Over the last week or so...

[The One]

I have grown to enjoy John Cena. I have never been a fan of him, didn't like Prototype, WWE debut John Cena, him taging with B-B, his rapping, or anything of the past year...but I must admit, the past few weeks I have grown to REALLY enjoy him every time I see him. I think it's becuase of one thing, he is addressing the fact that he is supposed to be a babyface, yet more then half the crowd is booing him out of the building. It reminds me of the transition between Rocky Miavia and The Rock. Here is someone who we are told to love, we grow to hate, and he is getting to the point (and maybe one day might actually) to say "I don't give a fuck if you hate me" and I love it. His promos latly have been some of the best promos over the past few years. He isn't trying to rap (which I HATED when he used to do it) instead he is being himself with the volume turned way up. And isn't that EXACTLY what everyone has always said is the best answer. Now in the ring, he is sloppy as hell, but then again The Rock (sorry I keep using him as an example) was never a technical great either, but he was one of the all time best in the industry. On one hand I hope fans continue to boo the shit out of him because his dealing with it is the most interesting thing going on WWE television or their online videos, on the other hand I realise that it is only a matter of time, if he continues to address them and accepts his fate of boos but continues to just be himself and doesn't try to be something he isn't (a credible rapper) he will soon explode in popularity again, which hopfully WWE will capitolize on.

Basically what I am saying, John Cena over the past few weeks has been enjoyable to me, for the first time in his entire career infact...oh and he reminds me of a young Rocky.

*Sits in the corner prepared to get flamed, neg'd, and be torn apart*

[Londoner]

Yeah, I did a similar thread about this a while back.I said something about how Cena's situation reminds me of the rocks, only difference is that Cena is already on top where as the rock was still developing his character.

I think the good thing is that he's been taking notice of the fans booing him as you said,where as before they were ignoring the chants which was ridiculous.I still think he should just turn heel but i'm enjoying Cenas matches a lot more at the moment.That's mainly because of the crowd though.

[McLegend]

I get completly argee. I would rather see Cena the way he is now then a heel.

[Loose Cannon]

nah, I agree. I enjoy him in the way that I want to see him lose. He's been real good on the mic though the past month or so. Lots of real emotion.

I was going to make a seperate thread about this, but it's like we entered a whole new age with him because I think the crowd is actually starting to pay to see the babyface lose. It's like a total reversal of the blueprint of the industry of how tickets are sold.

[Batsu]

Originally Posted by Batsu, in another thread Disappointing as it is; I'm kind of indifferent to Cena not doing freestyles anymore, because that could have been grating if Cena was still doing that some 3 years after the fact, and made him one dimensional. His current evolution of his gimmick...from over the top carciature "white rap dude" to "just plain ass John Cena with a hiphop lilt" is fine. It's the way most gimmicks nowadays should be, not cartoonish bullshit that WWE somehow manages to get over with every now and then, but too much of it makes the product just seem the kind of gay it was before Bret, Stone Cold, and HBK made WWE programming seem a bit more believable again.

This might turn interesting...

[SammyG]

I was on that bandwagon that's really sick of him and all. Not saying he is a great champ, but I'm starting to like him again. This started after WM22.

[Kane Knight]

You are all dead to me.

[James Steele]

I find him promos to be overdone. Cena's idea of being "emotional" is to have a fucking seizure while talking like he has a stick up his ass.

[The One]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight You are all dead to me.

Were the typing names on the internet every really alive to you in the first place?

Originally Posted by JamesSteele I find him promos to be overdone. Cena's idea of being "emotional" is to have a fucking seizure while talking like he has a stick up his ass.

