop.
I doubt that's changing a thing.
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:24 PM   #25
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And even if he did make money still, there's no way he makes more money for the company as a heel without some genius booking. For Hogan it was the NWO. Cena's heel turn would cause about a month of interest based on the shock and then you'd have to rely on these writers to keep him hot.
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:08 PM   #26
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Not to mention Heel Hogan helped get Luger over the hump as a mega face as well. He was inconsistent for years, but when he was chasing Hogan and beat him, it was the first time he was accepted as the man. Then they booked it all away and WCW went downhill.
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:18 PM   #27
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That half that cheers him also spends way more money on him than the half that boos him would if he turned heel.

Obviously that could change. Not impossible. But It would require some great booking and it would take time.

And again, it's not something you should do without a guy or two on that level who can replace the Cena merch that all the little kids get mommy and daddy to buy them...
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:27 PM   #28
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That half that cheers him also spends way more money on him than the half that boos him would if he turned heel.

Obviously that could change. Not impossible. But It would require some great booking and it would take time.

And again, it's not something you should do without a guy or two on that level who can replace the Cena merch that all the little kids get mommy and daddy to buy them...
Thjey can keep him face and make that money of of "Half the Audience" that dwindles every week, or they could turn him heel and potentially shift the trajectory of the company. The Allure of a Cena Heel turn isnt Merchandise sales, it is ratings and buyrates.
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:45 PM   #29
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The Allure of a Cena Heel turn isnt Merchandise sales, it is ratings and buyrates.
And that's why WWE would be stupid to go for it.

This might be a nice short-term boost, but they were losing fans before Cena and would have lost more anyway. They opted to turn to a different market and model for sustainability. The result? A sinking ship became a major multimedia franchise.

If you like wrestling being on TV, this is a good chunk of the reason. People blame Cena or Linda's political campaign, but should probably thank God that wrestling is even on the air right now, because this approach to business made it happen.

If you like the product at all, this approach probably saved it. If you don't like the current product, maybe it's time to move on. It's a show with kids as the primary market. Imagine if Pintint whined that My Little Pony didn't have enough attitude or whatever. He'd look like a moron for bitching about a children's show not catering to him.

And so does the wrestling fanbase.
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:50 PM   #30
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And that's why WWE would be stupid to go for it.

This might be a nice short-term boost, but they were losing fans before Cena and would have lost more anyway. They opted to turn to a different market and model for sustainability. The result? A sinking ship became a major multimedia franchise.

If you like wrestling being on TV, this is a good chunk of the reason. People blame Cena or Linda's political campaign, but should probably thank God that wrestling is even on the air right now, because this approach to business made it happen.

If you like the product at all, this approach probably saved it. If you don't like the current product, maybe it's time to move on. It's a show with kids as the primary market. Imagine if Pintint whined that My Little Pony didn't have enough attitude or whatever. He'd look like a moron for bitching about a children's show not catering to him.

And so does the wrestling fanbase.
Yes, because the WWE is solely made for Children. This analogy is completely illogical.

They took their product, and made it kid FRIENDLY, not completely marketed at children.

And this "sustainability" is really working well, with all time low ratings.
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:24 PM   #31
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Sting didn't actually wrestle for over a year and they made a shitload of money.
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:27 PM   #32
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The WWE doesnt make its nut at the Gimmick table.
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:39 PM   #33
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Quote:
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Wrestling is cyclical.
And this is the mentality that's had us "due for a boom" since 2002.

Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Yeah. Fuck writing ability. Turn heel, profit!
Hey, we're due for good writing any day now. Wrestling is cyclical, after all.

But seriously, easy answers. Wrestlers are not known for progressive thinking. "Turn him heel" is common because it's traditional logic. The Cena model is new and scary and must be destroyed.

Just like a 3 hour Raw (because it's not the wrestling, it's the time slot), Friday Night Smackdown, getting the "F" out, etc.

And dammit Attitude Era, giddawf mah lern!
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:43 PM   #34
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And this is the mentality that's had us "due for a boom" since 2002.



Hey, we're due for good writing any day now. Wrestling is cyclical, after all.

But seriously, easy answers. Wrestlers are not known for progressive thinking. "Turn him heel" is common because it's traditional logic. The Cena model is new and scary and must be destroyed.

Just like a 3 hour Raw (because it's not the wrestling, it's the time slot), Friday Night Smackdown, getting the "F" out, etc.

And dammit Attitude Era, giddawf mah lern!
Yeah, because their stubborn refusal to adapt and try something different isnt the real problem here.
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:46 PM   #35
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Yeah, because their stubborn refusal to adapt and try something different isnt the real problem here.
Your stubborn adherence to specific concepts (because ponies, I suspect), largely is at issue here.
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:49 PM   #36
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Your stubborn adherence to specific concepts (because ponies, I suspect), largely is at issue here.
Vintage 30 Year Old Faggot in his Moms Basement
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:48 PM   #37
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And guys,

Lets consider this:

-If Austin turned heel after 4 years (1997-2001), and if The Rock turned heel after 4 years (1999-2003), and if Hogan eventually turned heel (1980's-1996)............then don't you think that a guy like John Cena, who isn't anywhere near the face of the aforementioned, should turn heel at some point as well? (2004-2012).
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:51 PM   #38
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And guys,

Lets consider this:

-If Austin turned heel after 4 years (1997-2001), and if The Rock turned heel after 4 years (1999-2003), and if Hogan eventually turned heel (1980's-1996)............then don't you think that a guy like John Cena, who isn't anywhere near the face of the aforementioned, should turn heel at some point as well? (2004-2012).
Those heels turns werent successful or well thought out. They were easy solutions. No way they worked.

/Kane Knight-WWF Fan
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:55 PM   #39
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For those worried about Cena turning heel and potentially ailientaing the target demographic (kids) and/or losing merchandising revenue..........I get that. I understand that. However.....

1) Heels can also sell major mechandise....especially in this era. Pretty sure DX, Evolution, Legacy, Hollywood Rock, heel Austin, and the nWo version of Hogan had no problem selling massive merchandise (even comparable to the 'face' versions of themselves).

2) Again - Hogan.....when he turned heel. nWo merchandise. Hypothethetically, lets say Cena turned heel and became a "Heyman guy" or the new leader of The Shield. I'm pretty sure something like that would sell (both short term and long term).

3) it forces the WWE to create new franchise faces......and with Cena on the heel side, it becomes easier for the fans to embrace a new hero.....and new merch revenue from said new guy.
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Old 12-13-2012, 03:03 PM   #40
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Yeah but to become booed, Cena would need to do something like murder 8 children...
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