DISCUSSION - Should Triple and Randy Orton BOTH be World Champions? (other thoughts)

[Heyman]

DISCUSSION - Should Triple and Randy Orton BOTH be World Champions? (other thoughts)

Evolution on both Raw and Smackdown. Triple H = WWE Champion, Orton = World Champion


How's this idea for Evolution? Orton wins the title at Summerslam against Benoit. However - Triple H then challenges Undertaker (who defeats JBL at Summerslam) for his WWE title (he gets permission from McMahon or something). Triple H defeats Taker for the title.

-Evolution still stays in-tact. Triple H is the champ of Smackdown, while Orton is the champ of Raw. Because they are both a part of Evolution however, Evolution as a whole can appear on both shows. Triple H and Flair wrestle on Smackdown, while Orton and Batista wrestle on Raw. All 4 make TV appearances each time however.


My line of thinking:

1) Evolution's presence on Smackdown can help ratings and fan interest

2) TRiple H and Orton can both be world champions (the two biggest heels in the company). Also - with Orton and Triple H "temporarily" out of each other's way, it allows for others face on Raw to 'rise up' (as opposed to one of Triple H or Orton becoming top face and feuding with one another).

3) With a credible heel on Smackdown in Triple H, perhaps Guerrero and/or Cena can really gain more credibility as faces. Since Smackdown will be have the main-event slot for Wrestlemania this year, the face who goes over Triple H in the last match, will go over big time (like Cena for instance).


After Wrestlemania, where Triple H "drops the ball" so to speak, Evolution can break-up (since Triple H and Flair would now be a part of Smackdown). However - Orton and Triple H to get one match in after Mania (interpromotional) where Orton goes over.


The way I see it, Guerrero and Cena are the two biggest faces in the company. If they can somehow go 'over' Triple H at Wrestlemania, it will be HUGE. While a guy like Kurt Angle is also on Smackdown, I think a win over Triple H would mean more in terms of credibility. Angle, in the past, has alraedy jobbed to the likes of Lesnar, Guerrero, Big Show, Edge, etc. A win over Angle would still be big for a guy like Cena or Guerrero, but a win over Triple H would be much bigger IMO.


Another thing - For the 1st few months of Orton and Triple H both being champ, things work out great (i.e. Orton beating opponents on Raw, while Triple H beating opponents on Smackdown). Around the time of Royal Rumble however, Orton starts to get cockier. HE starts trying to call the shots at times. Leading up to Wrestlemania, there is some tension between Orton and Triple H.

After Wrestlemania - this is where the whole Orton/Triple H feud can really start. Orton defeats (Edge?) in the Raw main-event, while John Cena defeats Triple H in the Smackdown main-event. This is where Orton gets cocky and tries to kick Triple H out of Evolution. This is where the Triple H/Orton feud can start.

Other thoughts


-Is there any chance that the WWE could get Tito Ortiz to come to the WWE? He's #1 in the UFC and he made Ken Shamrock his bitch! Also - if I understand correctly, he'd make more money in the WWE. The marketing potential would also be there. Smackdown could really use a guy like that.


-I'm still not liking the Heindrich gimmick (too much proximity to Brock Lesnar in terms of a 'big man dominating'). Why can't they just use Paul Heyman to "motivate" RVD? Heel, ECW, RVD with the Pantera music would be awesome. Guerrero/RVD would be pretty cool.


-I still think if the WWE are going to go with a Triple H/Orton feud within the next few months, HHH needs to be the face.



-In my last thread, I mentioned as to how it would be interesting to see Christian help out either Jericho or Edge if they fought each other at Summerslam (and in effect, one of those guys would turn heel). This would then set-up a serious of feuds involving Benoit, Jericho, Christian, and Edge.

How would this sound instead?

At Summerslam, Jericho and Edge have a face vs. face match (stemming from the fact that Jericho turned on Edge during the Battle Royale last week). At the end of the match (which Edge unfortunately wins), the two men shake hands.

