DISCUSSION - What Feuds in the WWE are crucial for the year 2004 in your opinion?

[Heyman]

DISCUSSION - What Feuds in the WWE are crucial for the year 2004 in your opinion?

In your opinion, what feuds would be a success for the WWE if it happened this year? (or before next year's WM). Here are some feuds which I would like to see.

Randy Orton vs. Triple H:

Eventually when Orton takes over Evolution, I would like to see a heel Orton go up against a face Triple H (where Orton ultimately goes over). This will firmly establish Orton as a main-event heel for the future. Once Orton up-ends Triple H, he can go after the World title.

Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit:

A blast from the past. These guys had awesome chemistry in year 2000, and it shouldn't be different in 2004. I'm thinking that these guys can kind of be like Angle/Lesnar when Angle returned after WM-19. At first Benoit and Jericho can both be friends/competitors who are both faces. Through time however, one of these men (preferrably Benoit) can go heel. I'm thinking that after a long and drawn out feud (where both men score clean victories), Jericho can get the last laugh. A face Jericho then goes on to face a heel Orton.

Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton:

The most popular babyface going up against the most over heel. This can either be the main-event for next year's Wrestlemania, or it can happen AFTER Wrestlemania (where Jericho and Benoit headline Wrestlemania, and Jericho feuds with Orton afterwards).


John Cena vs. Undertaker:

Here's what I think NEEDS to happen on Smackdown......Undertaker becomes the top heel and gets a LOOONG title reign as WWE Champion. Undertaker also re-forms the ministry. Undertaker, as heel champ, does the following:

1) Allows a credible main-eventer to hold the title.

2) Allows Eddie Guerrero, John Cena, etc. to be the top faces (if Taker stays face, it kind of holds them back.........even if he is only a 'special attraction' now).

3) The new guys in this ministry 'get over' due to being associated with Undertaker (kind of like Batista, Orton, etc. are over due to Triple H/Flair presence). Guys like Mecidi (can't remember his name...that new guy), Jindrak (gets rid of Long), and two other young up-and-comers become a part of this new ministry.

After going through guys like Eddie Guerrero, Big Show (turns face), Charlie Hass, and even Kurt Angle, Undertaker meets up with John Cena. Cena finally wins the World title by defeating Taker.

[PureHatred]

I think Orton/Triple H might happen early next year depending on how long Trips is gone for his movie, but I do think it's crucial.

1) Orton vs Edge: This is going to be the first feud that Randy Orton really has to generate his own heat. And its Edge's way to re-establish himself as a draw. If the feud works, both men will be hugely over as a result.

2) Eddie vs Booker T: No matter how entertaining JBL is as a racist JR Ewing, in order for the lottery to work, Booker T is going to have ot be Smackdown's top heel eventually. And the way that show has struggled, SD needs an Eddie/Booker feud to be a homerun.

3) Goldberg vs Stone Cold: Seriously. If some promoter or company manages to put these two on the same card sooner rather than later, it's going to have a huge effect on the business in general and the WWE in particular. They've spent years as the only show in town and its looking more and more like **ahem** [JR] BAHGAWD BUSINESS IS ABOUT TO PICK UP [/JR]

[John la Rock]

I would love to see another Eddie Guerrero/Kurt Angle feud. Hopefully after all this JBL crap is over Guerrero can go back to facing Angle.

I also agree with your other suggestions

[Mr. Nerfect]

These are just some other feuds that would be good:

Jericho/Edge
Edge/Michaels
JBL/John Cena
John Cena/Eddie Guerrero
The Undertaker/Kurt Angle
The Undertaker/JBL
John Cena/RVD
John Cena/Booker T

[Goldbird]

Trips/Ric Flair
Goldberg/FUnaki
Lesnar/Spike Dudley...

Obviously, these matches are crucial to WWE cuz it will pull WWE's reputation down by at least 2 times. Hence, we can conclude that there wont be such feuds in WWE in the near future.

God, i wonder what am i typing...

[Ferocious]

Originally Posted by Goldbird Trips/Ric Flair Goldberg/FUnaki Lesnar/Spike Dudley... Obviously, these matches are crucial to WWE cuz it will pull WWE's reputation down by at least 2 times. Hence, we can conclude that there wont be such feuds in WWE in the near future. God, i wonder what am i typing...

BAHGAWDBAHGAWDBAHGAWD GOLDBIRD IS SPEAKING PURE ASS STAND BACK KING BAHGAWDSTUNNERRKOBBQSAUCE

[Goldbird]

Originally Posted by Ferocious BAHGAWDBAHGAWDBAHGAWD GOLDBIRD IS SPEAKING PURE ASS STAND BACK KING BAHGAWDSTUNNERRKOBBQSAUCE

Hey! i think i fit the criteria for ur avatar!

[Ferocious]

Originally Posted by Goldbird Hey! i think i fit the criteria for ur avatar!

Agreed

[The CyNick]

Taker as aheel with a new Ministry is bad enough, but giving him the title is just flat out wrong. I think Heyman hates Smackdown.

