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Old 05-04-2005, 12:39 AM   #1
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Rhetorical question: Why is Shelton Benjamin impressing?
He's actually being innovative in his offense and doing NEW MOVES!!! New moves?! You mean he's not being relegated to the same forearm/suplex/headlock/own finisher routine?! You mean he's being allowed to WRESTLE/! You mean they're letting him exercise his full capabilities?!

WOW!!!!

So what you're saying is that when you allow a wrestler to display his skills and vary his moveset, modifying new moves every once in a while, it gets him OVER??? It makes people want to watch more matches??? It makes wrestling INTERESTING???




Then why the fuck are they keeping every other fucking wrestler on the roster locked in the same four moves every match????

Food for thought.
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Old 05-04-2005, 12:41 AM   #2
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they are testing the waters. if it works for him then they may dare venture it out with other wrestlers.

ohhhhh let's hope this works.
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Old 05-04-2005, 12:51 AM   #3
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I dunno, I'm starting to think that maybe some of the other wrestlers don't really wanna put the strain on themselves and take some of the risks of the more implressive moves. Granted I miss them but maybe it isn't really the company limiting them.
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Old 05-04-2005, 12:55 AM   #4
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It's a revalation the WWE needs.
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Old 05-04-2005, 12:56 AM   #5
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No, I'm pretty sure it's the company limiting them.

RVD is a PRIME example. Look at his matches early on in the InVasion angle: he was doing incredible spots having incredible matches with everyone from Chris Jericho to Kurt Angle to Steve Austin. For the past year or so he's been extremely toned down to the 5 Star, rolling thunder, and occasionally a split-legged moonsault.

There are plently more examples, and it all goes back to a couple years ago when Vince told all the guys to tone down their styles in the ring as to try and deter more injuries. Unfortunately, he ignored the fact that individual styles are what make matches interesting.
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Old 05-04-2005, 01:09 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
No, I'm pretty sure it's the company limiting them.

RVD is a PRIME example. Look at his matches early on in the InVasion angle: he was doing incredible spots having incredible matches with everyone from Chris Jericho to Kurt Angle to Steve Austin. For the past year or so he's been extremely toned down to the 5 Star, rolling thunder, and occasionally a split-legged moonsault.

There are plently more examples, and it all goes back to a couple years ago when Vince told all the guys to tone down their styles in the ring as to try and deter more injuries. Unfortunately, he ignored the fact that individual styles are what make matches interesting.
I think to an extent he's right. Some wrestlers don't want to push themselves. Much like Calloway didn't want to act anymore, and got a persona that let him play himself more or less.

To a larger extent, I think it's the company as you say. Someone on here put up a circus analogy. You put your best act last. Except in a circus, you don't make someone the best by making the other acts tone it down.

I mean, most of the Cruisers are boring. I hate to say it, but even Rey isn't what he used to be.
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Old 05-04-2005, 01:04 AM   #7
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I miss the old days of RVD...Mr. PPV RVD was the best.
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Old 05-04-2005, 01:06 AM   #8
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they also had to tone it down so that they don't oushine the main eventers... the HHH's and Takers

thus the Cruiserweight division loolks the way it does
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Old 05-04-2005, 01:07 AM   #9
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I miss the Whole Fucking Show
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Old 05-04-2005, 01:37 AM   #10
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I really do think its the bookers toning down the midcarders and allowing them to only to a certain set of moves. Even Benoit has been cut off at the kneest; if he's on Raw, he's only doing the same 2 or 3 moves. They may justify it by saying thats its for safety's sake or that the continual use of high spots wears out or spoils the crowds. There's some truth in both cases.

But what it comes down to is that wrestlers for the past couple years have been purposely told to hold back. And hopefully Shelton is a sign of things turning in the other direction.
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Old 05-04-2005, 05:28 AM   #11
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I think that a reverse wheelbarrow suplex would make a great move for Shelton to use.

Anyway, Benjamin's recent work has been top notch, so here's hopnig they let more guys do more stuff in the ring. Val Venis is a prime example. The guy has talents, but they won't let ihm use them to the best of his ability. Venis & Edge really could have had a four star match on RAW on England, but saldy they didn't get the chance.

