I hate the IWC sometimes...

[JT]

It figures that it would be a select few that can take something like a Jericho title reign and turn it from my first mark out moment in years to calling it another mistake on the part of the WWE. Last night I watch an event that I only cared to watch because I had the chance to see it for free. I had no interest in the matches, I hated the scramble concept, and even HBK vs. Jericho wasn't doing it for me. Yet in the end, it was one of my favorite shows in recent memory, left a good taste in my mouth, and the first time I've genually wanted to see Raw in more than a year.

However, I come on here and listen to the TPWW master's of discussion and debate moan over tiny details that somehow don't make sense to them...

"It figures that WWE would make CM Punk lose the title in such a weak fashion"

Oh, you mean where he was attacked by 4 guys and finished off with a move that usually places people off tv for months. Yea, really weak. Really does nothing for CM Punks career...except set him up in a program with Orton that can draw money without a World title in the picture, while at the same time pitting him against multiple wrestlers that will not only build a decent feud but strenthen CM Punk's character at the same time. Yea, WWE really dropped the ball on this idea.

"The way that Jericho won the championship make sense. Wasn't he destroyed earlier in the night?"

Yea, and Owen Hart beat Bret Hart at WMX, just a hour or 2 before Bret won the WWF Championship later in the night. Granted Owen didn't beat Bret to a pulp, but under the circumstances it worked. Jericho sold the injuries, was laid out through most of the match, and won when the opportunity presented itself. The match concept sucked to begin with, and whoever was winning wasn't proving anything. However, who better to win it then a heel who will do anything necessary to build his legacy in the WWE. As of fact, since HBK beat the crap out of Jericho earlier makes me love the title win more because it's kind of like spitting in HBK's eye. It's to almost say "hey HBK, you may have beat me up a bit, but you're career is still over, and I'm the World Champion". I love it...and literally bowed down with my friends to the new champ in the sneak victory.

"Blah blah blah"

Seriously, you piss me off sometimes you jaded fucks. I mean I bitch quite a bit myself, but some of this shit is stuff you people wanted forever. Jericho won a championship, CM Punk in in a decent program and didn't get jobbed out, and the show was pretty good. Tonight is the first Raw I've wanted to see in awhile, and I love that there is a thread on here about how people have no interest in seeing the show tonight.

I love you people.

[FourFifty]

Originally Posted by JT Kool I love you people.

We love you too.

[addy2hotty]

I believe that Bret Hart co-won a Royal Rumble with one working leg.

Just proof that the IWC are never happy. Punk's title reign hasn't worked, Jericho's character fit perfectly the way he won the title - no-one wants to see Batista, JBL or Mysterio as Champ and Kane is busy destroying Rey's soul.

Rey looked good though, didn't he - just a few weeks after being, seemingly, in a SAW type situation.

[Fox]

There are always naysayers and negative bastards who will talk anything down. There are people at my school who will argue for days about how The Dark Knight was slow, boring, plodding and didn't make enough sense, despite evidence to the contrary.

They're called "haters" and you just have to learn to ignore them. They try to take the shine out of your brand new car. Fuck them. They don't like ANYTHING.

[TerranRich]

THANK YOU, JT Kool.

Seriously, people just need to shut the fuck up about this. It's awesome. Enjoy it for what it is. It does nothing negative to Punk's awesomeness either. Or TBK's.

[Suicidal Icon]

There will always be something for people to complain about. Seems to be easier than pointing out the good.

And I totally disagree with you.