I would have agreed with that assesment even as short as a month ago. However lately he seems almost beaten every time he is on the mic, like every time he talks he is half a second away from crying becuase everywhere he goes at least 10,000 people are screaming for his blood when he is in the position to be their hero. He is trying to remain tough and keep his always cool, never stressed hip-hop culture persona (which I do believe, he believes he is a part of)...and yet it has got to be hard when millions of people want to gone, and you are the flagship of a multi-million dollar corperation...in a sense, he is the "Franchise Player" and yet, he is failing, naturally he would feel down and beaten, yet his pride (real life) and persona (kayfabe) must keep above it all and continue on doing what he is doing. It's a bizare thing in an industry so carefully scripted to have everything that should happen have almost a 180 effect...and that is starting to come through in his promos. He isn't shaking, he isn't throwing out rhymes, he isn't trying to be the Doctor Of Thugonomics...he is being John Cena half confused, and half pleeding with the fans to accept him. Like a child who wears all the right clothes, says all the right things, but still is the social outcast in Middle School. You want to join in with the chanting and the tourmenting, but something inside of you melts when you fully see how much it hurts them to be the social outcast. Now I am not saying I am as sympathetic towards Cena as I am the middle school kid waiting for his first friend, just that it's compelling to watch. I want to see the fans tear him apart, I want to see Cena be so greatful to the few remaining fans he has and try to play it off like he doesn't care about those who hate him, I want to see him cope with thousands of people chanting against him...and I do think when he is talking to the fans over the past few weeks, it has been 90% real John Cena begging for acceptence. And THAT is when wrestling makes it's connections with the fans, when is stops being 100% scripted and you make a personal connection with the man inside the character.

[Shadow]

If only I were gay....I'd marry you in a second The One.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Shadow If only I were gay....

You'd probably be a Cena fan.

[Shadow]

Too bad most of the people he's connecting to are guys like Vermaat and wwefan4life. It's those guys who turn all of us into Cena haters and such.

Though I must admit...your reasons for liking Cena are probably better than mine.

[The One]

I think John Cena has a potential to make a connection to a whole new group of fans...not Chain Gang Soilders...but people who can relate to doing all the right things and having the World piss on you.

Now there is a marketable character, yet one that couldn't be made through gimmicks, this evolution into the guy who's doing good but getting shit in return is something that has never happened before, and it could be huge is delt with correctly and if the fans continue to be as fickle as history has shown them to be.

[Shadow]

So knowing the WWE...they'll fuck it up royally.

[mrslackalack]

If they turned Cena heel it would be like the Rock when they got tired of his act. They'd boo him while face, but when turning him heel they would cheer and laugh when he does something funny.

[Skippord]

You're all dead to me too except for KK and JamesSteele

[Kane Knight]

It's amazing how desperately wrestling fans will go to cling to a shitty product.

[James Steele]

The One, I understand what you are saying however this is not going to last. His "true fans" are nothing but young children whose heroes change with each couple of years and supericial bimbos/teen girls going through adolescence who cheer at any guy who takes his shirt off. They will find a new "shiny object" to stare and drool at. Right now, John Cena is the new chewtoy for a bunch of dogs. They won't give a rats ass about him once they get a "new toy".

I loved Ninja Turtles with a passion, until I saw Power Rangers. I turned my back on the turtles and said "Fuck that...these power rangers fucking rule". I then found wrestling and I became drawn to Ric Flair, Sting, Stone Cold, DX, etc. etc. Hell, I used to be a Kevin Nash mark until I grew up and no longer enjoyed wrestling for the antics. I grew to love the art of wrestling.

The only things that change more than heroes in peoples lifetimes are their opinions and stress.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I agree, I honestly believe that John Cena does not have any "loyal" fans. He preaches all this loyalty stuff, but his character is based on being temporary. The WWE can't get their story straight with him. Is he a respectful traditionalist, or is he a revolutionist? They have changed their story with him so much it is hard for me to care.

I do sense the momentum swinging back under his name, though. People are beginning to feel sorry for him. New fans who just tuned in at WrestleMania have only heard the WWE's latest story with Cena; that he's the new guy that is changing wrestling and is not apart of the product that faded out of people's minds long ago. New fans will cheer John Cena to be different from the booing (which has become so mainstay it is now the "hip" thing to cheer John Cena) as will the women and children in the crowds. Hence a new hero will be born.

The WWE probably have plans to turn Cena heel, but I think they are trying to build him up as a new age Hulk Hogan before it happens. The WWE are probably looking to make an impact with his heel turn, so what better time to do it after he has gotten the half the fans behind him again?