I persoally think matches have become too cliched in recent years, and I don't mean to make this sound like I'm being too negative, but more matches where two guys go neck-and-neck, or a match where the face dominates could really go a long way for making the product better.
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Old 05-05-2005, 02:45 AM   #12
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The cliched match is spot on. I think a few people have posted about how basically these days, every tag match consists of:

- early face offense
- heels turn the tables
- heels isolate one guy and beat him up
- desperation tag after some desperation move
- fresh face cleans house
- insert finish

It's pretty sad that the formula is the same almost all the time. And the moves are the same... I'm not asking for X-Division style innovation, but geez, at least mix up your stuff sometimes.

It makes no sense to hold back wrestlers who are talented enough to incredible moves. And it's not always spots... look at WCW Cruiserweight wrestling, where everything flowed and they spun awesome stories... they can do that here and still be safe.

The only explanation is to prevent the Cruisers from upstaging the main eventers.

And that's just plain bullshit.
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Old 05-05-2005, 03:33 AM   #13
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I almost wet myself when Shelton took that Superkick
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Old 05-05-2005, 05:23 AM   #14
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I wonder how good Charlie Haas would be if they let him do his stuff. Seriously, just have him answer Kurt Angle's Invitiational one night, and have him go a solid 20 minutes with Kurt and see how awesome it is. Then have Charlie Haas win just to create a new star.
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Old 05-05-2005, 05:31 AM   #15
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^^That would be a good idea to get Charlie Haas back, Alienoid. I'm also a fan of his and can't understand why during all this time he still has yet to have a feud, ever since the brand split that is. We've seen how good Shelton is, and I think Charlie Haas is almost as good as Shelton,if not just as.

I can't really judge whether or not he is though because he never gets a fucking chance, i don't get why he's even on the roster if they're not using him at all.

Also, totally agree on Tag team matches comment, but that's what you get when you just put two random guys together constantly and call them 'tag teams'.
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Old 05-05-2005, 10:17 AM   #16
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Angles' Invitiational is set at a 3 minute time limit... sorry to bust that idea
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Old 05-05-2005, 04:17 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Angles' Invitiational is set at a 3 minute time limit... sorry to bust that idea
Then that's even better. Have Haas beat Angle shockingly in the 3 minute time limit and win the gold medals, then they can have a proper match at the PPV, and continue the feud from there. I wonder why the WWE can't think of something like that.
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Old 05-05-2005, 10:40 AM   #18
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In reading the first post, it helped me realize why wrestling fans are so gay.

NO OFFENCE THOUGH
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Old 05-06-2005, 02:41 AM   #19
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In reading the first post, it helped me realize why wrestling fans are so gay.

NO OFFENCE THOUGH
I'm so sorry you can't understand sarcastic tone used for dramatic effect.
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Old 05-05-2005, 02:30 PM   #20
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Another reason Benjamin is getting over is his basic skills. Even his arm drags are impressive. His basic wrestling is fun to watch and he doesn't do spots for a pop that get old for most people the 3rd or 4th time around.
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Old 05-05-2005, 03:39 PM   #21
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Is this a praise Benjamin thread or hate?

Benjamin is impressing because of his ahtletic ability. He has really been impressive over the last couple months. And all the other reasons.
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Old 05-05-2005, 04:14 PM   #22
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It's a praise Benjamin/ Criticise the WWE's booking of other wrestlers thread i think.
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Old 05-05-2005, 05:29 PM   #23
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I don't think Benjamin is all the impressive. WEll, he just seems devoid of charisma. So there.
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Old 05-05-2005, 05:37 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool
I don't think Benjamin is all the impressive. WEll, he just seems devoid of charisma. So there.
I think he has charisma, he just hasn't found his niche yet. I don't know, he just sometimes looks uncomfortable on the mic. I think he could be a real breakout.
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Old 05-05-2005, 05:43 PM   #25
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I don't know what the fuck the WWE has been smoking lately... but whatever it is, they should continue smoking it.

They have booked Shelton Benjamin pretty good, IMO. He's been the I.C. champion since October and that is a pretty long title reign for WWE standards. I think that has also helped him get over with the crowd. And he certainly does know how to make his SPOTS stand out very, very, very well. He has the in-ring tools to be the BIG champion. Just needs more work on the mic.

