Is it better to be a mark?

[Marc the Smark]

JOHN DALY: WOULDN'T IT BE SIMPLER TO BE A MARK
By: Various Writers
4/25/2004 12:20:00 PM

A couple weeks ago on NWA/TNA, there was a match between Jeff Jarrett and James Storm which turned into a brawl through the crowd. At one point, Jarrett was about to hit Storm with a chair. A female fan in the audience grabbed onto the chair to protect Storm. I don't believe this was a case of a fan who was planted. I don't believe this was the case of a fan who had a little too much to drink. What I believe I saw was a 100% legit "mark".

Now it's important for those of you reading to understand that I'm not being derogatory in my labeling of this fan. I actually think it's great. Part of me is honestly jealous. With the invention of the internet, and the overall disregard of kayfabe in the public eye, marks have become all but extinct. Now I'm sure most of us could argue all day over whether the internet has done more harm than good to the wrestling business. It's a complicated topic by itself, but regardless of your opinion, I ask one question... Wouldn't it be simpler to be a mark?

The term "ignorance is bliss" is a phrase that is usually used in a less that flattering context. However, in the case of wrestling fans, isn't it true? Think about it? Would any of us have enjoyed Hogan vs. Andre at Wrestlemania 3 nearly as much if we were consumed with concepts like "work-rate"? Would the formation of the original NWO ever had nearly the impact if fans were privy to, and cared about, contract negotiations?

There is a reason why many of us look back at wrestling from the old days so fondly. Was it really so good back then? Maybe, but there's another explanation... We believed. I believed that Hulk Hogan was seriously injured by King Kong Bundy prior to Wrestlemania 2. I believed that George Steele was in love with Elizabeth. Heck, I even believed Kamala was a cannibal (although I may have not known what that word meant at the time). It was a very simple concept? Wrestling promotions would deliver a product. We either enjoyed it or we didn't, but we judged the product on the merits of the product itself.

A lot of people would argue that it's up to wrestling promotions to "make us believe". This is a very good point. I think that all wrestling fans, deep down, have at least a little trace of "mark" left in them. Otherwise, they probably wouldn't still be interested in watching at all. But isn't that part of the problem? There really is only that "trace" left for many fans. "Smart" fans have become so passionate over the "behind the scenes" stories of wrestling, that I believe they've let the mark inside them become smaller and smaller.

Now I know my opinions may sound a little odd considering that you're reading this column on a wrestling news site. I admit that I'm a 'smart' fan. I have that unexplainable compulsion for that 'behind the scenes' wrestling news. Some people have referred to that phenomenon as the 'the sickness'. That's a very accurate term. We, as wrestling fans have become far removed from the same audience promotions catered to even just seven or eight years ago. I completely understand why guys like Vince McMahon have such negative feelings toward fans like us. We've made their job that much harder. At the same time, we're a loud and increasing demographic which can't be ignored. But once again, I'll go back to my original question? Would't it be simpler to be a mark?

In the old days, when a large monster-like wrestler walked to the ring and demolished a popular smaller wrestler, we recognized the larger man as a threat, and worry about the health of the smaller man. Now, we complain about "heat" been stolen. In the old days, when a 'good guy' came to the ring, we'd cheer. Now, we make snide remarks about how much of an a**hole the guy is backstage. In the old days, we didn't know or care about salaries, backstage demeanor, backstage politics, bookers, or buy-rates. Again, we cared about what we saw in front of our eyes.

Today, it's become harder for us to honestly judge the quality of a product by the product itself. Because of this, many of us have become less of fans and more of critics. The reality is that this will probably not change. In fact, it will probably get worse. Many of us may feel that we're closer to the product these days. I feel that we've drifted farther from it.

Now I'm not saying we should just suddenly 'dummy up' and forget that wrestling is fake. That's impossible. But ask yourselves a question? Why is it that we don't scrutinize other forms of entertainment this way? I'm a HUGE fan of the television show '24'. Yet I don't let actor salaries, network executives, and Hollywood gossip sour my thoughts on the program. I judge the product on what I see of it, one hour a week. Why can't we take that approach to wrestling? I think we can. I think we should.

So, the next time you're at a wrestling event and see an actual mark, think twice before making fun of them? They're most likely having a better time than you are.

(1wrestling.com)

I think this article is right on. What do you think? I wish "kayfabe" had never been broken, and when I'm watching wrestling I wish I were 10. It's not only that we're "smarter" now, most of us anyway, but now we also analyze more. And the more things we analyze, the less we can enjoy.

