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Old 12-16-2006, 05:49 AM   #1
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Has WWE invest too much money into John Cena's charachter..
just to scrap him? Is that why he's constantly being booed, yet still the #1 face of the company? If thats not the reason, then what is? I cant think of another reason. I've said this before, i think WWE is doing this shit on purpous. I think they are tanking it so that TNA can catch up and they can have a ratings war. Probably with the tought that a ratings war would produce more ratings overall for WWE.

I just cant figure out why Cena hasnt gotten pushed back down yet.

It dont matter who did what to who at this point. The fact is, we went to war. And now there aint no going back. It's what war is you know? Once you're in it, you're in it. If it's a lie, then we fight on that lie, but we gotta fight!
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Old 12-16-2006, 06:29 AM   #2
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Because he's not getting boo'd by everywhere. The WWE has succeeded in this because -

a) They've managed to push away all the casual fans and smarks with their terrible shows, leaving only the 13 year old Cena fans who naturally cheer for him. And...
b) They only hear what they want to hear anyway.
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Old 12-16-2006, 08:31 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavo
Because he's not getting boo'd by everywhere. The WWE has succeeded in this because -

a) They've managed to push away all the casual fans and smarks with their terrible shows, leaving only the 13 year old Cena fans who naturally cheer for him. And...
b) They only hear what they want to hear anyway.
you're way to simple minded. Business men dont tank there businesses on purpouse unless they think it will benefit them in the long run. That said, they just dont do it.

You dont run a family business for 20 years and then all of a sudden, just not listen to the opinions of your fans and most of your income basically. Theirs a major difference between a guy whos getting booed cause he's good at it and a guy whos getting booed cause he's just not working out and basically sucks balls.

All the over the top shit that WWE has put out and called there product over the past 6 months is just very strange. Nothing makes any sense. It feels like i'm watching a movie thats been cut up in 30 different clips and played out of order.

Its been said before, but it seems like WWE just wants us to stop watching and go watch another product.
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Old 12-16-2006, 10:00 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rectal Pertruder
you're way to simple minded. Business men dont tank there businesses on purpouse unless they think it will benefit them in the long run. That said, they just dont do it.
AND YET...

Cena was getting mixed reactions since well before they had gone all out on him.
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Old 12-16-2006, 08:39 AM   #5
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I think to an extent that they listen to the fans. Prime examples would be the Matt Hardy saga, CM Punk's push and perhaps even the reemergence of ECW. However, with Cena they've been completely ignorant.

He's their pet project. Their posterboy. Their top guy. The problem is that compared to eight years ago when they perhaps would've recognised there was an issue with their next top star and done something to change their direction, they've invested too much and gone too far to put it into reverse gear. It would be an admission of their own shortfallings, which they don't do liberally.

I don't think anyone wants to take the blame on this one.
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Old 12-16-2006, 01:10 PM   #6
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I, like many here, just think his on-air persona sucks. Overbooked, overhyped, and we all can see why it's happening. Problem is, Cena is the charismatic kind of worker that he could "Rocky Maivia" his way out of it, but WWE creative won't dare allow that if it gets in the way of their precious merchandise sales.
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Old 12-16-2006, 01:15 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batsu
...but WWE creative won't dare allow that if it gets in the way of their precious merchandise sales.
Yeh, but even in this very scope they dont realise two long terms flaws with this -

a) Eventually the market will be saturated with Cena merch. How many foam hands and Cena shirts can you sell to each kid?

b) If they depushed Cena, or even turned him heel, they could sell more merchandise across the board. Push other people in his place and sell their merch. Or even sell 'heel' Cena merch.
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Old 12-16-2006, 01:25 PM   #8
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I know I posted somehing very similar to this recently...so here is the answer as to why McMahon does it...

1) McMahon is more concerned with creating a media empire than he is about creating a good wrestling show.

2) John Cena is an incredibly naturally charismatic man and when he makes media tours on radio, talk show, etc., he makes a wonderful impression on everyone.

3) He is good looking...infact wasn't he just placed on People Sexiest List?

4) Basically it comes down to John Cena is a great person to be the "face" of professional wrestling to the outside world.

Secert Answer #5) He does not get as mixed reactions as people say. At this point, he has a solid 90% cheering section. Cena-Bashing is sort of 2005/early 2006. At this point I think most anti-Cena fans accept him just stay quite.
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Old 12-16-2006, 10:25 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The One
I know I posted somehing very similar to this recently...so here is the answer as to why McMahon does it...

1) McMahon is more concerned with creating a media empire than he is about creating a good wrestling show.

2) John Cena is an incredibly naturally charismatic man and when he makes media tours on radio, talk show, etc., he makes a wonderful impression on everyone.