Now, if only they would push Charlie Haas.
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Old 05-05-2005, 06:03 PM   #26
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The issue about the work in the ring is a double edged sword. If the WWE opens the flood gates, there will be more injuries, thats a given. So as a fan, you'll get better matches, but guys will be going down left, right and centre.

Of course the problem with the limitations is that it discourages innovation and you get the same recyled match by every guy up and down the card. As a fan, that gets boring real quick.

Shelton himself is a great talent, I do think they need to turn him heel. I dont think he's connecting as a babyface, especially when he's put in the ring with other faces (ie Jeirhco, Benoit, HBK).

In terms of booking, I dont think they've done such a hot job with him. Yes, he has been IC champ since October, but really that belt hasn't meant a damn thing since he won it. I think he'd actually be better off without the title, and just build up that he's on the cusp of the main event and is trying to break through. With the payoff being a World Title win at some point in the not too distant future.

But if you look at the title itself, its hardly ever defended. Most of the biggest matches he's had this year have been in matches which A) he lost and B) were not for the IC title. That makes the title seem kinda meaningless and would be better off on someone else who would defend it on a regular basis.
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Old 05-06-2005, 07:48 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick
The issue about the work in the ring is a double edged sword. If the WWE opens the flood gates, there will be more injuries, thats a given. So as a fan, you'll get better matches, but guys will be going down left, right and centre.

Of course the problem with the limitations is that it discourages innovation and you get the same recyled match by every guy up and down the card. As a fan, that gets boring real quick.
Which is why I say don't run a 'wrestling show unless your prepared to take the risks'. Which way has got them better ratings? Good matches/lots of injuries or poor matches/no injuries? I don't think it's that tough a decision. I blame the brand split partly for all this, because they've had to cut down the rosters for each show, so they can't afford to take the risks they once could, which brings up another reason to be against the brand split.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick
Shelton himself is a great talent, I do think they need to turn him heel. I dont think he's connecting as a babyface, especially when he's put in the ring with other faces (ie Jeirhco, Benoit, HBK).
I agree on this. Have him feud with HBK so they can have a return match. I can definately see a re-match between the two, showing that Shelton has gained experience, and he goes over HBK through a victory this time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick
In terms of booking, I dont think they've done such a hot job with him. Yes, he has been IC champ since October, but really that belt hasn't meant a damn thing since he won it. I think he'd actually be better off without the title, and just build up that he's on the cusp of the main event and is trying to break through. With the payoff being a World Title win at some point in the not too distant future.

But if you look at the title itself, its hardly ever defended. Most of the biggest matches he's had this year have been in matches which A) he lost and B) were not for the IC title. That makes the title seem kinda meaningless and would be better off on someone else who would defend it on a regular basis.
I agree that he hasn't been booked well enough, i said that before. And that's probably why he gets no reaction from the crowd.Sure he's gone over HHH a few times, but then he had to lose once to HHH didn't he? I don't agree with the title being meaningless though.the fact that he's had it for so long looks good on paper,especially considering Orton held it for so long before. But he should still defend it alot more than he does.
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Old 05-06-2005, 02:54 PM   #28
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Well, Shelton was a fighting champ when he first won it. He defended the belt all the time. But then they dropped that whole thing, which IMO is a shame.
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Old 05-06-2005, 04:41 PM   #29
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Who here's seen PCU?

"It's like if you're nice to them, they bring you stuff?"

*shelton puts on an awesoem match*

Fan: Dude! You guys gotta watch this!