[Juan]

Originally Posted by JT Kool It figures that it would be a select few that can take something like a Jericho title reign and turn it from my first mark out moment in years to calling it another mistake on the part of the WWE. Last night I watch an event that I only cared to watch because I had the chance to see it for free. I had no interest in the matches, I hated the scramble concept, and even HBK vs. Jericho wasn't doing it for me. Yet in the end, it was one of my favorite shows in recent memory, left a good taste in my mouth, and the first time I've genually wanted to see Raw in more than a year. However, I come on here and listen to the TPWW master's of discussion and debate moan over tiny details that somehow don't make sense to them... "It figures that WWE would make CM Punk lose the title in such a weak fashion" Oh, you mean where he was attacked by 4 guys and finished off with a move that usually places people off tv for months. Yea, really weak. Really does nothing for CM Punks career...except set him up in a program with Orton that can draw money without a World title in the picture, while at the same time pitting him against multiple wrestlers that will not only build a decent feud but strenthen CM Punk's character at the same time. Yea, WWE really dropped the ball on this idea. "The way that Jericho won the championship make sense. Wasn't he destroyed earlier in the night?" Yea, and Owen Hart beat Bret Hart at WMX, just a hour or 2 before Bret won the WWF Championship later in the night. Granted Owen didn't beat Bret to a pulp, but under the circumstances it worked. Jericho sold the injuries, was laid out through most of the match, and won when the opportunity presented itself. The match concept sucked to begin with, and whoever was winning wasn't proving anything. However, who better to win it then a heel who will do anything necessary to build his legacy in the WWE. As of fact, since HBK beat the crap out of Jericho earlier makes me love the title win more because it's kind of like spitting in HBK's eye. It's to almost say "hey HBK, you may have beat me up a bit, but you're career is still over, and I'm the World Champion". I love it...and literally bowed down with my friends to the new champ in the sneak victory. "Blah blah blah" Seriously, you piss me off sometimes you jaded fucks. I mean I bitch quite a bit myself, but some of this shit is stuff you people wanted forever. Jericho won a championship, CM Punk in in a decent program and didn't get jobbed out, and the show was pretty good. Tonight is the first Raw I've wanted to see in awhile, and I love that there is a thread on here about how people have no interest in seeing the show tonight. I love you people.

This is exactly how I felt last night after the PPV. You, sir, are 100% correct.

[thedamndest]

Agree to disagree.

[thedamndest]

Though I am pleased Jericho is champion. I just wish they would have gone about it better.

[Afterlife]

How?

[U-Warrior]

I liked all of it.

But I think that "are you watching tonight" thread is more about the fact that monday night football starts tonight.

[KYR]

JT makes some very good points (particularly those relating to storylines).

Makes sense and, in the main, I have to agree.

Scotty Goldman should be champ. Come on, he wrestled for the porn fed of the IWC: ROH

[Dorkchop]

People on the internet will find a way to bitch about anything. I love and dislike parts about Jericho's new title victory. I'm happy he has the belt, sad CM Punk didn't lose it in a nice feud, but am excited to see if they get a couple of great matches out of this. Jericho holding the title makes me happy.

[TerranRich]

Honestly, and I know I'll catch a lot of shit for this... I think they need this time for the purpose of building CM Punk up properly. Having him go over Randy Orton in a classic feud over a period of months would do this, and then he can win the belt once again, this time the "right" way.

[MCEazy]

Nothing is ever good enough for the IWC unfortunately, I didn't see much in Punk as champ and am glad to see it on a monster heel whom hasn't held the title a million times in the past 3 years.

[FourFifty]

Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post.

Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post.

Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post.

Noid Post. Noid Post.


Noid Post.[/thread]

And by Noid's standards, the problem is solved and Val Venis is the first person in the hall of fame while holding the WHC.

But all Noid Post cracks aside, people are unhappy by nature.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Why did you bring me into this, FourFifty?

I agree with you, JT. Some of the creative decisions at Unforgiven were awesome. CM Punk gets out of his title reign without being made to look weak, and now gets to win the belt back sometime next year looking like a million bucks; Jericho is to the top man of the flagship show; and The Brian Kendrick was WWE Champion for a few minutes.

You have to accept that some people will always disagree with you, though. I'd question whether those people actually saw the PPV, and aren't just objecting in theory, but things are what they are sometimes.

[Londoner]

100% agree JT, other than a few things you didn't like about the ppv. People just bitch about everything, i don't take much notice of it anymore.