[KillerWolf]

good topic. rep for you

[Marc the Smark]

Originally Posted by shock&awe good topic. rep for you

Thanks. I'm trying

(But nobody's told me what "rep" means.)

[Kane Knight]

People are too quick to disassociate themselve from the word "mark."

I look at it from the other side. I'm not concerned about workrate because I'm a "smark," rather, I get called a "smark" because I'm concerned about workrate. I'm concerned about things like workrate because I like entertainment, and good workers are entertaining.

What's the fun in life if you just think everything is great? without identifying bad moments, where's there a point in aidentifying good?

[BasicThuganomics]

Yeah, there is nothing to replace the feeling of watching Wrestling as a kid and just being in complete awe of people like Hogan, Andre, Savage, and others. I wish that I could be like that again.

But in a way, knowing what I found out about Wrestling through the internet has in some ways made me appreciate the wrestlers themselves more than I ever could as a little kid. I respect them for the shit they go through backstage, the hard life they lead, the struggle it has taken to get to the WWE, and for how difficult it is to be a sports entertainer. I respect them because I know that even with all of the shit they've gone through, they are still busting their asses to entertain the fans, whether it is cynical smarks or gullable marks.

But I do have to agree with the article for the most part. It was pretty well written with alot of good points.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Red Hot Scott Thanks. I'm trying (But nobody's told me what "rep" means.)

The green bars to your left. They're under your name.

[Marc the Smark]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight The green bars to your left. They're under your name.

Okay thanks. But then how come if somebody reps me I don't get more bars?

[PureHatred]

I don't really care about backstage news. But true "marks" are also notorious for just liking and disliking whoever it is the WWE is shoving down out throats this month. Marks rarely watch anything outside of the mainstream. Marks don't think for themselves. Marks like Goldberg...still.

So no, I'd rather be a fan that occassionally "marks out" whenever something happens like Benoit winning the title at WMXX or Renee Dupree is being Rene Dupree. But being a mark means that I'm not going to have any opinion outside of the one that the WWE is drilling into my head. It means I won't think for myself.

Thanks but no thanks. I'm perfectly happy having already taken the red pill.

[Marc the Smark]

In Bobby Heenan's shoot for RF Video, he said the beginning of kayfabe was the end of wrestling. He said smartening up the fans, instead of the tv producers and the workers, brought "the magic" to an end. That sort of relates to this article, I guess, so I thought I would pass it along.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Red Hot Scott Okay thanks. But then how come if somebody reps me I don't get more bars?

Well, I think the next step from your current position (diamond in the rough--250+) is 500+. I doubt anyone has the rep power to give you a new bar in one or two reps.

[Marc the Smark]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight Well, I think the next step from your current position (diamond in the rough--250+) is 500+. I doubt anyone has the rep power to give you a new bar in one or two reps.

Ahhh. Now I understand. Thanks for your help.

[BasicThuganomics]

Originally Posted by Red Hot Scott Okay thanks. But then how come if somebody reps me I don't get more bars?

You don't get a bar every single time someone gives you a good rep. It takes time to build up.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Red Hot Scott In Bobby Heenan's shoot for RF Video, he said the beginning of kayfabe was the end of wrestling. He said smartening up the fans, instead of the tv producers and the workers, brought "the magic" to an end. That sort of relates to this article, I guess, so I thought I would pass it along.

I don't totally disagree.

However, instead of embracing what's happened, the WWE and many wrestlers blame the fans they created. At the same time we bitch-slap fans for being smarks, we further destroy KAYFABE with Tuff eeeeenufffffffffff 56...

[BasicThuganomics]

Originally Posted by Red Hot Scott In Bobby Heenan's shoot for RF Video, he said the beginning of kayfabe was the end of wrestling. He said smartening up the fans, instead of the tv producers and the workers, brought "the magic" to an end. That sort of relates to this article, I guess, so I thought I would pass it along.

Anything Bobby Heenan says is gold. Heenan is the ****ing man and there will never be a better manager/announcer than him. Lawler sucks so much compared to Heenan back in the day.

[KillerWolf]

i have to spread some rep around before..............................

but anyway, yeah...i do sometimes feel more like a critic than a fan nowadays. but its not what i know that makes me feel that way. its the fact that the product has gotten terribly stale. sometimes i want to see more of that bullshit, that i know is fake. it makes the show more interesting. when was the last time someone other than HHH beat the hell outta somebody with a chair.

i really dont give a shit about backstage politics. im just sick of the same shit all the time. the only problem i have with the politics is when it REALLY shines through on the show, like HHH being in every main event in the last 3 or 4 years. and RAW playing out like "the HHH show".

it just seems like there is so much missing nowadays. the characters, their entrance music, the plots, and even the matches; everything just seems so bland. btw the ppvs are really f-ing bland.

raw has been getting a little better for about a month or so. prior to that, they had shoved the same show down our throats for about two years. and you dont have to be a 'smart fan' to see that.

