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Old 11-21-2006, 03:30 PM   #1
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DSW is stupid
- Deep South Wrestling (a training ground for WWE) has started fining wrestlers $250 if they break kayfabe in public areas like restaurants and bars. Considering some of the Deep South wrestlers make roughly $500 a week, $250 is a large chunk of their salary. [PWInsider.com]

What the hell.

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Old 11-21-2006, 03:37 PM   #2
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how gay is that
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Old 11-21-2006, 04:56 PM   #3
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This is what happens when there is not a union to protect them. The prolitariat will ALWAYS be fucked over; like it or lump it. These guys who go into a non-union business should already understand this sort of thing, and expect it.
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Old 11-21-2006, 04:59 PM   #4
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Crap like this is why guys are leaving DSW.
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Old 11-21-2006, 05:31 PM   #5
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Certainly is stupid.
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Old 11-21-2006, 07:27 PM   #6
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Sounds like a good way to go out of business.
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Old 11-21-2006, 07:32 PM   #7
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Imagine how funny it would be, if people like Undertaker, Umaga, or Abyss had to not break Kayfabe, I would laugh my ass off.
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Old 11-21-2006, 07:33 PM   #8
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Umaga would be hilarious, especially in McDonalds.
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Old 11-21-2006, 08:05 PM   #9
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I think DSW is tightening up to get more money. They've recently increased ticket prices. OVW is the better developmental league, in my opinion, but apparently that is going downhill, too.

The WWE should focus on keeping the developmental system they have operational before they expand elsewhere.
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Old 11-21-2006, 08:31 PM   #10
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OVW was raped last year, of course it went down hill.
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Old 11-21-2006, 10:32 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor
OVW was raped last year, of course it went down hill.
I don't think it helped that they aren't even using Seth Skyfire in an effective way. He's probably the last babyface they had left, and they decide to put him in a mask and have him compete in the mid-card.

They claim that there is no one down there to help the younger guys. Why not have Sean Morley, Rob Conway, Nick Dinsmore and Doug Basham report down there? The WWE has pretty much scrapped taping matches for Heat, they may as well have their misused veterans do something constructive.
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Old 11-22-2006, 07:29 AM   #12
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Gee, asking them to be professionals outside the ring and take their jobs seriously. Shocking.
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Old 11-22-2006, 07:33 AM   #13
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In all fairness, there iare some gimmicks that may be a little hard to keep outside the ring, e.g Taker, Umaga, Kane, Cryme Tyme, I mean thier gimmicks would either make them look incredibly stupid, or get them in alot of crap (with the police).
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Old 11-22-2006, 07:36 AM   #14
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Kayfabe does not necessarily = staying in character i.e. the old rule Bill Watts had of faces and heels not hanging out in public
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Old 11-22-2006, 09:44 AM   #15
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Yeah but 250.00 of their salary. That's quite a lot of money.

I'm all in favor of kayfabe, but there is no need for it to be that high.
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Old 11-22-2006, 10:43 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by St. Jimmy
Umaga would be hilarious, especially in McDonalds.
Csahier: Hi! Welcome to McDonalds, what can I get for you today?
Umaga: Faatupuina se atemosifia faaleaoaoga!!!
Estrada: BAAA SAMOAAA!!!
Cashier: So that's two double cheeseburgers...anything else with that today?
Umaga: Falaoamata tagata faitautusi naunau!!!!!
Cashier: Oh, I'm sorry, we don't have onion rings here...
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Old 11-22-2006, 10:45 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Monday Morning
Gee, asking them to be professionals outside the ring and take their jobs seriously. Shocking.
Oh yeah, because actors in TV shows are told to act like their characters outside of work all the time. The same should apply to wrestling. We all know it's not real by now. It's a TV show with actors and characters and storylines. The whole kayfabe-outside-of-wrestling thing is dated.
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Old 11-22-2006, 11:20 AM   #18
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1) They're not actors. No matter how much bullshit about sports entertainment you wish to reel off, they're not comparable. The entire wrestling business is built on the illusion of everything being real and people paying money to see guys wrestle. They don't sell PPVs for CSI or 24. It's not a ludicrous proposition to suggest that the more WWE has exposed the business, the worse their profits have gotten. Look at how MMA is booming.

2) You're talking about DEEP SOUTH. Not fucking Raw. They operate in their own little world, to coin a phrase, and they want to keep kayfabe alive in that world. The chances of them being spotted out on the town or whatever are far higher where they are than being on the road 300 days a year. On top of which these guys haven't made it yet, and they need grounding in the business, however 'dated' it might be.
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Old 11-22-2006, 11:22 AM   #19
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You're right, but there fined half of thier salary. That's just not right.
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Old 11-22-2006, 11:24 AM   #20
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btw on a side note if 24 had a PPV special or something I would buy it
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Old 11-22-2006, 11:42 AM   #21
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Yeah maybe half a paycheck is harsh but hey, it'll make em pay attention
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Old 11-22-2006, 02:05 PM   #22
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No, you're stupid! :foc:
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Old 11-22-2006, 02:18 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Monday Morning
1) They're not actors. No matter how much bullshit about sports entertainment you wish to reel off, they're not comparable. The entire wrestling business is built on the illusion of everything being real and people paying money to see guys wrestle. They don't sell PPVs for CSI or 24. It's not a ludicrous proposition to suggest that the more WWE has exposed the business, the worse their profits have gotten. Look at how MMA is booming.

2) You're talking about DEEP SOUTH. Not fucking Raw. They operate in their own little world, to coin a phrase, and they want to keep kayfabe alive in that world. The chances of them being spotted out on the town or whatever are far higher where they are than being on the road 300 days a year. On top of which these guys haven't made it yet, and they need grounding in the business, however 'dated' it might be.
KAYFABE is really the elephant in the room. Everyone knows it's fake. It's not just "archaic," it's simply not effective. There is no real reason to mandate KAYFABE outside the ring.

