MLB 2007-2008 Offseason Thread - Page 15

**Evil Vito** · 12-03-2007, 10:03 AM

And this just in: Pettitte has told the Houston Chronicle he intends to pitch for the Yankees next year. Wouldn't be surprised if they pull out of the Johan sweepstakes altogether now.

**YOUR Hero** · 12-03-2007, 11:03 AM

I may be alone in this, but over the last couple years, Santana has become a bit more vocal about his dislikes than he ever was. Now I'm not saying this means he's got an attitude 'problem'... yet..., but he knows his value and he seems to be becoming far more outspoken. It might mean nothing, but it also might be the beginning of something quite negative. I guess my red flag goes up when I hear or read about him saying things that hamper his team's potential success.

**Dragon** · 12-03-2007, 11:06 AM

Nice, Pettitte coming back is huge for the Yankees. I don't think it affects the Johan trade stuff though. If the suspected deal with Hughes goes through then a Santana, Wang, Pettitte, Joba, Kennedy/Moose rotation is pretty solid. Really though, I get the feeling Santana will be a Twin or Red Sox next year for some reason.

**Dragon** · 12-03-2007, 11:18 AM

Losing out on Santana would be a whole lot easier for the next year though with Pettitte returning. It would be even easier if Johan ends up staying with the Twins and walking next offseason.

Pettitte-Wang-Hughes-Joba-Moose/Kennedy isn't the most reliable rotation at all, but it is passable. If Hughes pitches anything like the last month of last season and Joba transitions decently it could be good.

**Loose Cannon** · 12-03-2007, 11:22 AM

lol Hank is just like, yea make a decision or go screw yourself.

**Hanso Amore** · 12-03-2007, 12:34 PM

I dont think we will see Joba starting yet. Unless someone goes down, but if they can keep him in the pen and field 5 starters, he is going to be the lockdown set up man.

**Dragon** · 12-03-2007, 12:42 PM

I doubt it, we don't really have an influx of quality starters and taking him out weakens the rotation quite a bit by just going off his potential to be great in the rotation. Hopefully he starts in the rotation; the only way I could have seen him in the pen is as the closer if Rivera left.

**FakeLaser** · 12-03-2007, 12:57 PM

I think if we get Santana this year we might see Joba setting up this year, then moved to the rotation next year.

Santana
Wang
Pettitte
Kennedy
Mussina

CL - Rivera
8th - Joba
7th - Vizcaino

Pretty fucking tough to beat.

**Splaya** · 12-03-2007, 01:03 PM

According to Yahoo.com, Petitte will pitch for the Yankees in 08.

That's huge news for you Yankee Fans

**Evil Vito** · 12-03-2007, 01:19 PM

Would feel really weird seeing Johan without his trademark goatee if he goes to the Yanks.

But yeah with Pettitte returning they now have basically the same team as 2007. Now it's up to them to decide if they think Hughes and Kennedy will blossom this year or if they want the sure-thing in Santana

**Dragon** · 12-03-2007, 01:22 PM

I dunno, I still think Joba would be a waste in the bullpen. If he was gonna take over closer duties or something then I could see it but not as a set-up man. I think I could deal with it better if I thought Mussina could actually pitch decent enough over a full season. I don't see that though.

**Loose Cannon** · 12-03-2007, 01:25 PM

I think in the regular season, they should try him as a starter, but if they make the playoffs, you got to throw him out of the bullpen. Especially if he's a 4th guy

**Evil Vito** · 12-03-2007, 01:25 PM

All I've heard from Winter Meetings thus far is that the A's, O's, Marlins, and Giants have been hounded with offers for pitching. (Haren, Blanton, Bedard, Willis, Cain, Lincecum)

Oh, and the Dodgers are looming in on a contract with Andruw Jones...which would probably mean they are no longer interested in Cabrera and will certainly be able to nab one of the pitchers with what they are able to offer.

**Evil Vito** · 12-03-2007, 01:29 PM

And according to Gammons, Billy Beane has already informed the Mets that he really isn't interested in anything they have to offer.