[PureHatred]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight I don't totally disagree. However, instead of embracing what's happened, the WWE and many wrestlers blame the fans they created. At the same time we bitch-slap fans for being smarks, we further destroy KAYFABE with Tuff eeeeenufffffffffff 56...

And Confidential. Remember its hard to hold on to kayfabe when you're showing us segments talking about contract disputes, commercial work, and showing us the workers at their homes. (although watching rey Misterio give us a Cribs like tour of his home in a mask was a funny attempt.)

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by PureHatred And Confidential. Remember its hard to hold on to kayfabe when you're showing us segments talking about contract disputes, commercial work, and showing us the workers at their homes. (although watching rey Misterio give us a Cribs like tour of his home in a mask was a funny attempt.)

Indeed. Don't blame us for destroying wrestling by being smarks when you keep shoving your own KAYFABE lapses down our throats...

[KillerWolf]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight People are too quick to disassociate themselve from the word "mark." I look at it from the other side. I'm not concerned about workrate because I'm a "smark," rather, I get called a "smark" because I'm concerned about workrate. I'm concerned about things like workrate because I like entertainment, and good workers are entertaining. What's the fun in life if you just think everything is great? without identifying bad moments, where's there a point in aidentifying good?

even when i was a young fan it would irretate me to see guys like hogan show up after a year of not being on television and automatically get a title shot. they did that with steiner vs. HHH too. i think steiner's first match was on ppv for the world title.

[BasicThuganomics]

Originally Posted by PureHatred I don't really care about backstage news. But true "marks" are also notorious for just liking and disliking whoever it is the WWE is shoving down out throats this month. Marks rarely watch anything outside of the mainstream. Marks don't think for themselves. Marks like Goldberg...still. So no, I'd rather be a fan that occassionally "marks out" whenever something happens like Benoit winning the title at WMXX or Renee Dupree is being Rene Dupree. But being a mark means that I'm not going to have any opinion outside of the one that the WWE is drilling into my head. It means I won't think for myself. Thanks but no thanks. I'm perfectly happy having already taken the red pill.

The only people who think marks are ignorant are "internet smarts". The point of the article is that when you're watching wrestling as a mark or a smart, marks will enjoy the product more often than smarts will. If someone gets more enjoyment out of a spear by Goldberg than a Benoit/Angle match, then at least they are having a good time. There is nothing wrong with being a mark who enjoys the product they are watching.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by shock&awe even when i was a young fan it would irretate me to see guys like hogan show up after a year of not being on television and automatically get a title shot. they did that with steiner vs. HHH too. i think steiner's first match was on ppv for the world title.

Yeah, it's massively annoying, and always has been.

[PureHatred]

Originally Posted by BasicThuganomics The only people who think marks are ignorant are "internet smarts". The point of the article is that when you're watching wrestling as a mark or a smart, marks will enjoy the product more often than smarts will. If someone gets more enjoyment out of a spear by Goldberg than a Benoit/Angle match, then at least they are having a good time. There is nothing wrong with being a mark who enjoys the product they are watching.

Like I said, I'd rather be able to have my opinion and still enjoy the product I'm watching. As was said earlier, if you can't discern the good from the bad on your own, all that cheering seems kind of pointless.

It's easy to be the mainstream. It takes work to have your own opinion.

If you think its so great, you be a mark.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Originally Posted by BasicThuganomics The only people who think marks are ignorant are "internet smarts". The point of the article is that when you're watching wrestling as a mark or a smart, marks will enjoy the product more often than smarts will. If someone gets more enjoyment out of a spear by Goldberg than a Benoit/Angle match, then at least they are having a good time. There is nothing wrong with being a mark who enjoys the product they are watching.

Hey, more power to the marks... I won't say I'm jealous of the marks, because I enjoy knowing what I know. I prefer watching wrestling for quality, not storylines and people being shoved down my throat. However, anyone who watches it to get enjoyment out of the story, and people like Goldberg, more power to them, especially when Vince wants to cater to them for the most part.

[BasicThuganomics]

Originally Posted by PureHatred Like I said, I'd rather be able to have my opinion and still enjoy the product I'm watching. As was said earlier, if you can't discern the good from the bad on your own, all that cheering seems kind of pointless. It's easy to be the mainstream. It takes work to have your own opinion. If you think its so great, you be a mark.