Truth be told, I think the WWE is asking for trouble. Every attept they make to position the fans fails. People are booing Rey Mysterio. Good, lovable Rey Mysterio. Not because he's bad, he actually shows his wrestling ability in the ring, but they're booing him because of the WWE's way of positioning us. If the WWE has focused less on positioning us and giving us an intense program heading into WrestleMania, we would care more. If the WWE didn't try so hard to get us to love Cena, we might be a little less pre-disposed to hating him.

I do believe the best thing the WWE can do for John Cena is to have him drop the title, though. Have him beaten by Rob Van Dam, and when it becomes obvious that RVD is too good for Cena's superhero routine, he fights a little dirtier. Blurring the line between heels and faces, and just having characters is the best direction the WWE can go, in my opinion.

Don't use the "John Cena is a character" excuse, because his act is so phony it isn't even cheesy. If John Cena cares so much about being "The Champ" have him cheat his ass off to keep the belt. If Rey Mysterio loves Eddie Guerrero so much, have him lie, cheat and steal his way to victory instead of just riding the name wave.

The WWE is painting John Cena and Triple H as opposites. John Cena loves the fans, Triple H hates them, John Cena hugs elderly women, Triple H smashes their skulls' in with a sledgehammer, etc. Personally, and this may be just me, but I see John Cena and Triple H as having a lot in common professionally. If the WWE got John Cena in wrestling tights and stopped his "Loyalty. Hustle. Respect." shit (seriously, as much warmth and meaning as those comments have behind them, they sound cheesy as Hell coming from John Cena) Triple H and John Cena would both be about one thing...the WWE Title.

Instead of telling a decent story between these two, the WWE is trying to position us, and we are caring more about where we stand than who is fighting who. Tell a story and let the fans take their own side.

[Skippord]

What the fuck does Hustle Loyalty Respect even mean?

[Kane Knight]

Wow. So now, it's apparently a pity push.

Originally Posted by Skippord What the fuck does Hustle Loyalty Respect even mean?

"I'm a wigger who can throw together random words and get idiots to buy the shirt"

[Fox]

I seriously can't believe that the major main event angle leading up to WrestleMania focused on the WWE Champion being a shitty wrestler and the #1 contender being a "great mat technician."

This is supposed to get John Cena over? A pathetic build-up and an even more pathetic main event match? A submission victory that nobody bought? A clean pinfall that made him look like a jackass the very next night on RAW?

John Cena isn't going anywhere. Even if they turn him heel soon (which they won't, because there's nobody else to carry RAW) it's not going to save him because Triple H is the main heel in the WWE, and if Cena started to get over on him, he would be shot down the card faster than you can say "OMG BBQ SAUCE."

Cena is a failed main event experiment. Next, please!

[The One]

I completly agree. Most of John Cena's remaining fans are people (and by that I mean children and teenage girls). My interest in him has nothing to do with the John Cena who has a spinner belt and has bling bling...I am not loving this John Cena, I am loving the real John Cena (god this would be easier to discuss if he didn't wrestle under his real name). It is compelling to see a guy who is supposed to be a face and it treated to a shit load of boos everywhere he goes. It really isn't even John Cena, it's his situation that is interesting to watch.

I agree, WWE's biggest problem is that they are throwing out dumb shit for angles and gimmicks, however having the fans turn on what WWE is shoving down their throats is wonderful to watch. Becuase it puts John Cena (the real person) in the position where his character can't do the natural thing of get angry and tell them to fuck off, so instead we have someone pleading with people to like him. It's incredible, and being that John Cena (the real guy) has ability on the mic, it is coming through in such an interesting way.

WWE is and isn't to blame for this. It is nothing like what they wanted to have happen, yet where their failure has taken us is something no one could have planned out and it's interesting to a) talk about and b) watch. John Cena's career can be summed up in one comparison, a car crash on the side of the road. It's terrible, horrible, and you know you shouldn't...but we all slow down and try to see if anyone is dead...and recently I realised that the only real reason I tune in to see if this is the week WWE gives up and let's Uber-Face John Cena die, meanwhile, so long as they don't, I get to see John Cena struggle to stay alive as a face. It's wonderful, in that sick sort of way.

