Raycroft

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I dont even like hockey by Raycroft > Canada

thank u

Nah he's been pretty solid against a ton of American teams too

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

yea but america rules

[Arashi Kage]

Originally Posted by sTiMa34 yea but america rules

Really? America rules?

um, the leafs just beat raycroft thank you.

[VonErich Lives]

the kids "standing on his head" to borrow a term...

He keeps playing like this, the Bruins go all the way.

Hockey is the only sport where 1 player can completely change the outcome of a game.

Guess VEL doesn't watch basketball.

...or a pitcher throw a gem of a game. (baseball)

...or a quarter back disect a defence (football)

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I dunno about Football and Basketball having the outcome changed by strictly one guy the same way as hockey and baseball

[MoRcHeEbA]

he wassn't better today

[VonErich Lives]

Originally Posted by YOUR Hero Guess VEL doesn't watch basketball.

Let's see, 10 guys, all with equal chance to touch the ball, and defened the ball. Yes, someone can get "hot" but you can't compare it to a goalie, who solo can change the outcome of a game.

Originally Posted by YOUR Hero ...or a pitcher throw a gem of a game. (baseball)

Ok, a pitcher throws the best 9 innings of his life, strikes everyone out, but his team doesn't score a run, eventually he tires in extra innings, gets pulled and they lose one nothing.

Originally Posted by YOUR Hero ...or a quarter back disect a defence (football)

ah yes, a QB throws the perfect pass, marches the team down field, perfect spiral, Touch... oh wait, the WR droped it.

See Hero, your missing the point, but I understand the need to boost your post count and all.

a Goalie in hockey, much like that kickyball sport, can be on a shit team, and can change the game by shutting down the other team. I can see a close match from a baseball pitcher but he has to rely on his defense, he gives up an easy out pop-up and they blow the play, it's not his fault, he can lose 1-0 w/o giving up a single hit or earned run, but you can't compare a QB or Basketball player the same.

Now given, a hockey Goalie can't score, but he can single handedly keep the other team from scoring, yeah, a baseball pitcher has that ability, but even in a no-hitter, a batter or two usualy put a ball in play and it's up to the fielders to make the play.

[The Icon of Elisim]

VEL you are totally contradicting yourself.

A goalie needs a defense and offense just as much as a pitcher

You put no defense in front of a goalie and it doesn't matter how good he is he will get killed. You give a pitcher a catcher and he has a way better chance of winning a game.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I think baseball and hockey are the only 2 sports when a guy can really pretty muchsinglehandly win or lose a game

Raycroft played good even tho they lost..I know one of the goals wasn't his fault atleast

[asphyXy]

A goalie cannot win a game singlehandedly. If Brodeur played for the Rangers, he'd suck.

[asphyXy]

However, if you're pitching a perfect game, the fielders can have a clusterfuck at third base and it wouldn't matter.

Baseball is boring.

[VonErich Lives]

Originally Posted by The Icon of Elisim VEL you are totally contradicting yourself. A goalie needs a defense and offense just as much as a pitcher You put no defense in front of a goalie and it doesn't matter how good he is he will get killed. You give a pitcher a catcher and he has a way better chance of winning a game.

TIOE, if a goalie stops every shot, and has an incrideble game, it doesn't matter how the rest of the team plays.

Now say a pitcher is throwing a great game, routine fly ball to center, the CF drops it, it rolls to the wall, batter ends up on 2nd, then it happens again.

The final score could read 1-0, no hits, 2 errors.

Not the pitchers fault.

[The Icon of Elisim]

Well if we are going to start to just name off scenarios that don't prove much of a point

How about a goalie stoping all his shots but leaves the net for a delayed penalty, puck takes a weird bounce off the boards and goes in. 1-0

VEL is just being stupid.

[VonErich Lives]

Originally Posted by The Icon of Elisim Well if we are going to start to just name off scenarios that don't prove much of a point How about a goalie stoping all his shots but leaves the net for a delayed penalty, puck takes a weird bounce off the boards and goes in. 1-0

How do the scenario's not prove a point?

And clearly, where talking about when the player is actually in the game.

How often has the Goalie left for a delayed penalty and the pucks gone in? not often, no where near a ball player making an error, or a slow throw, all things the pitcher has no control over.

[Adder]

Defensemen put the puck in their own net, off their stick, their skate, etc. Refs make bad calls leading to goals. The opposing teams player screens the goalie or bumps him. One could sit here and make tons of scenarios.

[VonErich Lives]

Originally Posted by Adder Defensemen put the puck in their own net, off their stick, their skate, etc. Refs make bad calls leading to goals. The opposing teams player screens the goalie or bumps him. One could sit here and make tons of scenarios.

Right, and if the Goalie blocks all those... there's no goal, a defenseman can only put a puck in the net if it gets by the Goalie.

Look, I'm not saying that in hockey, it's all about the goalie an no one else does anything, I'm saying that a Goalie has more opurtinity to control the outcome of a game then any other position player in any sport, w/ the exception of a soccer goalie who serves the same role (and water polo, lacross) any other sports w/ "Goalies".