3) He is good looking...infact wasn't he just placed on People Sexiest List?

4) Basically it comes down to John Cena is a great person to be the "face" of professional wrestling to the outside world.

Secert Answer #5) He does not get as mixed reactions as people say. At this point, he has a solid 90% cheering section. Cena-Bashing is sort of 2005/early 2006. At this point I think most anti-Cena fans accept him just stay quite.
1) While I tend to agree with you, is John Cena the guy on which to base a media empire? Granted, he's had a CD, and a movie, but as you have stated, both pretty much sucked at making the WWE cash.

2) This is probably true, he is a very humble man, and he does seem to rub people the right way. I'm pretty sure Paul London or Brian Kendrick could rub people the right way, too.

3) I agree with Kane Knight, the guy has always looked like an ape/wigger child to me, but the girls seem to love him, and I can't really argue with The One. Even if I think the guy is ugly as Hell, he does make the lists, and women do cheer him, but I have to pose this question: Is Cena's attractiveness the reason he's a success, or is his success the reason people find him more attractive? Let's take Paul London and Brian Kendrick again. If they were pushed to the moon like John Cena, don't you think they'd be just as, if not more, attractive to the media?

4) If he's such a great face, why has business depleted? Why did Stone Cold Steve Austin do in a single WWE Title win what John Cena hasn't been able to do with three WWE Championship reigns?

I'm not arguing to be an ass, I'm just posing more questions on the issue.

Ironically, I believe the reason John Cena has failed so badly, is because the WWE spent too much money on him in the first place. When John Cena took the WWE United States Championship and turned it into the silver spinner belt, that's when a lot of people began to sour on Cena. It was just a pointless expense. It really didn't do anything, except maybe create a prop they could market to make some extra cash here or there.

Then there was the 2005 Royal Rumble fiasco. That giant spaceship/rampy thingy. What the fuck was up with that? The guy's meant to be all "Fuck the World!" and rebellious, yet he has an entrance that reeked of glamour and managerial support.

Glamour in wrestling should belong to the heels. That doesn't mean a face can't be stylish: Ring attire is probably the easiest example of reasonable babyface stylish expression, but the big entrances, streamers, even some pyrotechnic effects, should be saved exclusively for heels, as if to say "Look at the money I've got backing me, I'm more an entertainer than a sportsperson".

The WWE's best bet to getting John Cena back into the good graces of the non-casual fan, is to get rid of that crappy spinner belt. Have Umaga smash it, or something (that was an idea I read of someone else's here), and then have John Cena bring back the eagle Championship, or the undisputed Championship belt. Cut out that Marine shit. John Cena didn't serve, what the fuck is the point? I think it's more offencive than anything else, and it makes the bastard seem corny as all Hell.

I'm still under the impression that the WWE must realise John Cena will one day be the top heel of World Wrestling Entertainment. That can be the only reason they keep the fuck looking so strong, so that when he does turn, people will be able to buy him as a huge obstacle for the up-and-coming babyface to overthrow. Nothing against Edge or Randy Orton, but let's face it, neither is the most credible guy walking the face of the Earth.

That is the only reason I can think to keep Cena looking so strong, even when business is being so shitty.
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Old 12-16-2006, 11:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienoid06
4) If he's such a great face, why has business depleted? Why did Stone Cold Steve Austin do in a single WWE Title win what John Cena hasn't been able to do with three WWE Championship reigns?
Because he's talking outsside the WWE, where he comes off as presentable. He's easilly liked and comes off as genuinely charming.

Note that WWE's stock is at a 5 year high.
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Old 12-16-2006, 11:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Because he's talking outsside the WWE, where he comes off as presentable. He's easilly liked and comes off as genuinely charming.

Note that WWE's stock is at a 5 year high.
I see what you're saying, but question 2) was much the same theory. The guy may be likeable and charming, but is that something John Cena uniquely posses?

I inferred "outside the wrestling world" to mean to the media, the average non-fan, etc. That is to ask, "is this person a draw". Is John Cena a draw? Fuck no. If The One meant stock and promotional to family groups, etc., then I apologise for misinterpreting. Go back five years and you get the days of Stone Cold and The Rock, anyway. So my point still stands.
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Old 12-16-2006, 08:12 PM   #12
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I always thought Cena was kind of Goofy looking.

The One, in answer tosecret answer #5, I'd say that his "mixed reaction" has disappeared due to decreased viewership. I'd also say 90% is a major exageration, but that's another argument.