*~*It should be noted that I am not suggesting this is a good model to continue to work with, nor do I think most people should or do agree with me...this is just an explaination of why I personally find John Cena's recent few weeks to be entertaining.*~*

[darkpower]

I think this is the best thing that the WWE could be doing right now.

For one thing, this kind of advertises something that many people feel the WWE has lost: The ability to give fans the freedom to cheer and/or boo who they want regardless of what side the wrestler is on (remember all the crowd editing and all the signs being taken away). Now I know the WWE will just fix this by sending him back to SmackDown and edit crowd noise for him again, but this is a golden opportunity to solidify that such a freedom is still around for the company. The booing of a face that should be as over as Cena is right now (face it, he IS still over, why do you think he's getting the unintentional heat) is similar to how Stone Cold became so popular. They cheered him when he was supposed to be the heel. This in a sense started the Attitude era and the heavily advertised notion of the WWE fans being able to boo or cheer who THEY wanted. For this reason alone, I am liking Cena again.

I have to admit, as well, that Cena has proven that he can still work a mic, using this new "just don't give a fuck" attitude.

Furthermore, his feud with HHH right now is awesome because they play off of each other so well. Both are, in their own way, hated, and they both have ammunition to cut down the other on the air. And now with Edge being thrown into the mix and knowing how he and Cena can work a feud (and seeing how GOLD Edge's verbal match with HHH was on Raw), it's making me want to see what they do with Cena going into Backlash.

Basically, not only is this good for Cena to get back to being liked, but this is a good way for the WWE to make some good out of 2006, which sucked up to this point.

DEATH CERTIFICATE SIGNED AND SEALED BY DARKPOWER!! HAVE A VERY NICE AFTERLIFE!!!

[Dave Youell]

Regardless, right now Face or Heel or whatever, Cena is the most over worker with the crowd by Far

[tucsonspeed6]

Wow. Suddenly the big picture comes totaly into perspective. What if this was the plan by the WWE all along? Cena is one big experiment to see how they can control the crowd. It's all psychology. At first only a few people booed him. They were the real smart marks who could see that the guy couldn't wrestle. No problem for the WWE. After a while a majority of the internet fans began to catch on to the booing, maybe after reading boards like this or reading the WO they figured out he wasn't all he was cracked up to be. Now we've got more boos. Then the sheep follow. These are the people who think Hot Topic is cool. They saw somebody wearing a grunge/ punk shirt and decided they were gonna go get one for themselves. Now we've got a lot of boos.

And that's where the real psychology comes in. Who wants to be classified in the same group as all the sheep? I remember being in Hot Topic a few years ago. I saw a ditsy teeny bopper walk out of Abercrombie and right into Hot Topic. She wasn't lost, so I assumed I was and never came back. Point is, now that we've got all the sheep joining in and they've acknowledged that they know the booing is there. People don't feel like rebels anymore. They don't feel like "bad apples" as Vermaat would like to say. Soon the shepards will move to a new pasture, and where the shepards go, the sheep will follow.

[The One]

Originally Posted by tucsonspeed6 Wow. Suddenly the big picture comes totaly into perspective. What if this was the plan by the WWE all along? Cena is one big experiment to see how they can control the crowd. It's all psychology. At first only a few people booed him. They were the real smart marks who could see that the guy couldn't wrestle. No problem for the WWE. After a while a majority of the internet fans began to catch on to the booing, maybe after reading boards like this or reading the WO they figured out he wasn't all he was cracked up to be. Now we've got more boos. Then the sheep follow. These are the people who think Hot Topic is cool. They saw somebody wearing a grunge/ punk shirt and decided they were gonna go get one for themselves. Now we've got a lot of boos. And that's where the real psychology comes in. Who wants to be classified in the same group as all the sheep? I remember being in Hot Topic a few years ago. I saw a ditsy teeny bopper walk out of Abercrombie and right into Hot Topic. She wasn't lost, so I assumed I was and never came back. Point is, now that we've got all the sheep joining in and they've acknowledged that they know the booing is there. People don't feel like rebels anymore. They don't feel like "bad apples" as Vermaat would like to say. Soon the shepards will move to a new pasture, and where the shepards go, the sheep will follow.