Fuck him.

**FakeLaser** · 12-03-2007, 01:33 PM

This has been like the most dramatic offseason for the Yankees. Steinbrenner steps down. Gator gets fired. Torre gets fired. Mattingly leaves. Then there's all the uncertainty over Posada and Rivera. A-Rod opts out. Pettitte. Santana. Jesus christ.

**Dragon** · 12-03-2007, 02:03 PM

Yeah, I could definitely see Joba in the pen in the playoffs. Or maybe even later on in the year considering they need to keep his innings down.

**Evil Vito** · 12-03-2007, 02:06 PM

Seems to be two thoughts coming from the Mets camp now: either trade any player short of Wright or Reyes to get an ace...or try to swing deals for lesser pitchers still under contract for awhile (Arroyo being a name brought up alot)

I dunno....they need an ace and all but it would kinda suck if they dealt Maine or Perez or something only to leave us with the same void to fill

**Loose Cannon** · 12-03-2007, 02:06 PM

yea, I first I was kind of against even having him as a starter and then I thought about it. The Yankees don't really need a set up guy that much throughout the season anyway because they score tons of runs. Yea, they'll be close games at times, but when you weigh it, I think Joba is more valuable as a starter

**MVP** · 12-03-2007, 02:06 PM

According to SI.com's Jon Heyman, it looks very likely that Santana could get traded to the Red Sox or Yankees today.

Theo, don't trade Ellsbury

**Evil Vito** · 12-03-2007, 02:08 PM

LOL now the Twins are seeking tampering charges against Hank

**Loose Cannon** · 12-03-2007, 02:10 PM

where are you reading all this Vito? You have like Insider or something?

**Evil Vito** · 12-03-2007, 02:13 PM

I don't have Insider personally but there's people on all the message boards leaking articles from it.

As for my Mets info, I use MetsBlog.com they've got a rep at the meetings feeding information.

Also, according to MLB Radio, the D’Backs will soon announce that they have traded OF Carlos Quentin to the White Sox for 20–year-old 1B Chris Carter.

**Dragon** · 12-03-2007, 02:16 PM

I dunno. I just can't see the Twins trading with the Yanks for some reason. I think Hughes would probably even be overpaying considering the only big piece Boston will include is Lester or Ellsbury, not both.

I still think that a Kennedy, Melky, Tabata, Horne/Marquez/other deal would be better than Boston's. Major league ready starter in Kennedy, ML CF in Melky, high ceiling outfield prospect in Tabata and a near-ready starter in Horne. I dunno, I guess I'm just holding on to hope that Hughes sticks around. As unlikely as that seems right now if we want Santana.

**Evil Vito** · 12-03-2007, 03:03 PM

Now the Indians have said the Mets don't have enough to get Cliff Lee. CLIFF LEE ffs

So that's Lee, Haren, and Blanton all seemingly off-limits and I don't really see them landing any other available starter.

Hello, Carlos Silva and Bartolo Colon!

**Evil Vito** · 12-03-2007, 03:56 PM

Word has it the Rays are about to trade Elijah Dukes to the Nationals.

If the Rays get more for Dukes than what the Mets got for Milledge I'm gonna puke.

**Evil Vito** · 12-03-2007, 05:22 PM

K so the Nats wound up giving a minor leaguer to be named later for Dukes. No big deal.

So the Red Sox, Yankees, Mets, Phillies, Dodgers, Angels, Mariners, and Diamondbacks have all been linked to talks with Bedard. Shit, I bet you can likely rule out those first two teams...and Bedard is still prolly gonna cost more than Santana.

**FakeLaser** · 12-03-2007, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Vito 22

Now the Indians have said the Mets don't have enough to get Cliff Lee. CLIFF LEE ffs

So that's Lee, Haren, and Blanton all seemingly off-limits and I don't really see them landing any other available starter.

Hello, Carlos Silva and Bartolo Colon!

None of them are hispanic, of course you won't get them. Colon and Silva, however...