After Summerslam (once Benoit has dropped the title)..........Benoit becomes desperate to win it back......but without success. This eventually leads to major anger and frustration. Benoit turns heel....and goes back to the way he was in 2000 in terms of character.

Ultimately - this leads to Benoit feuding with Edge and Jericho. Christian also gets involved.

For a long period of time, Christian feuds again with Jericho...while Benoit feuds with Edge. After that, Christian feuds with Edge, while Benoit feuds with Jericho.......both of these matches of which, lead to Wrestlemania.

It has potential, but WWE would fuck it up.

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by Funky Fly It has potential, but WWE would fuck it up.

True - if the WWE's past history is of any indication, then Evolution might be booked to completely DOMINATE Smackdown (since they already dominate Raw, while Smackdown is seen as the inferior show).


I normally wouldn't be a proponent of this idea, but consider the following.


1) Smackdown severely lacks in star power right now.

2) The only two people who could genuinely put someone 'over' right now through a clean JOB right now, are Triple H and Undertaker. I would argue that going 'over' Angle doesn't mean as much anymore (since Angle has already jobbed to the likes of Guerrero, Edge, etc. in the past).

3) Since Guerrero and Cena are arguably the two most popular faces in the company, it makes sense for them to go 'over' the biggest heel...at the biggest stage of all.

[The CyNick]

But Triple H isn't really worth anything more than anyone else on the roster.

The last 2 PPVs were headlined by HHH vs Benoit and Guerrero vs JBL, the show with JBL and Eddie drew a better number.

Also, HHH has put over Benoit many times, including the "bgiggest show of all time" and I dont think anyone would argue Benoit is the biggest star in the company.

So doing some wierd angle that will make the brand extension look worthless just to get HHH to do a JOB for Cena or Eddie is really rather pointless. Eddie's already on the same level on PPV in terms of drawing power and Cena has yet to be put in that position, but I'm sure when he is he'll do fine.

The other problem is Eugene, the program with HHH and Eugene cant end at Summerslam it has to go for at least 3 months to keep HHH busy and to justify all the TV time they've given those guys. So what do you do? Move Eugene to SD as well?

And I cant tell you how much I hate the idea of only certain guys being able to work on both shows, it makes no sense.

I agree with you about Hunter being a face, (even though I dont think he makes a particularly great babyface) given the movie commitments and Orton winning the title at Summerslam, I think HHH has to be the face going into Mania. If Orton was the one doing the chasing then I woudl switch it, but since they seem to be going with Orton as champ at SS, Hunter has to turn.

Benoit as a heel? I dont like it. I dont see him getting over as a silent ass kicking heel. For one, they wont book him strong enough, and second that gimmick rarely works in the WWE. I really hope he winds up back on SD at some point in the near future.

As for Ortiz, he still has a couple of fights left on his deal with UFC, and if memory serves me, he's guarnteed $250,000 per fight. He wont make nearly that much in the WWE, unless he takes off as a main eventer.

I know he's friends with Mysterio, and I think he'll get a deal if he wants it, and being friends with Mysterio would probably put him on SD. But HHH could always decide he wants to beat a "real fighter" and Ortiz would go to RAW. Personally I'd put him on SD (thats assuming he's any good in the ring and actually wants to come in).

[Innovator]

Originally Posted by Heyman -I'm still not liking the Heindrich gimmick (too much proximity to Brock Lesnar in terms of a 'big man dominating'). Why can't they just use Paul Heyman to "motivate" RVD? Heel, ECW, RVD with the Pantera music would be awesome. Guerrero/RVD would be pretty cool.

I've accepted the fact that RVD will continue to be overlooked by WWE management until the Judgment Day, but I hope to God to see Heyman interact with *gets thumbs ready* R! V! D!