[TerranRich]

Originally Posted by FourFifty Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post. Noid Post.[/thread] And by Noid's standards, the problem is solved and Val Venis is the first person in the hall of fame while holding the WHC. But all Noid Post cracks aside, people are unhappy by nature.

Dude, seriously, what is your problem? Why even bring him up?

[BigDaddyCool]

Can someone explain to me how being stripped of a title after being attacked before a defence makes CM Punk look like a strong champion?

[Londoner]

He was attacked by more than one person you know?

[BigDaddyCool]

Being attacked by 4 guys then being stripped of your title doesn't make CM Punk look like a strong champion, or a million bucks. It makes him look like a victim of luck and curcumstance. Especially with the way he won the title in the first place.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool Being attacked by 4 guys then being stripped of your title doesn't make CM Punk look like a strong champion, or a million bucks. It makes him look like a victim of luck and curcumstance. Especially with the way he won the title in the first place.

BDC, do you know what luck and circumstance mean? There was nothing "lucky" or "circumstantial" about what happened to CM Punk. The beat-down was deliberate, succinct and had a purpose: Take out CM Punk. To me, it seems very similar to when Austin got hit by a car.

Also, the way CM Punk won in the first place? Defeating the current World Heavyweight Champion, the current United States Champion, then WWE Tag Team Champion, Mr. Kennedy and MVP in a Ladder Match and then cashing in his shot at the smartest time possible taking full advantage of an opportunity presented to him?

[BigDaddyCool]

Noid, I'm going to be polite about this, because I'm trying something new.

CM Punk didn't loose the title in a test of skill, he was ready for the match, then he is attacked before the match. That sounds unlucky (unlucky is still luck). Then, instead of postoning the match or anything, they strip his title, which is retarded.

In any real sport, is a champion was attacked and unable to compete for the night, they would reschedule the match as long as the champion could defend his or her title within a certain time period. For exmaple, in boxing a champion has to defend their at least once every 180 days. So if something happened like, say someone came and beat the defending champion up right before the match and he was in no condition to defend his title, as long as there is plenty of time to reschedule the match and let him heal, they would simply postpone it.

Now, I know wrestling is fake, but they pretend to be real, so they should follow some sort of rule or else it doesn't make any sence. Now from what I understand, WWE has had a 90 day rule in the past, where a champion must defend his title ever 90 days, or he or she can be stripped of their title. CM Punk just defended his title at Summer Slam on 8/17/08, which was 21 days prior. Punk was attacked, thus unable to compete for the night. So he would have had 69 days to heal up and defend his title at a later date. Given the fact that Punk was just beat up, and from what I understand not seriously injured and looks like he will be competing soon, I thought I heard there is a cage match he is scheduled to be part of in the next few weeks. He could have easily come back and still defended his title in the time frame given. But no, they took the title off him with out him defending it. There for a victim of luck and circumstance.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool Noid, I'm going to be polite about this, because I'm trying something new. CM Punk didn't loose the title in a test of skill, he was ready for the match, then he is attacked before the match. That sounds unlucky (unlucky is still luck). Then, instead of postoning the match or anything, they strip his title, which is retarded. In any real sport, is a champion was attacked and unable to compete for the night, they would reschedule the match as long as the champion could defend his or her title within a certain time period. For exmaple, in boxing a champion has to defend their at least once every 180 days. So if something happened like, say someone came and beat the defending champion up right before the match and he was in no condition to defend his title, as long as there is plenty of time to reschedule the match and let him heal, they would simply postpone it. Now, I know wrestling is fake, but they pretend to be real, so they should follow some sort of rule or else it doesn't make any sence. Now from what I understand, WWE has had a 90 day rule in the past, where a champion must defend his title ever 90 days, or he or she can be stripped of their title. CM Punk just defended his title at Summer Slam on 8/17/08, which was 21 days prior. Punk was attacked, thus unable to compete for the night. So he would have had 69 days to heal up and defend his title at a later date. Given the fact that Punk was just beat up, and from what I understand not seriously injured and looks like he will be competing soon, I thought I heard there is a cage match he is scheduled to be part of in the next few weeks. He could have easily come back and still defended his title in the time frame given. But no, they took the title off him with out him defending it. There for a victim of luck and circumstance.