**FakeLaser** · 12-03-2007, 05:36 PM

Also

Quote:

A source told ESPN's Jerry Crasnick that the Dodgers have a two-year, $32 million offer to Andruw Jones on the table.

That's not the kind of offer that figures to make Jones sign on the dotted line anytime soon. No one has stepped up with the kind of five- or six-year deal agent Scott Boras wants, but it'd be a surprise if some team wasn't willing to go to at least $50 million for three years.

I can't see Jones getting more than 3 or MAYBE 4 years after the year he just put up. He'll probably get Bobby Abreu type money.

Quote:

Brewers GM Doug Melvin confirmed that the Nationals offered him Chad Cordero for Rickie Weeks and that he turned it down.

Melvin insists he won't part with Weeks, J.J. Hardy or Corey Hart just to land a proven closer. He may be interested in Cordero if there was another way of getting him, but Brian Fuentes seems like a more realistic possibility for the Brewers.

Am I the only one who thinks Rickie Weeks is overrated as hell?

Quote:

Free agent Darin Erstad has received interest from the Padres, Mariners, Astros and Rays.

I could see him on any of those teams except the Rays, which makes no sense.

Quote:

The Padres have offered free agent Brett Tomko a one-year, $1.5 million contract.

Tomko would likely be a reliever initially if he stayed with San Diego. Also looking at the journeyman right-hander are the Nationals, Pirates, Marlins, Reds and Rangers. Throw in the Royals and we'd have all of the usual suspects.

If I were him I'd sign with San Diego. Best place in the world for a mediocre pitcher to pitch.

Quote:

The Rockies have reportedly offered free agent Jeremy Affeldt only $4 million for two years.

Affeldt doesn't have the track record of some of the other lefties available, but he has better stuff than most and he's only 28. He's going to get at least J.C. Romero money, and the Rockies feel that someone may offer $16 million for four years.

This is a guy I wouldn't mind the Yankees taking a gamble on as a lefty in the pen. He can start too if you need. Not much risk involved here.

Quote:

White Sox acquired outfielder Carlos Quentin from the Diamondbacks for first baseman Chris Carter.

A great gamble for the White Sox here. Quentin is questionable for Opening Day following October surgery to repair the rotator cuff and labrum in his left (non-throwing) shoulder, but he should be the team's regular left fielder once he proves he's all the way back. Actually, he should play right over Jermaine Dye, but that probably won't happen. Quentin is a very good defender in a corner still capable of turning in some 25-homer seasons in the majors. His acquisition makes it more likely that Josh Fields will be the White Sox's third baseman next year, with Joe Crede getting either traded or non-tendered.

Sucks to be Joe Crede. A few weeks ago he was being looked at as replacing A-Rod, now he might get non-tendered.

**OssMan** · 12-03-2007, 05:47 PM

Nice nationals getting some you black playes who I can root for.

**FakeLaser** · 12-03-2007, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Even though they're under pressure from the Yankees to make a decision before the end of the day, the Twins are in no rush to make a Johan Santana deal, club sources told MLB.com.

As quiet as it has been on the Santana front today, it seems likely that this will linger on for a while longer. The Yankees could say they're out of it if nothing is done tonight, but no one will really believe them. They still look like the favorites, even if the New York Times is speculating that the Twins prefer to Jacoby Ellsbury to Phil Hughes.

**ClockShot** · 12-03-2007, 05:55 PM

Whew. Hearing earlier that Pettitte coming back is huge.

Busy afternoon at those winter meetings. Can anybody clarify those tampering charges against Steinbrenner?

**Skippord** · 12-03-2007, 07:30 PM

lol at the Rockies outstanding cheapness

**ClockShot** · 12-03-2007, 08:53 PM

Vets Committee votes in Bowie Kuhn, Walter O'Malley, Dick Williams, Billy Southworth, and Barney Dreyfuss to the Hall of Fame.