The thing is that marks do have their own opinions, why else have rating and buyrates gone down so much the last couple of years. Because alot of people who were marks weren't enjoying the product WWE were putting out a couple of years ago.

And quit acting like you're better than people who are marks. I hate it when people over the net act like you. And what the hell do you mean by saying that I be a mark? Is there a way to either be a mark or be a smart? Should I go back in time to the day I decided to look up wrestling websites and read about what happens behind the scenes? Tell me how I should go about suddenly transforming myself into being a standard mark?

[Marc the Smark]

Originally Posted by PureHatred If you think its so great, you be a mark.

With the product they're putting out, it's not that easy

[Marc the Smark]

Originally Posted by BasicThuganomics And quit acting like you're better than people who are marks. I hate it when people over the net act like you. And what the hell do you mean by saying that I be a mark? Is there a way to either be a mark or be a smart? Should I go back in time to the day I decided to look up wrestling websites and read about what happens behind the scenes? Tell me how I should go about suddenly transforming myself into being a standard mark?

Beautiful.

The problem is, once we hit "smarkdom" we can never go back. Thats why I want to watch wrestling and just enjoy it - which I do, but I'd enjoy it more if I knew less. I can easily blame the internet, but it would be more accurate to blame myself. I enjoy knowing stuff, but it changes everything. It's not the same as it used to be. I want to suspend my disbelief as best I can, but it's not that easy.

[PureHatred]

Originally Posted by BasicThuganomics The thing is that marks do have their own opinions, why else have rating and buyrates gone down so much the last couple of years. Because alot of people who were marks weren't enjoying the product WWE were putting out a couple of years ago. And quit acting like you're better than people who are marks. I hate it when people over the net act like you. And what the hell do you mean by saying that I be a mark? Is there a way to either be a mark or be a smart? Should I go back in time to the day I decided to look up wrestling websites and read about what happens behind the scenes? Tell me how I should go about suddenly transforming myself into being a standard mark?

Marks don't really have their own opinion. They watch wrestling when it's cool. They watch when its mainstream. Marks were watching when nWo members were on MTV Springbreak and you could buy Rock T-Shirts at Macy's.

And what I said was just an expression. If you really think it's better to have that kind of attitude about wrestling, stop going to sites like this one. The point is, I disagree with the article and I don't have any clue as to why you're defending the average mark so much. Do you flip out when someone criticizes mainstream music or television, too?

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by BasicThuganomics The thing is that marks do have their own opinions, why else have rating and buyrates gone down so much the last couple of years.

Answered by...

Originally Posted by Red Hot Scott With the product they're putting out, it's not that easy

There's only so long you can string people along with crap. I mean, when wrestling no longer is cool, all the followers will go off to reality shows or whatever else they're being told is cool this week.

[PureHatred]

Originally Posted by Red Hot Scott Beautiful. The problem is, once we hit "smarkdom" we can never go back. Thats why I want to watch wrestling and just enjoy it - which I do, but I'd enjoy it more if I knew less. I can easily blame the internet, but it would be more accurate to blame myself. I enjoy knowing stuff, but it changes everything. It's not the same as it used to be. I want to suspend my disbelief as best I can, but it's not that easy.

Stay way from wresling web sites for 3 months. See if it makes a difference. Like you said, the Net puts the information out there, but you don't have to look it up.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Red Hot Scott Beautiful. The problem is, once we hit "smarkdom" we can never go back. Thats why I want to watch wrestling and just enjoy it - which I do, but I'd enjoy it more if I knew less. I can easily blame the internet, but it would be more accurate to blame myself. I enjoy knowing stuff, but it changes everything. It's not the same as it used to be. I want to suspend my disbelief as best I can, but it's not that easy.

Personally, I haven't diminished my interest in wrestling because of "smarkdon."

I've felt a diminished interest because wrestling's sucked lately.

Come on, Wrestlemania XX was a night of overall letdown. WRESTLEMANIA! THE BIGGEST FUcking PPV OF THE YEAR! FOUR HOURS OF MATCHES!

[Ricky]

Originally Posted by PureHatred Marks don't really have their own opinion. They watch wrestling when it's cool. They watch when its mainstream. Marks were watching when nWo members were on MTV Springbreak and you could buy Rock T-Shirts at Macy's.

So you have never ever followed a popular trend and then stopped when it fades away? And if you have, does that mean you are a "mark" that can't come up with your own opinions?

[Kane Knight]

By the way, keep in mind when you talk about markdom, and defend marks by saying "Marks aren't stupid!!!!!" and "Marks have their own opinions..."