I appreciate you being polite, but I think you are way out-dated with this. The 90-day rule has not existed since ever. Now, whenever a champion cannot make a defense of the title, he is stripped of the belt.

Why does the WWE do this? Because there are PPVs, promised matches and a responsibility to put on the best show possible to the fans. A wrestler who gets injured (especially near the top) might be out of luck, but it'd be foolish for a General Manager to cop-out on a big promised match-up.

Are you telling me that you honestly would not have complained if Mike Adamle had come out and said "Punk is injured, so this match you paid for isn't going to happen"? It's a storyline that needs something to happen.

I still don't get your luck and circumstance points. If you're talking kayfabe, Punk is a victim of Orton and gang. That is all. If you're talking as far as the backstage dealings of the business go, then Punk just got shifted out of the World Heavyweight Title scene for another major feud.

What you seem to be saying is that Punk was unlucky because a rule that hasn't existed in years wasn't upheld?

[BigDaddyCool]

The rule has existed. Both Cena and Edge had their titles stripped from the because there were both injured and could in no way shape or form defend their titles in the 90 day time period, and that was just last year. BTW, I am talking kayfabe. As far as Punk being a victim of luck, he wasn't (in kayfabe) scheduled to get beat up before the match. He wasn't planning on it, it was out of his control, therefore that is circumstance and luck, not skill and free will.

Also, Adamle did come out and say the match everyone paid for won't be happening. The match people paid for had CM Punk in it, not Jericho. Another option would be have a 4 way match between the still healthy guy to see who would get a shot again Punk when he was healthy.

[Xero]

I'd just like to point out it's not exactly good business to bait and switch something like this where the leader of the brand is headlining your $40 PPV and he doesn't wrestle despite being advertised for weeks.

At the very least, the angle should have happened on RAW and the change announced before the PPV went live.

[BigDaddyCool]

If CM Punk was really injured, it would be one thing, but since this is all kayfabe, it is shitty booking. It pisses me off.

[thedamndest]

If anything, Punk's booking as champion has been consistent. He didn't really beat anybody to get the championship, his defenses consisted of beating JBL week after week, and he didn't really lose the championship either. There is a fine line between underdog and just plain underwhelming.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Dorkchop People on the internet will find a way to bitch about anything.

You mean like this topic?

BAWWWWWWWW Some faceless douchebags on the internet are killing my enjoyment!

I know he's bitching about people bitching, and two wrongs always make a right, but the guy is actually complaining that his enjoyment is being affected by the dissatisfaction of others. Nobody has that kind of power unless you give it to them.

[darkpower]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight You mean like this topic? BAWWWWWWWW Some faceless douchebags on the internet are killing my enjoyment! I know he's bitching about people bitching, and two wrongs always make a right, but the guy is actually complaining that his enjoyment is being affected by the dissatisfaction of others. Nobody has that kind of power unless you give it to them.

Like you never pout and bitch about anyone on the internet, do you?

You don't actually post your spazz outs, you take it to the rep sheet.

[darkpower]

By the way, JT, you're 100% correct. The IWC is NEVER HAPPY!! We've known this for years. Always finding a reason to bitch about anything, even when the thing they bitch about is what they wanted to begin with.

My figuring is: We're not happy unless we bitch, because of this equation:

IWC + BITCHING + INTERNETS = PAGE HITS

[IC Champion]

Originally Posted by thedamndest If anything, Punk's booking as champion has been consistent. He didn't really beat anybody to get the championship, his defenses consisted of beating JBL week after week, and he didn't really lose the championship either. There is a fine line between underdog and just plain underwhelming.

I agree with the statement above.

[darkpower]

Originally Posted by thedamndest If anything, Punk's booking as champion has been consistent. He didn't really beat anybody to get the championship, his defenses consisted of beating JBL week after week, and he didn't really lose the championship either. There is a fine line between underdog and just plain underwhelming.