**MVP** · 12-03-2007, 09:24 PM

If I was Bill Smith, I would take an offer by the Yankees of Hughes/Cabrera/Kennedy or whomever else they offer over the current Red Sox offer of Crisp/Ellsbury/Lowrie because Hughes fills the hole in the rotation that Santana leaves, and I don't think that Francisco Liriano is ready to be their go-to guy (neither is Hughes, but he at least has more recent experience). With Santana's contract gone, or at least part of it, the Twins can pursue an elite CF like Rowand or Andruw Jones. Granted, Crisp can take Torii Hunter's place too, but I think the current offer by the Yankees is better than the Sox's offer unless they replace Ellsbury with Lester.

**MVP** · 12-03-2007, 09:42 PM

I just remembered the Twins traded for Delmon Young, but it looks like he's gonna start in left field right now. So their current CF is Craig Monroe. I still think they need a better bat than him.

**YOUR Hero** · 12-03-2007, 09:44 PM

Why would the Twins go after Andruw Jones when they let Torii slip through their hands? Same kind of money basically. I'd rather have Torii Hunter.

Word is toronto is going to... do fuck all. :foc: Hurray to 3rd place at best!

**Evil Vito** · 12-03-2007, 09:46 PM

WFAN's Sweeny Murti has reported the Mets may be close to landing Erik Bedard, but may have to eat Miguel Tejada's salary or get a 3rd team into the mix.

…from what I can gather, Omar Minaya has been dumping a ton of rhetoric around, back-peddling on his need to acquire a top-line starting pitcher, while suggesting that he may not be in the best position to make such a trade…

…in fact, a few people close to the team have suggested that when Minaya said last week that trading Lastings Milledge wouldn’t hurt his chances of making a trade for pitcher, what he really meant was that with or without Milledge he could not make a trade for a pitcher because he just doesn’t have the horses either way…

---

There's my Mets, always backpedaling.

**MVP** · 12-03-2007, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YOUR Hero

Why would the Twins go after Andruw Jones when they let Torii slip through their hands? Same kind of money basically. I'd rather have Torii Hunter.

Word is toronto is going to... do fuck all. :foc: Hurray to 3rd place at best!

I just left that open as a possibility. I agree with you that Hunter is better than Jones for the same amount of money.

**Evil Vito** · 12-03-2007, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YOUR Hero

Why would the Twins go after Andruw Jones when they let Torii slip through their hands? Same kind of money basically. I'd rather have Torii Hunter.

Word is toronto is going to... do fuck all. :foc: Hurray to 3rd place at best!

I've actually heard of a possible Bay-for-Burnett swap with Pittsburgh and Toronto.

**ClockShot** · 12-03-2007, 11:49 PM

Some late Santana news.

Twins are starting to call up other teams to discuss Santana. Really don't care about Sox and Yanks now.

On the Yanks front. They're taking the nonresponse from the Twins as a rejection of their offer.

12-03-2007, 10:03 AM	#561
Evil Vito President of Freedonia Posts: 58,383	And this just in: Pettitte has told the Houston Chronicle he intends to pitch for the Yankees next year. Wouldn't be surprised if they pull out of the Johan sweepstakes altogether now.

12-03-2007, 11:03 AM	#562
YOUR Hero Adminstigator Posts: 102,491	I may be alone in this, but over the last couple years, Santana has become a bit more vocal about his dislikes than he ever was. Now I'm not saying this means he's got an attitude 'problem'... yet..., but he knows his value and he seems to be becoming far more outspoken. It might mean nothing, but it also might be the beginning of something quite negative. I guess my red flag goes up when I hear or read about him saying things that hamper his team's potential success.

12-03-2007, 11:06 AM	#563
Dragon REALMENTE Posts: 11,271	Nice, Pettitte coming back is huge for the Yankees. I don't think it affects the Johan trade stuff though. If the suspected deal with Hughes goes through then a Santana, Wang, Pettitte, Joba, Kennedy/Moose rotation is pretty solid. Really though, I get the feeling Santana will be a Twin or Red Sox next year for some reason.