When the ratings dropped from the 3.6 rating to the 3.0 area, the boos disappeared. Since then, Cena doesn't really get booed, but then, WWE has been unable to reach much higher than 3.0 for more than a week at a time, and has also spent a lot of time below 3.0. Yeah, Cena hating is over. WWE won. It's called a pyrrhic victory. The reactions also sound a bit less powerful overall, though I'm admittedly unsure I'm quantifying this properly.

But if your only goal is to not get Cena booed, this is a decent solution.
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Old 12-16-2006, 08:16 PM   #13
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Less bad apples is why Cena isnt getting booed as much
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Old 12-16-2006, 08:27 PM   #14
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I don't keep track of RAW ratings, so I didn't know there was a drop like that recently. But Skip might have a point. Those damn bad apples stoped giving money, if WWE refuses to accept a decline in viewership under Cena's reign as reflective of either Cena or DX (which clearly they do) and all that's left is small markish children...well...might as well give the remaining audeince what they want...or something...eh...

Oh and, yes, Cena is hot.
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Old 12-16-2006, 08:42 PM   #15
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I don't find him hot. Then again, Steven Tyler's also made those lists, and he needed Plastic Surgery to keep him from accidentally swalloing his children...

And yes, a .6 ratings drop has occurred. Many episodes of Raw have been under 3.0. A consistant .6 drop is evident, and shows something is wrong. One hour was below 3 last week, too. It's hard to say "bad apples" when that large a chunk disappeared.
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Old 12-16-2006, 08:53 PM   #16
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ITS ALL THE BAD APPLES FAULT!!!!!!
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Old 12-16-2006, 08:55 PM   #17
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AND WWE, while it is doing AWESOME, could LOSE IT ALL because JOHN CENA IS MAKE IT or BREAK IT RAAARRRR SNORT
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Old 12-16-2006, 08:56 PM   #18
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Anyone else wonder if Vermaat was Jim Ross? I mean, he always tried to push everything as though it was the best ever, though there was some slim but major threat...
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Old 12-16-2006, 08:58 PM   #19
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^ Make it or break it does sound like something JR would say, hmmm...
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Old 12-16-2006, 09:15 PM   #20
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Of course the WWE hasn't invested too much in John Cena. In their eyes, the guy is a huge success. Girls scream, children cry, men boo. He's the 'most controversial WWE Champion of all time' becuase of what a success is.

However, defining 'meh' as 'controversial' is something that could only be related to John.

He's had a hugely successul album, a hugely successful movie. Everyone loves him. Everybody wins. If John Cena left the WWE to persue, what could be, a mammoth movie career, then well, please welcome your WWE Champion - The Masterpiece, Chris Masters!
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Old 12-16-2006, 09:25 PM   #21
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...I can't tell...are you legit saying Marine and "You Can't See Me" were successful?

Nevermind Hugely Successful.
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Old 12-16-2006, 09:28 PM   #22
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They have destroyed Cena to the point where I sont think he can be saved...they should never have destroyed his gang thing...I MISS THE CHAIN!!!
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Old 12-16-2006, 09:31 PM   #23
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Quote:
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...I can't tell...are you legit saying Marine and "You Can't See Me" were successful?

Nevermind Hugely Successful.
I had a moment of 'chain gang soldier' weakness.
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Old 12-16-2006, 09:34 PM   #24
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Uh, Marine is not going to make the 8% mark that is the stanard in the entertainment industry, and "You Can't See Me" was less successful than WWE The Music.

Neither were terrible investments, but one could hardly come close to saying they were hugely successful.
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Old 12-16-2006, 09:37 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by The One
Uh, Marine is not going to make the 8% mark that is the stanard in the entertainment industry, and "You Can't See Me" was less successful than WWE The Music.

Neither were terrible investments, but one could hardly come close to saying they were hugely successful.
Think like a WWE yes man, you can smell the success.

In all seriousness though, I wish The Marine would have been a success, therfore John could have followed his heart to Hollywood and stayed there. And yes, I would prefer Masters as champion to Cena right now.
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Old 12-16-2006, 09:47 PM   #26
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And yes, I would prefer Masters as champion to Cena right now.
Amazingly, so would I.
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Old 12-16-2006, 09:48 PM   #27
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Think like a WWE yes man, you can smell the success.
Yes, but I can also smell my last two brain cells frying.
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Old 12-16-2006, 09:50 PM   #28
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Yes, but I can also smell my last two brain cells frying.
You can't think like a WWE yes man if you still have two brain cells left...
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Old 12-16-2006, 09:45 PM   #29
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An interesting note, if you divide opening weekend by the number of screnes they showed on, See No Evil made more money per screne than The Marine did.
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Old 12-16-2006, 09:49 PM   #30
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An interesting note, if you divide opening weekend by the number of screnes they showed on, See No Evil made more money per screne than The Marine did.
And neither were hugely successful.
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Old 12-16-2006, 09:55 PM   #31
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And neither were hugely successful.
No, and I doubt Triple H's new Western Movie or Austin's new...whatever his movie is about...will be successful. But never the less, there is a chain of sucessfullness, even in the loser section.