*Ratings increase*

Vince: It's like, if you entertain them, they watch and stuff?"
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Old 05-08-2005, 02:19 AM   #30
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Can someone say that Haas as around the same agility and speed as Benjamin? I think I remember J.R.'s ass saying that Shelton was the fastest track star in his conference. I'm for putting on great matches and all, but we gotta think of the people putting ON the matches. Sometimes I ask myself why they dont just let them loose and wrestle their asses off? These guys work 3-4 times a week and we all know the pain their bodies have to endure. Who watched RVD's DVD when he said he toned down because there's a tougher schedule? I'm not buying all of it, but I'd rather see an EXCELLENT match every week or two on free TV and have the excellent matches on PPV.
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Old 05-08-2005, 07:00 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VicJericho
Can someone say that Haas as around the same agility and speed as Benjamin? I think I remember J.R.'s ass saying that Shelton was the fastest track star in his conference.
We can't say anything right now because he never gets the chance to prove himself does he?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VicJericho
I'm for putting on great matches and all, but we gotta think of the people putting ON the matches. Sometimes I ask myself why they dont just let them loose and wrestle their asses off? These guys work 3-4 times a week and we all know the pain their bodies have to endure. Who watched RVD's DVD when he said he toned down because there's a tougher schedule? I'm not buying all of it, but I'd rather see an EXCELLENT match every week or two on free TV and have the excellent matches on PPV.
That's what i think they should do, have either one or two good matches on Raw& SD that get people talking, and have the best matches on PPV. BUT we weren't even getting good matches on PPV's were we? Until recently.So that excuse is aload of shit to be honest.

I have actually thought about buying Judgement day, but don't have the money to waste right now, i hate Sky Box Office.
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Old 05-08-2005, 02:33 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by ThugLife
We can't say anything right now because he never gets the chance to prove himself does he?

I guess he doesnt, it'd be sad to see Haas become a part of the Marty Jannetty effect. I hope the draft helps Haas somehow.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ThugLife
That's what i think they should do, have either one or two good matches on Raw& SD that get people talking, and have the best matches on PPV. BUT we weren't even getting good matches on PPV's were we? Until recently.So that excuse is aload of shit to be honest.

I have actually thought about buying Judgement day, but don't have the money to waste right now, i hate Sky Box Office.
Who knows? Maybe Vince woke up and realized putting on good matches is a good thing? I might get Judgement Day only if Carlito is wrestling or if theres some "cant miss" match
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Old 05-08-2005, 11:04 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VicJericho
Can someone say that Haas as around the same agility and speed as Benjamin? I think I remember J.R.'s ass saying that Shelton was the fastest track star in his conference.
Because JR always tells the truth, and we've really seen a lot of instances where Haas is allowed to bust loose.
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Old 05-08-2005, 12:17 PM   #34
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i don't know why I thought of this, but did Viscira sound like Shelton benjamin when he was talking on raw, coz he did to me
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Old 05-08-2005, 02:40 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Because JR always tells the truth, and we've really seen a lot of instances where Haas is allowed to bust loose.
I have a bad memory (seriously) I havent seen Haas on Smackdown in a while, maybe he has been let loose and I just dont remember. I think thats the whole point, Haas has to be put in a situation to put on a memorable match against someone like Kurt Angle. Until then, people wont know Haas' capabilities
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Old 05-08-2005, 06:17 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VicJericho
I have a bad memory (seriously) I havent seen Haas on Smackdown in a while, maybe he has been let loose and I just dont remember. I think thats the whole point, Haas has to be put in a situation to put on a memorable match against someone like Kurt Angle. Until then, people wont know Haas' capabilities
More importantly, he has to be put in situations where he does something spectacular and memorable in a singles format. The last I saw of Haas Haas Baby, he was still tagging with Bobcore on Velocity. Now, I don't know about you, but that doesn't sing "Time to shine" to me. When he was with Rico, he had SOME moments. Not enough to put him over as the next champ, but enough to establish him as a solid midcarder.
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Old 05-08-2005, 01:21 PM   #37
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I dunno. I zoned him out.
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Old 05-10-2005, 09:21 PM   #38
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Benjamin is impressive because of talent. He's the best in-ring worker on RAW now[even though Benoit is on RAW, he sticks to the same moveset and doesn't do many unexpected, jaw-dropping spots like Shelton].

Benjamin is the future. If he goes to Smackdown and feuds with Haas for the IC belt, that would rock. Everytime they do a program with former tag partners, it usually turns out good.

Anyway, we will see Benjamin in the main events soon. I just hope it's more sooner than later....
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Old 05-10-2005, 09:21 PM   #39
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There's no IC belt on SmackDown! fool.
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