Baseball pitcher would be close, but as said, he can do everything he's supposed to and another player on the team can blow it... droped 3rd strike, passed balls, error's in the field.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

ONCE AGAIN

Raycroft > Canada

thank u

[The Icon of Elisim]

Stima no one is talking about Raycroft, this is about pitching vs goaltending

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

yea that is a really important issue too

Lets not forget that Raycroft was born in a place called Canada. Belleville if I remember correctly.

[VonErich Lives]

Originally Posted by Adder The point people are trying to make VEL is other teams have players that can decide the outcome of a game just as much as a goalie. You keep throwing out examples of why you claim a pitcher or QB aren't as relevant, then you go and dismiss other peoples examples in regards to goaltending.

I've seen that point, and I disagree, same way they disagree w/ my view, but rather then giving examples, responding, discussing, Hero turns to name calling.

I do agree, that Pitchers and QB's have a big part in the outcome of a game, and I'm not dismissing there examples, I'm just saying it's not the same.

Completing a pass requires 2 people, a QB to throw and someone to catch it. If the other person doesn't do their job (catch) then the best QB in the world doesn't matter.

A goalie on the other hand, while good defense helps, a goali can have horrible defense, be facing a 3 on 0 breakaway and make a great save, this doesn't require the work of anyone but the goalie.

The closest to this would be a baseball pitcher, because if they strike everyone out, they are essentially doing the same as a goalie, however, it still requires a catcher to catch the ball and if the ball is hit, the fielders to make their regular plays.

and yes, I understand a Goalie rarely scores, and at the most, might start a breakaway w/ a key pass.

[AareDub]

*jumps into discussion*

Even if a goalie stops every single shot he faces, if his teammates don't score a single goal then his performance is useless. Theoretically they'd go into several OT's until one goalie is too fatigued to play. The replacement goalie gets put in and lets a goal go by. They lose 1-0. Even the other team's goalie (if he's still in the game) doesn't get credit for being a hero, that press will go to the guy who scored the goal ending the longest OT ever.

[Lara Emily]

Originally Posted by YOUR Hero Lets not forget that Raycroft was born in a place called Canada. Belleville if I remember correctly.

Yup so really Raycroft = Canada heh.

[The Icon of Elisim]

If you are going to talk about groundballs and pop flys and the such in a debate about the value of a pitcher vs a goalie then you have to include the goalie's defense too. You can't just toss out 1 defense and keep the other for the sake of the arguement.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

haha I thought Raycroft was American

I guess not...oh well

still tho

Raycroft > Canada

thank u

[Y2Ant]

nice 1 stima

[VonErich Lives]

Originally Posted by The Icon of Elisim If you are going to talk about groundballs and pop flys and the such in a debate about the value of a pitcher vs a goalie then you have to include the goalie's defense too. You can't just toss out 1 defense and keep the other for the sake of the arguement.

I'm not tossing out because it's defense.

I'm tossing out, anything that rely's on a 2nd person, something he(or she) can't control.

IE: you can stop every puck, but you can't make your offense score.

IE: You can throw a perfect spiral to a wide open WR, but you can't make him catch.

That's where I see the difference.

[The Icon of Elisim]

Thus your whole arguement about outfielders dropping balls is invalid, which is what I was saying

[VonErich Lives]

Originally Posted by The Icon of Elisim Thus your whole arguement about outfielders dropping balls is invalid, which is what I was saying

Ok, I think I see what your saying here... Let's see if I'm right cause I "might" agree w/ you.

If a pitcher does a proper job, the batter never make contact, which takes the OF or IF out of the situation.

However, you'll still have a catcher, and even if the pitcher makes every hitter miss, the catcher still must catch or apply a tag is missed. I know however that passed balls are rare.

So, I would (I thought I said it before, if not my bad) agree that a baseball pitcher is as close to a goalie in hockey in terms of controling the outcome of a game.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

lol WTF Raycroft

[MoRcHeEbA]

I wouldn't blame raycroft tonight, Boston as a team didn't show up

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

yea they played like shit

LOL at another guy from Montreal taking a dive

They are like the biggest pussies of all time

[VonErich Lives]

Originally Posted by MoRcHeEbA I wouldn't blame raycroft tonight, Boston as a team didn't show up

No crap... although, raycroft did look like he let us some soft goals...

Cheebs, question for you, on the 3rd goal, thortons stick got taken out by the ref. The player w/ puck was in front of him, if thorton has droped his gloves and grabbed the guys jersey to pull him down, would it have just been a penalty shot? or would there have been something else?

and yeah, WTF, did the Habs go to acting school? I loved the one who flopped on the ice and the refs wouldn't even stop for the "injury". Then the one Thorton hit, yeah, he hit him, but not to drop him like that...

Also, WTF on the double penalty on Thorton... he gets checked into the goalie and called for interferance?

1 game away canucks fans....... 1 game away!!!