[The CyNick]

I was big on turning RVD so he could program with Eddie, but as it turns out the WWE did the right thing. They created a new star in Bradshaw, and he hasn't hurt business by any means. And at the same time, they still have RVD as a credible mid card babyface that the fans love. No, he will never go beyond that level, but he's still an important piece because he makes the roster seem deeper.

[The Tool]

I would think it would be a bigger boost to Cena's career if a champion Undertaker jobbed to Cena for the belt at say Wrestlemania, than HHH.

[Kane Knight]

I woulda thought Heyman would be all over "big man domination."



Anywyas, I don't much like the idea.

Nah, keep Trips on Raw. I'd rather they did a big storyline on the Evolution split anyways, which is probably going to happen real soon as Orton is expected to win at Summerslam.

Smackdown is starting to get better again anyway. You got Taker who's still garnering an audience and he will probably win the Belt again. Angle and Show are coming back. Guerrero and Cena are awesome. And JBL is great too. When he goes back to being a mid carder, that division will look pretty strong. I heard the WWE wasn't very high on Dupree and Jindrack anymore like they were, but Dupree has potential. I think he should win the U.S. Title soon.

Oh and about Edge. I read Edge might turn heel and cost Benoit the Title at Summerslam. If that's so, then you can expect a Benoit/Edge feud for the I.C. Title. Jericho would probably be in the mix as well. Even if Edge doesn't turn on Benoit, I think he will turn heel real soon and then we will probably see an E &C reunion.

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight I woulda thought Heyman would be all over "big man domination."

p.s. PREDICTION - Eugene defeats Triple H at Summerslam, only to return the favor the next night. Benoit defeats Orton. Next Raw PPV - triple threat match.....Orton, Triple H, and Chris Benoit. Flair and Batista help Orton win the title..............

[Volchok]

or maybe Jericho could get pushed into the Main Event scene instead of being in the Benot/Edge fued... but Trips is still there so scratch that...

[Mr. Nerfect]

Alright, I know this idea is not going to be popular, but I'd like to see the following happen. After Summerslam (Orton wins, Bradshaw wins) Vince talks about another "revolution" for the WWE, and for the first time ever, give RAW a complete re-draft. Major changes to the WWE include Eddie, Heyman, Cena and the Cruiserweight Division to RAW, and Orton, Triple H, Jericho, the Women's Divison & Michaels to SmackDown!. Basically Orton gets stripped of the World Heavyweight Title, and Jericho wins the WWE Title at No Mercy. Randy Orton and Triple H try to remake Evolution, but fail miserably leading to a feud between them leading into WrestleMania. Then on RAW, Benoit adopts Heyman as his manager as he realises he has a weakness. He becomes a heel, and feuds with Eddie Guerrero (who is the new World Heavyweight Champion), while Batista and Kane have a monster feud (the new fire as Hardy, Michaels and Lita are moved to SmackDown!). Batista adopts Flair as his manager, and Kane brings in Synn.

Yeah, so anyway...

[James Steele]

That sounds good except for Lita going to SmackDown!. I'm am worried she might get lost and end up on TNA Impact!

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by JamesSteele That sounds good except for Lita going to SmackDown!. I'm am worried she might get lost and end up on TNA Impact!

credit: www.beatingthejoketodeath.com -- News: Lita botches show transfer.

[James Steele]

www.howelseamisupposedtogetoverdamnit.org

HUGE ANNOUNCEMENT: TPWW Icon Ripping Off Other Superstars?


****Trish Stratus/Vince McMahon Job Interview**** CLICK HERE FOR THE HOT ACTION!!!!!!

[Heyman]

BUMP!

[Heyman]

Based on how great this original post was (i.e. a 5 star quality masterpiece), I think I'd be deserving of the title of "greatest tpww poster of all-time"..........but I feel that this would be too modest. I'm the greatest poster on the friggin internet! onlykidding.


In all seriousness though, I think the only RETARDED thing that I said (at the time), was about Benoit turning heel.

I don't know about you guys, but I've REALLY love Benoit's face run as of late.