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=mark

21 entries found for mark.

(I'll keep it to the most applicable...)

A target: “A mounted officer would be a conspicuous mark” (Ambrose Bierce).

Slang. A person who is the intended victim of a swindler; a dupe.

Mark is carnie slang for someone simple, a victim to be "duped," as the dictionary says.

[Marc the Smark]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight Answered by... There's only so long you can string people along with crap. I mean, when wrestling no longer is cool, all the followers will go off to reality shows or whatever else they're being told is cool this week.

That's true, but they aren't real fans, and those kind of people bug the shit out of me. Although, I'm also annoyed by the people who are self-professed "smarts." That label should only be reserved for those who work in the business.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Red Hot Scott That's true, but they aren't real fans, and those kind of people bug the shit out of me.

So what is a "real fan" then?

One of the most loyal fanbases has been the "internet" fans...You know, the "smarks?"

[PureHatred]

Originally Posted by Ricky So you have never ever followed a popular trend and then stopped when it fades away? And if you have, does that mean you are a "mark" that can't come up with your own opinions?

Obviously, everyone has. And yes...it's a fad. It's fun to be part of the group. Hell, I buy new clothes every 6 or 7 months just so I don't look out of it when I go out.

But on stuff I consider important I form my own opinions.

The article basically says its more fun to be ignorant. Maybe thats true. And there are things that I watch with a certain amount of ignorance. Wrestling's not one of them.

That's it.

[BasicThuganomics]

Look, I know that wrestling was in the mainstream a few years ago and now it isn't. Wrestling was cool a few years ago because it was really, really good. People (marks) watched it because it was a good product.If Wrestling hadn't been good, then it would have been kool. What made wrestling not be mainstream anymore is that it started to suck, so marks stopped watching it. So obviously they have an opinion of some kind. and I'm not saying that being a mark is better than being a smart and that I wish I had never gone to the internet. In my earlier post I stated that I gained more respect for the business and the wrestlers by knowing what I know over the Internet. But if a mark is enjoying the product then good for them! Nothing wrong with a person enjoying themselves. I am defending them because I don't think there is anything wrong with being a mark. But obviously you seem to think there is something wrong with that, and I disagree.

[PureHatred]

Originally Posted by Red Hot Scott Although, I'm also annoyed by the people who are self-professed "smarts." That label should only be reserved for those who work in the business.

Oh no! Flair got to this one, too!

[Kane Knight]

Not everyone has.

I wear what I want (And rarely update my wardrobe for any reason other than my clothes being worn out), watch what I want, listen to what I want (Even if it's poppier...Dropkick Murphys, Maroon 5, Linkin Park, even though I don't like their "genres..."). I don't follow fads or trends, I do what I wants...If I like something, it's because I like it, not because it's trendy to do so.

[Marc the Smark]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight So what is a "real fan" then? One of the most loyal fanbases has been the "internet" fans...You know, the "smarks?"

I'm kind of a "smark," I guess (though I'm very confused by all these labels), and I'm not suggesting "smarks" aren't "real" fans. I'm saying people who watching wrestling only once-in-a-while, the ones who leave when they're not entertained, the people who stop watching wrestling and go watch reality shows... those are the ones I'm referring to. "Real" fans watch wrestling whether it's "cool" or not. And just to clarify, I have no problem with "marks." In fact, on the contrary.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by BasicThuganomics Look, I know that wrestling was in the mainstream a few years ago and now it isn't. Wrestling was cool a few years ago because it was really, really good. People (marks) watched it because it was a good product.If Wrestling hadn't been good, then it would have been kool. What made wrestling not be mainstream anymore is that it started to suck, so marks stopped watching it. So obviously they have an opinion of some kind. and I'm not saying that being a mark is better than being a smart and that I wish I had never gone to the internet. In my earlier post I stated that I gained more respect for the business and the wrestlers by knowing what I know over the Internet. But if a mark is enjoying the product then good for them! Nothing wrong with a person enjoying themselves. I am defending them because I don't think there is anything wrong with being a mark. But obviously you seem to think there is something wrong with that, and I disagree.

So by your logic, Bopy Bands and reality TV are really really good, because they're kool and mainstream right now?

[BasicThuganomics]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight Answered by... There's only so long you can string people along with crap. I mean, when wrestling no longer is cool, all the followers will go off to reality shows or whatever else they're being told is cool this week.

I just don't think its a matter of being kool, its a matter of when WWE is putting out a good or bad product. Wrestling was kool when the product was much better than now.