1)Orton-HHH will be big. I think it will be RAW's headline match for Mania, and it needs to make Orton the top heel in the company. HHH has said he wants to get Orton over, I wonder what will happen when the time actually comes to pass the torch.

2) Edge-Orton need to establish a long-term feud ala HHH-Rocky where they can feud over the IC title, and then later feud again over the World title.

3) RVD-Eddie could be huge. If they could ever get RVD over as a heel, he could lead a Heyman-ECW faction, and maybe just maybe finally get the WWE title. If that were to happen it would give SD a high profile feud for the summer and really help establish Eddie as the top guy in the company.

4) Eddie-Angle should happen again. Dont know when, but when it does, it surely will be very good.

5) Cena-Angle is something they should do to elevate to that next level. I think Angle could do something similar to Cena like Foley did for Orton. If Cena could win a solid match against Angle, it would really establish him as a new main eventer.

6) Big Show-Taker could be also used to elevate Big Show, if Taker was ever willing to do a JOB

[The Dub]

Originally Posted by PureHatred I2) Eddie vs Booker T: No matter how entertaining JBL is as a racist JR Ewing, in order for the lottery to work, Booker T is going to have ot be Smackdown's top heel eventually. And the way that show has struggled, SD needs an Eddie/Booker feud to be a homerun.

When Booker T. was traded to SD!, this was the first feud that came to my mind. SD! doesn't have a lot of star power and BT does need to be the top heel. I totally agree with you.

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by The CyNick Taker as aheel with a new Ministry is bad enough, but giving him the title is just flat out wrong. I think Heyman hates Smackdown.

LOL. Someone sounds a little bitter that their precious Leafs are getting their asses handed to them.

Think of it this way:

1) Evolution has been the main heel stable on Raw. Because of association with Flair and Triple H, guys like Orton and Batista have been made to look important. SIMILARILY, Undertaker's ministry can have the same effect. If you put guys like Jindrak (ditches Long), Medici (that new guy), and some other guy, all 3 of these guys would automatically 'get over'.

2) Undertaker is obviously not a desireable champion in terms of workrrate, but he does provide the following:

a) He would be a CREDIBLE "big name" HEEL champion......something of which Big Show, John Layfield Bradshaw, and Booker T will NOT provide.

b) Due to the awesomeness of the Ministry, the storyline revolving around the WWE title would be INTENSE. In the past, ratings and fan interest have always been higher when a lead heel stable (with the Champ as its centerpiece) has been "running things".

c) Guys like Eddie Guerrero and John Cena clearly become the top two faces. I realize that this is how things are right now, but why have a guy like Taker (with this 'special attraction' BS) make them appear to be 'less' as faces?

d) As a heel, Taker chances of blatantly squashing his opponents become far less. If Taker stays face, you can bet your bottom dollar that he'll squash the shit out of guys like Renee Dupree, etc., As a heel however, there's no way that the WWE will have him DESSIMATE a guy like Eddie Guerrero or John Cena.

Think back to 1999. When Undertaker fought Ken Shamrock at one of the PPV's, the match was made to look VERY close. Bradshaw even helped Taker out. In this match, Taker was a HEEL. If the situation was reversed, Taker would have SQUASHED the POOP out of Shamrock.

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by rabidwolverine When Booker T. was traded to SD!, this was the first feud that came to my mind. SD! doesn't have a lot of star power and BT does need to be the top heel. I totally agree with you.

If Booker T becomes the top heel on Smackdown, it just re-emphasizes the point of how Smackdown is indeed, "the minor leagues". Booker T was a mid-carder on Raw. Why should HE be a World Champion contender SO SOON on Smackdown?

That's why I'd rather see Undertaker be heel champion. In terms of credibility and 'overness', Taker ranks right up there with Stone Cold STeve Austin and Triple H.

It just makes the company look WEAK when you have MIDCARDERS such as Bradshaw, Hardcore Holly, Booker T, and even Big Show as heel champions.

I have no problem with Booker T and Bradshaw becoming champs one day,.....but they need to establish (or re-establish) CREDIBILTY first.

[The Dub]

Originally Posted by Heyman If Booker T becomes the top heel on Smackdown, it just re-emphasizes the point of how Smackdown is indeed, "the minor leagues". Booker T was a mid-carder on Raw. Why should HE be a World Champion contender SO SOON on Smackdown? That's why I'd rather see Undertaker be heel champion. In terms of credibility and 'overness', Taker ranks right up there with Stone Cold STeve Austin and Triple H. It just makes the company look WEAK when you have MIDCARDERS such as Bradshaw, Hardcore Holly, Booker T, and even Big Show as heel champions. I have no problem with Booker T and Bradshaw becoming champs one day,.....but they need to establish (or re-establish) CREDIBILTY first.

We all know why Booker T. was a mid-carder on Raw, don't we? He wasn't used right on Raw and everyone knows that. Same with RVD, which is why I think it's good that they got away from Raw to bring some of Raw's more popular talents to SD! You have to give Booker a chance. He's been in WWE for almost three years and he only got one big push. Hell, I'm a Benoit fan, but if they can push Benoit into the main event on Raw, then they should have no problem pushing BT into the main-event on SD! People aren't even giving SD! a chance. We all know Raw is Vince's baby, but SD! could be just a good if they evened out the rosters a little more. Raw has about ten more superstars than SD! and definitely more main-event caliber talent. BT, as long as HHH was there, would have always been a mid-carder.