12-03-2007, 11:18 AM	#564
Dragon REALMENTE Posts: 11,271	Losing out on Santana would be a whole lot easier for the next year though with Pettitte returning. It would be even easier if Johan ends up staying with the Twins and walking next offseason. Pettitte-Wang-Hughes-Joba-Moose/Kennedy isn't the most reliable rotation at all, but it is passable. If Hughes pitches anything like the last month of last season and Joba transitions decently it could be good.

12-03-2007, 11:22 AM	#565
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	lol Hank is just like, yea make a decision or go screw yourself.

12-03-2007, 12:34 PM	#566
Hanso Amore You can't teach that Posts: 19,337	I dont think we will see Joba starting yet. Unless someone goes down, but if they can keep him in the pen and field 5 starters, he is going to be the lockdown set up man.

12-03-2007, 12:42 PM	#567
Dragon REALMENTE Posts: 11,271	I doubt it, we don't really have an influx of quality starters and taking him out weakens the rotation quite a bit by just going off his potential to be great in the rotation. Hopefully he starts in the rotation; the only way I could have seen him in the pen is as the closer if Rivera left.

12-03-2007, 12:57 PM	#568
FakeLaser continental drift Posts: 46,731	I think if we get Santana this year we might see Joba setting up this year, then moved to the rotation next year. Santana Wang Pettitte Kennedy Mussina CL - Rivera 8th - Joba 7th - Vizcaino Pretty fucking tough to beat.

12-03-2007, 01:03 PM	#569
Splaya 1-0 TPWW Chess Master Posts: 17,212	According to Yahoo.com, Petitte will pitch for the Yankees in 08. That's huge news for you Yankee Fans

12-03-2007, 01:19 PM	#570
Evil Vito President of Freedonia Posts: 58,383	Would feel really weird seeing Johan without his trademark goatee if he goes to the Yanks. But yeah with Pettitte returning they now have basically the same team as 2007. Now it's up to them to decide if they think Hughes and Kennedy will blossom this year or if they want the sure-thing in Santana

12-03-2007, 01:22 PM	#571
Dragon REALMENTE Posts: 11,271	I dunno, I still think Joba would be a waste in the bullpen. If he was gonna take over closer duties or something then I could see it but not as a set-up man. I think I could deal with it better if I thought Mussina could actually pitch decent enough over a full season. I don't see that though.

12-03-2007, 01:25 PM	#572
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	I think in the regular season, they should try him as a starter, but if they make the playoffs, you got to throw him out of the bullpen. Especially if he's a 4th guy

12-03-2007, 01:25 PM	#573
Evil Vito President of Freedonia Posts: 58,383	All I've heard from Winter Meetings thus far is that the A's, O's, Marlins, and Giants have been hounded with offers for pitching. (Haren, Blanton, Bedard, Willis, Cain, Lincecum) Oh, and the Dodgers are looming in on a contract with Andruw Jones...which would probably mean they are no longer interested in Cabrera and will certainly be able to nab one of the pitchers with what they are able to offer.

12-03-2007, 01:29 PM	#574
Evil Vito President of Freedonia Posts: 58,383	And according to Gammons, Billy Beane has already informed the Mets that he really isn't interested in anything they have to offer. Fuck him.

12-03-2007, 01:33 PM	#575
FakeLaser continental drift Posts: 46,731	This has been like the most dramatic offseason for the Yankees. Steinbrenner steps down. Gator gets fired. Torre gets fired. Mattingly leaves. Then there's all the uncertainty over Posada and Rivera. A-Rod opts out. Pettitte. Santana. Jesus christ.

12-03-2007, 02:03 PM	#576
Dragon REALMENTE Posts: 11,271	Yeah, I could definitely see Joba in the pen in the playoffs. Or maybe even later on in the year considering they need to keep his innings down.