Let's leave MMA out of this.

I'm not sure what the point is to mentioning it's not CSI. It's still entertainment. No other entertainment field mandates this illusion, an illusion that dates back to carnie times when people actually bought into it. People don't these days. I don't think it really matters that there aren't 24 PPVs.
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Old 11-23-2006, 07:17 AM   #24
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There's a difference between people knowing it's fake and the companies themselves going out of their way to show that it is. Over the last few years the more they have done so the more business has gone down. It's pretty much one of the main reasons WCW died at the end.

And the point about CSI was that at no point are they ever trying to convince people watching to outlay money on something they have built up towards. If they did that there would be PPVs for season finales. Wrestling also does not have downtime like TV shows, they work all year round.

I'm not saying kayfabe is the saving grace of wrestling or anything but giving the younger guys a grounding can't hurt.
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Old 11-23-2006, 07:46 AM   #25
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It really depends to what extent they have to keep kayfabe.

Having bitter rivals not hang out is one thing. If you're approached by a kid who obviously doesn't know, fine, stay in character. If you're someone like Eugene though (example obviously), it's retarded (no pun intended) to have to stay in character when going out in public, and if that's the extent they're taking it to, then they're crazy.

Take Rico a few years back. There'd be no reason to have him act that flamboyantly gay in public.
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Old 11-23-2006, 09:29 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Monday Morning
There's a difference between people knowing it's fake and the companies themselves going out of their way to show that it is. Over the last few years the more they have done so the more business has gone down. It's pretty much one of the main reasons WCW died at the end.

And the point about CSI was that at no point are they ever trying to convince people watching to outlay money on something they have built up towards. If they did that there would be PPVs for season finales. Wrestling also does not have downtime like TV shows, they work all year round.

I'm not saying kayfabe is the saving grace of wrestling or anything but giving the younger guys a grounding can't hurt.
But they're not going out of their way.

Again, your points on TV vs wrestling don't really go anywhere. No downtime? So what? That doesn't change that it's still entertainment. Plays and musicals go year round. Some musicians tour year round.

And this whole "grounding" thing is an artificial argument.
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Old 11-23-2006, 10:36 AM   #27
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I'm sure I don't have to remind you of the McMahon "Get it?" promo, or all the ridiculous shit Vince Russo has pulled over the years. That is going out of their way.

Plays, musicals and musicians play the same set or do the same show every time, it's a different medium. Wrestling is a changing entity every week with the constant goal of making the same people spend more money. How many copies of a musician's album are you going to buy? If you go and see them twice on tour will you buy the same album or shirt more than once? Every single week these guys are trying to make people care enough to spend money on merch, PPVs, whatever it may be.

Besides which, guys like Eugene are made to kayfabe in public, why the hell shouldn't students?

And saying there's an artificial argument about a fake sport is a bit facetious, don't you think
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Old 11-23-2006, 10:44 AM   #28
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Honest question. Aren't the majority of people these days who go to indy feds smarks anyway? I could be wrong, but I can't imagine many marks going to a small time indy show.

If that's the case, does it even matter?
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Old 11-23-2006, 11:11 AM   #29
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So did they have rico suck mad cock to maintain kayfabe?
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Old 11-23-2006, 11:53 AM   #30
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Rico wasn't gay, he was flamboyant
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Old 11-23-2006, 04:04 PM   #31
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Most of the characters in DSW are just guys playing themselves, anyway. So when they talk about "keeping kayfabe", they just mean not hanging out with the guy you fought in a Street Fight not 30 minutes ago.
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Old 11-23-2006, 04:07 PM   #32
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I think Jerry Lawler should stay Kayfabe. Walk around with a crown and tights at all times. Seriously, why does the guy wear tights half the time even if he's not wrestling. Better yet, why does the guy wrestle?
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Old 11-23-2006, 04:19 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Monday Morning
I'm sure I don't have to remind you of the McMahon "Get it?" promo, or all the ridiculous shit Vince Russo has pulled over the years. That is going out of their way.
Nice misuse of facetious, BTW.

Ummm...Anyway...That wasn't DSW. I don't know what you're talking about, but I'm talking about the actions of rigidly enforcing KAYFABE being unneccessary, which is what they are doing. You were the one who distinguished DSW from WWE, though most of your argument seems to revolve around it as though we're talking Monday Night Raw, so perhaps I was just wrong to assume we were still...You know...On the topic.
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Old 11-24-2006, 06:41 AM   #34
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The McMahon/Russo stuff was to illustrate that the big wrestling companies *have* gone out of their way to break kayfabe, something which you refuted earlier. Like it or not a majority of fans still think that WWE = wrestling, so whatever they do impacts on the entire business.

I distinguished DSW from WWE only in the sense that they do not tour nationally, they work a local area and so the chances of them being seen out on the town are far higher. The article doesn't mention exactly how rigid they're being aside from 'restaurants and bars', so it's pretty safe to assume, like Alienoid mentioned, it will be something along the lines of "don't be seen having a beer with the guy who just beat the shit out of you". To me, that makes sense.

Most of the argument revolves around Raw or whatever because they are being prepared (presumably) to be promoted to TV when they are ready. Or aren't, in some cases. That's the whole point of the feeder system, to ingrain into them how to work, how to behave, etc etc (although I'm not sure if you can be taught how to handle being hazed by Bradshaw in the showers). If they are taught these things early in their careers the better the chance it will stick and it will help them if/when they make it because of what I outlined before.
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