Vince is a terrible producer, but at least it's not Gigli.
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Old 12-16-2006, 09:59 PM   #32
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Triple H's new Western Movie
Are you fucking kidding me? I've not heard about this.

What's the plot, Triple H plays 'Mad Dog Helmsley' who comes to the western town of Victoria, Texas, beats Billy The Kid in a card game and procedes to hold the rest of the cowboys down?
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Old 12-16-2006, 10:02 PM   #33
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Are you fucking kidding me? I've not heard about this.

What's the plot, Triple H plays 'Mad Dog Helmsley' who comes to the western town of Victoria, Texas, beats Billy The Kid in a card game and procedes to hold the rest of the cowboys down?
Journey of the Dead Man, set for 07. It was the first WWE films movie announced.
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Old 12-16-2006, 10:03 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by The One
No, and I doubt Triple H's new Western Movie or Austin's new...whatever his movie is about...will be successful. But never the less, there is a chain of sucessfullness, even in the loser section.

Vince is a terrible producer, but at least it's not Gigli.
I thought The Marine was horribly underrated. It wasn't a great flick, but in terms of an action flick, it should have held its own against the pack.
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Old 12-17-2006, 12:07 AM   #35
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He isn't on the level of "Pop Culture" that Rock or Austin were...but right now he is probably the best wrestler to show the world and say "This is him."

Is he the best choice? Probably not. But he does a damn good job of it. He is fantastic outside of the ring. He can make little pop ups in various shows and people love him. People who don't know wrestling love him. The fact is he is that guy, and WWE has spent millions of dollars making him that. Would we have possibly chosen someone else? Hell yeah. Chris Jericho for one. But what's done is done, and at this point, WWE wants to make as much off their investment as possible.

(If I made some type-os...sue me. I'm drunk)
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Old 12-17-2006, 12:13 AM   #36
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Quote:
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He isn't on the level of "Pop Culture" that Rock or Austin were...but right now he is probably the best wrestler to show the world and say "This is him."

Is he the best choice? Probably not. But he does a damn good job of it. He is fantastic outside of the ring. He can make little pop ups in various shows and people love him. People who don't know wrestling love him. The fact is he is that guy, and WWE has spent millions of dollars making him that. Would we have possibly chosen someone else? Hell yeah. Chris Jericho for one. But what's done is done, and at this point, WWE wants to make as much off their investment as possible.

(If I made some type-os...sue me. I'm drunk)
I don't doubt for a minute John Cena does an adequate job in outside appearances, and what-not, but as you suggested, he's not the right person, nor does he do a good enough job. If he did, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.
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Old 12-17-2006, 09:36 AM   #37
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I don't doubt for a minute John Cena does an adequate job in outside appearances, and what-not, but as you suggested, he's not the right person, nor does he do a good enough job. If he did, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.
He's not the right person in the ring, no. But there's a pretty good reason McMAhon thinks he's the right guy for the biz--He's charming and a yesman, which means he's not going to, you know, try anything new, inventive or contrary to Vince and the last 5 years of making things worse.
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Old 12-17-2006, 12:16 AM   #38
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No where did I say this was a good thing, I answered why McMahon continues to do it. He's done what he wanted, and nobody, NOBODY can convince McMahon he was wrong once he made up his mind.

I will say, Cena is probably the third best "Face of the Industry" behind Rock (#1) and Hogan (#2). Not saying they are the most over, just the best at relating to non-wrestling fans.
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Old 12-17-2006, 12:27 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The One
No where did I say this was a good thing, I answered why McMahon continues to do it.
I know, I detected that in your first post.

Actually, I was more trying to point out how much a douche Vince is, rather than argue directly with you. More like a "yes, but" to the situation Vince has created for himself, highlighting what an idiot he is for continuing on his current path.

I was originally going to do something very similar to what you did.
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Old 12-17-2006, 09:19 AM   #40
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I will say, Cena is probably the third best "Face of the Industry" behind Rock (#1) and Hogan (#2). Not saying they are the most over, just the best at relating to non-wrestling fans.
Personally, from talking to my chums who do not like wrestling, I'd put Cena way back behind half of the roster from 1998 to 2002. Hell, I can imagine that most non fans can relate more to the Ultimate Warrior than Cena.
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