12-03-2007, 02:06 PM	#577
Evil Vito President of Freedonia Posts: 58,383	Seems to be two thoughts coming from the Mets camp now: either trade any player short of Wright or Reyes to get an ace...or try to swing deals for lesser pitchers still under contract for awhile (Arroyo being a name brought up alot) I dunno....they need an ace and all but it would kinda suck if they dealt Maine or Perez or something only to leave us with the same void to fill

12-03-2007, 02:06 PM	#578
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	yea, I first I was kind of against even having him as a starter and then I thought about it. The Yankees don't really need a set up guy that much throughout the season anyway because they score tons of runs. Yea, they'll be close games at times, but when you weigh it, I think Joba is more valuable as a starter

12-03-2007, 02:06 PM	#579
MVP Mas Vagina Porfavor Posts: 11,343	According to SI.com's Jon Heyman, it looks very likely that Santana could get traded to the Red Sox or Yankees today. Theo, don't trade Ellsbury

12-03-2007, 02:08 PM	#580
Evil Vito President of Freedonia Posts: 58,383	LOL now the Twins are seeking tampering charges against Hank

12-03-2007, 02:10 PM	#581
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	where are you reading all this Vito? You have like Insider or something?

12-03-2007, 02:13 PM	#582
Evil Vito President of Freedonia Posts: 58,383	I don't have Insider personally but there's people on all the message boards leaking articles from it. As for my Mets info, I use MetsBlog.com they've got a rep at the meetings feeding information. Also, according to MLB Radio, the D’Backs will soon announce that they have traded OF Carlos Quentin to the White Sox for 20–year-old 1B Chris Carter.

12-03-2007, 02:16 PM	#583
Dragon REALMENTE Posts: 11,271	I dunno. I just can't see the Twins trading with the Yanks for some reason. I think Hughes would probably even be overpaying considering the only big piece Boston will include is Lester or Ellsbury, not both. I still think that a Kennedy, Melky, Tabata, Horne/Marquez/other deal would be better than Boston's. Major league ready starter in Kennedy, ML CF in Melky, high ceiling outfield prospect in Tabata and a near-ready starter in Horne. I dunno, I guess I'm just holding on to hope that Hughes sticks around. As unlikely as that seems right now if we want Santana.

12-03-2007, 03:03 PM	#584
Evil Vito President of Freedonia Posts: 58,383	Now the Indians have said the Mets don't have enough to get Cliff Lee. CLIFF LEE ffs So that's Lee, Haren, and Blanton all seemingly off-limits and I don't really see them landing any other available starter. Hello, Carlos Silva and Bartolo Colon!

12-03-2007, 03:56 PM	#585
Evil Vito President of Freedonia Posts: 58,383	Word has it the Rays are about to trade Elijah Dukes to the Nationals. If the Rays get more for Dukes than what the Mets got for Milledge I'm gonna puke.

12-03-2007, 05:22 PM	#586
Evil Vito President of Freedonia Posts: 58,383	K so the Nats wound up giving a minor leaguer to be named later for Dukes. No big deal. So the Red Sox, Yankees, Mets, Phillies, Dodgers, Angels, Mariners, and Diamondbacks have all been linked to talks with Bedard. Shit, I bet you can likely rule out those first two teams...and Bedard is still prolly gonna cost more than Santana.

12-03-2007, 05:47 PM	#589
OssMan The Classic Dylan Staples Posts: 51,538	Nice nationals getting some you black playes who I can root for.

12-03-2007, 05:55 PM	#591
ClockShot TPWW Fire Pro Champ Posts: 34,001	Whew. Hearing earlier that Pettitte coming back is huge. Busy afternoon at those winter meetings. Can anybody clarify those tampering charges against Steinbrenner?

12-03-2007, 07:30 PM	#592
Skippord I'm Mr. White Christmas Posts: 44,526	lol at the Rockies outstanding cheapness

12-03-2007, 08:53 PM	#593
ClockShot TPWW Fire Pro Champ Posts: 34,001	Vets Committee votes in Bowie Kuhn, Walter O'Malley, Dick Williams, Billy Southworth, and Barney Dreyfuss to the Hall of Fame.