I seriously doubt as though this was all a WWE planned out course of events. Nor do I think this was all a test of some kind, WWE I am sure is sitting around straching their heads and their asses wondering why everyone doesn't love Cena...I mean he is the character that personifies current pop culture (Hip-Hop For Everyone). In an ear where you walk through the halls of middle and high schools and see half the white kids wearing FUBU or Sean John it isn't hard to say "Here is John Cena, one of you, relate to him." I am all but 100% sure WWE expected us to say, "Yeah, one of us" the problem is the other half of the middle and high school kids...and here is the tricky part...EVERYONE ELSE ON THE PLANET looks at those kids as dismisses them as wiggers. I don't think the original boos came from smarks, do you know how I know, becuase half of the people on this board continued to sing his praise up until about SummerSlam to Survivor Series last year (hell his coming to RAW was supposed to be the greatest thing ever). His booing has been going on for a long time. And then once the boos started to come along, smarks started in with the argument that WWE isn't allowing him to battle rap, is making him tone down his in ring performece (which is weird becuase he has NEVER been anything even near average in the ring to being with)...most of the poeple on this board where the last ones to jump on the hate John Cena Radio Flyer. It's easy to forget that because since he won the title back at the Rumble he has been public enemy #1, but the truth is most people here loved the guy until just recently calling him the future of pro wrestling. The weird thing is after The Rumble if you called Cena the future of pro wrestling you were Vermaat.

So this isn't a case of sheep fallowing a shepard, because there hasn't been a solid shepard to fallow when it comes to John Cena. The original people who hated him, hated him becuase he was a wigger, then came the smarks who began to feel rebelious agianst WWE shoving him down our throats began to boo, then Jericho marks (there are always Jericho marks who arn't smarks) turned on Cena, Then came the Angle Marks (see: Jericho Marks), and finally we just got to the point where enough people boo him it's fun to join along...WHAT?...I said weather you like it or not you join in...WHAT?...do you see what I mean? And after you spend a night booing him out of the building you begin to sit down and think...hay...wait a second, everyone is right! He hasn't had one match that didn't look like a carbon copy of the one that came before it. He isn't that great of a performer, and he isn't the future of this industy. Therefore we see that each new group of people who began to boo John Cena arrived at that conclusion of sucking at their own independent point in time...and besides the last month or so of having even the most casual fan rip into him royally, no one got to that point by fallowing someone before him, it was everyone turned on him for their own reasons (or they have been an outspoken Anti-Cena mark all along like...well...me ).

And now, as I have mentioned before, when John Cena is on the mic 90% of the time he is talking straight from his heart and half asking people why they hate him and half pleeding with them to accept him. The other 10% of the time he breaks into his soilders who continue to support him, or some shit about Hustle Loyal Respect blah blah blah...but those times when he isn't dropping catchphrases, those times when it is just John Cena the man talking with the crowd...that is incredible to watch. It's compelling, it's not scripted, and it's not what a wrestler should be doing in the traditional sense. For me I just turned the corner and for the first time have found John Cena entertaining...I hate his character, but when he drops the fake wigger shit and just speaks, he wins me over. And what was the first group to hate him? The ones that hated him because he is a wigger, suprise, he drops the act, and those that hated him becuase he was a wigger begin to like him...as has been shown by crowd booing less and cheering more once be actually becomes real...only to return to the norm of booing the very next week once he comes out all gangsta shit. Those that hate him for being shoved down our throats will hate him so long WWE continues to push him, but once he is dropped from the title picture I suspect many will begin to like him then.

Again, other then those that just started to dislike Cena (the past month or so) everyone else got to the point of disliking Cena on their own, and in their own way. I don't see much shep fallowing going on. Nor do I think that if they keep doing what their doing with Cena will he get over again. I think a small group of people, like myself, will begin to like him for his honest promos...but most will continue to hate him for their own reasons, and more and more casual marks will begin to sit down and think independently as to why he gets so many boos, and find a reason to begin to boo him themselves. All happening by chance, and none of it by WWE design.

[tucsonspeed6]

I get your point, but I think a simple "Occam's Razor" would have sufficed.