I've loved Benoit as a face since he became a "lockerroom leader" type person (shortly before "Taboo Tuesday" if I'm not mistaken).


Personally if it was up to me? I'd have BENOIT (not Orton, Benjamin, or even Jericho) defeat Triple H at Wrestlemania 21 (one on one) to win the world title (I'll elaborate on this on a later post).

[Mr. JL]

I missed this before but I really liked the idea of Orton as the World Title Champ and Triple H as WWE Champ with Evolution dominating. It is too bad it didn't turn out that way because it would have been alot more interesting than what has happened.


...

3 months later and RVD is still no further at making the top... if anything he's slunk down further. I'm making a prediction, if RVD does NOT reunite with Heyman than he'll never be anyhing more than he is right now and will be gone from the WWE next year. It's the only thing that can save his WWE career at this point.

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by Mr. JL 3 months later and RVD is still no further at making the top... if anything he's slunk down further. I'm making a prediction, if RVD does NOT reunite with Heyman than he'll never be anyhing more than he is right now and will be gone from the WWE next year. It's the only thing that can save his WWE career at this point.

Hmmmmm....

I thought about this scenerio as well, but I no longer feel that the fans would REALLY want to 'boo' RVD. His unique offense will always elicit face pops.


Here's what I WOULDN"T mind seeing though:

RVD and Mysterio continue their little "happy and gay" ways in the tag team division, but one day lose. No biggie.

The next night, RVD loses a singles match to Renee Dupree via roll-up.

After the match, TAZZ gets in the ring and grabs a mic.


He talks to RVD...........and asks him if he still has a passion for this business?.....and if he still wants to be the best.


Tazz then starts reminding RVD of how great he once was.........because he had passion.

Tazz then talks about how RVD is great, but he's letting his supernatural talent go to waste.



Basically - Tazz becomes RVD's "motivating factor". Tazz starts reminding the fans of how great RVD was. He shows them old ECW footage, etc.

After a few weeks of "deep contemplation" (i.e. if he still "wants it") and all the crap on RVD's part, RVD goes back to his winning ways.


RVD goes back to the ol' Pantera music, starts using the Van Daminator, etc.

And voila - RVD has credibility again.

[The CyNick]

Heyman, I still think your idea is bad.

I do like Benoit as a face, I just wish they would have kept rolling with him as the top face. Now he's just another mid carder, which is sad for soemone of his talent. And I'm almost 100% posiitve HHH will be facing Orotn at Mania.

Speaking of which, and this sorta goes back to your original idea, I wouldn't mind seeing Orton go over to SD just as a way to get the WWE title. Since Orton cant get a World Title shot, he could be left out of the Rumble. But then Long announces on SD after the Rumble that he has signed a major free agent to face JBL at No Way Out.

The next week out comes Orton. Orton and JBL build up a quick fued in Feb, and Orton wins the WWE title.

Meanwhile, HHH sees all this on RAW, and is pissed, because Orton has a title. Orton makes a challenge from SD to HHH on RAW, and says he wants to unify the World Titles, to really prove once and for all who is the best in the WWE. Since HHH is a gloryhound, he would agree to face Orton in order to get the WWE title.

They go through a couple of weeks of trying to determine if the match can go down (need a Board of Directors ruling), or course they agree and at mania Orotn wins and unifies the titles. He can now appear on both shows as the champ.

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by The CyNick I wouldn't mind seeing Orton go over to SD just as a way to get the WWE title. Since Orton cant get a World Title shot, he could be left out of the Rumble. But then Long announces on SD after the Rumble that he has signed a major free agent to face JBL at No Way Out. The next week out comes Orton. Orton and JBL build up a quick fued in Feb, and Orton wins the WWE title. Meanwhile, HHH sees all this on RAW, and is pissed, because Orton has a title. Orton makes a challenge from SD to HHH on RAW, and says he wants to unify the World Titles, to really prove once and for all who is the best in the WWE. Since HHH is a gloryhound, he would agree to face Orton in order to get the WWE title. They go through a couple of weeks of trying to determine if the match can go down (need a Board of Directors ruling), or course they agree and at mania Orotn wins and unifies the titles. He can now appear on both shows as the champ.