See "The Booking Of Rey Mysterio's Title Reign" circa 2006.

Again, it's not that any of these champions that aren't 300 pounds can't make good champions, it's that the WWE seems to not want them to look like creditable champs for some reason. And then the IWC bitches because they want the title OFF of the person the WWE books badly and fucks up the cred of, completely ignoring that it's not the champ's fault he's not looking like a creditable champ.

Why the IWC seems to be giving the WWE booking a free pass when these types of champ reigns happen is beyond me!

[BigDaddyCool]

Originally Posted by darkpower See "The Booking Of Rey Mysterio's Title Reign" circa 2006. Again, it's not that any of these champions that aren't 300 pounds can't make good champions, it's that the WWE seems to not want them to look like creditable champs for some reason. And then the IWC bitches because they want the title OFF of the person the WWE books badly and fucks up the cred of, completely ignoring that it's not the champ's fault he's not looking like a creditable champ. Why the IWC seems to be giving the WWE booking a free pass when these types of champ reigns happen is beyond me!

Besides for this Mysterio title reign (I have no idea what you are talking about, he never had a title riegn) I agree. WWE doesn't try to book anyone besides Bat, Cena, HHH, and Undertaker as strong.

Part of the problem is that there are no clean wins anymore. The only way to build someone up, is have them win cleanly over other guys. But everyone has to have a fucking unbeaten streak (not a winning streak, an unbeaten streak). So no one looks good.

[darkpower]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool Besides for this Mysterio title reign (I have no idea what you are talking about, he never had a title riegn)

I'm sorry, I meant "The Booking Of The Ghost Of Eddie Gurrero's Title Reign" circa 2006.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool The rule has existed. Both Cena and Edge had their titles stripped from the because there were both injured and could in no way shape or form defend their titles in the 90 day time period, and that was just last year. BTW, I am talking kayfabe. As far as Punk being a victim of luck, he wasn't (in kayfabe) scheduled to get beat up before the match. He wasn't planning on it, it was out of his control, therefore that is circumstance and luck, not skill and free will. Also, Adamle did come out and say the match everyone paid for won't be happening. The match people paid for had CM Punk in it, not Jericho. Another option would be have a 4 way match between the still healthy guy to see who would get a shot again Punk when he was healthy.

I think you are making up ths specifics of why Edge and John Cena were stripped of their titles. No "90-day" limit was mentioned. They were just injured, and forfeited the belt. Also, Punk wasn't stripped of the title. He was officially World Heavyweight Champion when he went into the match, but he just was not healthy enough to compete, so a fifth man went in there and essentially wrote-off his chances of defending.

Randy Orton made it an inevitability that Punk lost his World Heavyweight Championship at Unforgiven. It's not like Punk chose not to compete because of a minor inconvenience. There is going to be major heat there. Punk will get to run through The Princes of Pro-Wrestling, and look like a star as the WWE builds him up correctly. The moving of the title off Punk implies that the WWE wants to keep building him, which I though people around these parts would be happy with.

The biggest difference between Rey Mysterio's title reign and CM Punk's title reign is this: Rey Mysterio was pretty much getting booed when he was World Heavyweight Champion; CM Punk has gotten consistently more popular over the weeks. Punk's World Heavyweight Title reign has achieved what it needed to, and now they are switching the belt over to the best heel in the WWE, who is involved in the best program in the WWE, all the while keeping Punk from being pinned and making him look like a huge victim heading into his new top-tier feud.

If Punk had lost the WHT any other way, he'd have looked like a joke. It'd look like the WWE withdrawing from pushing Punk, and the whole "he always manages to scrape through" thing would be deflated, and Punk's title reign would have had nothing but a few months going for it. This way, Punk can claim that he should still be World Heavyweight Champion if there was justice in the world.

[Afterlife]

I do recall the mentioning of the 90-day deal with Cena and Edge. However, I will also point out that was under different kayfabe management.

[BigDaddyCool]

Thank you AL.

Also Noid, shut up, you are dumb and do not get it.