That would be a pretty cool scenerio.

Even if Orton and Triple H *DIDN"T* unify the titles, it would still be great for Smackdown to get a guy like Orton.

THIS is where John Cena can then begin his heel turn (i.e. jealousy of Orton).

The more I think about the idea of that, the more I like it.

With Orton gone from RAW, Benjamin and Benoit also look more prominent (not to mention, the WWE could always re-elevate Jericho).


All in all, it gives Smackdown their "much needed" main-event superstar (that can potentially create other main-event superstars).

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Heyman That would be a pretty cool scenerio. Even if Orton and Triple H *DIDN"T* unify the titles, it would still be great for Smackdown to get a guy like Orton. THIS is where John Cena can then begin his heel turn (i.e. jealousy of Orton). The more I think about the idea of that, the more I like it. With Orton gone from RAW, Benjamin and Benoit also look more prominent (not to mention, the WWE could always re-elevate Jericho). All in all, it gives Smackdown their "much needed" main-event superstar (that can potentially create other main-event superstars).

Oh I wouldn't do it unless they were unifying the titles. They've spent too muich time building stuff up with Orton on RAW for him to all of sudden jump ship to a program where he has no issues.

The Cena heel turn would be a bad idea. The fans like him, if anything they should be bending over backwards to make him the WWE Champ (assuming they didn't go through with my unification idea).

With Cena and Orton, I'd like to just see them kind of try to one up each other. Orton would brag about being World Champ, Cena would hint that maybe one day he'd be coming for a title shot. But it would be done in a "friendly" type of way.

If anyone was going to turn, I would say it should definately be Orton. I could see a scenario where Orton became the Undisputed champ at Mania 21, he's on SD teases Cena a bit, then the next year at Mania (Mania 22), Cena becomes Undisputed Champ (say Orton loses it to some heel.....HHH, and then Cena wins it from him). So the next year Cena returns the favour by rubbing in to Orotn that he's the Undisputed Champ. This gets Orton to turn on Cena, and take the title from him (say Summerslam 06) and then Cena would chase him to Mania 23. Hey I just booked the next 2 years for WWE.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't know why, but I can picture a match signe dat Armageddon with Rob Van Dam & Rey Mysterio taking on Rene Dupree & Kenzo Suzuki. This is saved only for the PPV because Theodore R. Long can smell a title change coming, and so can we. Would anyone in their right mind expect Dupree & Suzuki to retain against a face tag team they've been pushing in that direction for ages that has yet to capture the championships despite being two of the most popular guys on the roster?

Anyway, during the match we see RVD suddenly hit a Five Star Frog Spalsh on Mysterio allowing Dupree to pin for three! We then see RVD assault Rey Mysterio and put him on the shelf with the help of the returning Dudley Boyz (keep them under that name). A 3D off the stage may even be in order. Anyway, we then see RVD, Heidenreich, Bubba Ray, D-Von, Spike (who loses the Cruiserweight Championship ot Nunzio at the PPV), Nunzio (who beat Spike for the title before the actual ECW Reunion), Paul Heyman & Tazz who claim to be an extreme revolution. This carries onto Nunzio losing the CW Title to Asai/Ultimo Dragon at the Royal Rumble, and Rey Mysterio faing RVD in an ECW Rules Match at No Way Out.

Anyway, as far as unifying the belts goes, I'm all for it. I wouldn't mind it being an unofficial unification, though. I mean like Orton holding botht he World Heavyweight Championship and the WWE Championship, but he only defends one title at a time. So no "Undisputed Champion", just Randy Orton as both champions until someone defeats him for one title on a brand, and that title being contested only on the brand he lost it on, and the other remainig exclusive to the other brand (with Randy Orton).