[PureHatred]

You talked about feuds for the year. Obviously they would have to build him up in order for the feud to work. I'm not booking the whole damn build-up. I was posting feuds that would be important in the immediate future.

Christ, why do you do this every time disagrees with your fantasy bookings?

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by PureHatred Christ, why do you do this every time disagrees with your fantasy bookings?

This time I'm 'a let it all come out
This time I'm 'a stand up and shout
I'm 'a do things my way
It's my way
My way, or the highway

Some day you'll see things my way
Cause you never know
no, you never know
When you're gonna go

[PureHatred]

Thanks..I'd follow your way but it seems to leade to IPedigree's.

GERTNER OUT!

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by PureHatred Thanks..I'd follow your way but it seems to leade to IPedigree's. GERTNER OUT!

In all seriousness, I think your ideas were good.

It just annoys me sometimes how people THINK or EXPECT that guys like Booker T, Bradshaw, Hardcore Holly, etc. will IMMEDIATELY draw as main-eventers. By all means - push any of these guys, but establish credibility first.

[PureHatred]

Nah, Booker T needs to go over some midcarders. It looks like he's going to get squashed by UT at Judgment Day. But after that he should go on a f*cking tear. The main problem on Smackdown is that the whole roster is thin so that practically everyone on the show is establishing themselves.

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by PureHatred Nah, Booker T needs to go over some midcarders. It looks like he's going to get squashed by UT at Judgment Day. But after that he should go on a f*cking tear. The main problem on Smackdown is that the whole roster is thin so that practically everyone on the show is establishing themselves.

Another concern of mine is even if Booker T "re-establishes himself" and becomes a main-eventer, will it still make Smackdown look 'inferior' to Raw? I mean - the guy has been a mid-carder on Raw for 2 years.

I'm interested to what the WWE does with this Medici character (I don't know if that's his name). Hopefully - he becomes Smackdown's answer to Randy Orton (i.e. a prominent and promising main-event heel for the not-so-distant future)

[PureHatred]

Mordecai is Seven from OVW. A very, very average brawler with limited mic skills.

If you want to bet on the next break out star on Smackdown, look no further than the French Tickler.

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by PureHatred Mordecai is Seven from OVW. A very, very average brawler with limited mic skills.

Sometimes - the awesomeness of a gimmick can overcome a wrestler's defincies. Mic skills can be worked on. If you recall correctly, Christian wasn't the greatest on a mic when he first debuted in the WWE. Matt Hardy has also shown lots of improvment in this area.

[MVP]

Booker T isn't the same heel he used to be. During the invasion angle he was very entertaining with his catch phrases, and comedy sketches which drew pretty well. He was seen as WCW's best, but the problem was that he was naturally inferior to Austin and The Rock which is what hurt him in the long run. I think that when Booker T first appeared on Smackdown he could've kicked off his run on the same foot, but instead he got serious like any other superstar, and didn't stand out.

I think Booker T can draw as WWE Champion, but he needs to "re-establish" himself as Heyman said before.

Right now I think an the RVD/Eddie feud could be huge with proper booking like CyNick mentioned earlier.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Heyman LOL. Someone sounds a little bitter that their precious Leafs are getting their asses handed to them. Think of it this way: 1) Evolution has been the main heel stable on Raw. Because of association with Flair and Triple H, guys like Orton and Batista have been made to look important. SIMILARILY, Undertaker's ministry can have the same effect. If you put guys like Jindrak (ditches Long), Medici (that new guy), and some other guy, all 3 of these guys would automatically 'get over'. 2) Undertaker is obviously not a desireable champion in terms of workrrate, but he does provide the following: a) He would be a CREDIBLE "big name" HEEL champion......something of which Big Show, John Layfield Bradshaw, and Booker T will NOT provide. b) Due to the awesomeness of the Ministry, the storyline revolving around the WWE title would be INTENSE. In the past, ratings and fan interest have always been higher when a lead heel stable (with the Champ as its centerpiece) has been "running things". c) Guys like Eddie Guerrero and John Cena clearly become the top two faces. I realize that this is how things are right now, but why have a guy like Taker (with this 'special attraction' BS) make them appear to be 'less' as faces? d) As a heel, Taker chances of blatantly squashing his opponents become far less. If Taker stays face, you can bet your bottom dollar that he'll squash the shit out of guys like Renee Dupree, etc., As a heel however, there's no way that the WWE will have him DESSIMATE a guy like Eddie Guerrero or John Cena. Think back to 1999. When Undertaker fought Ken Shamrock at one of the PPV's, the match was made to look VERY close. Bradshaw even helped Taker out. In this match, Taker was a HEEL. If the situation was reversed, Taker would have SQUASHED the POOP out of Shamrock.

Leafs still rule all (and will come back), they are the uncrowned Stanley Cup Champions for 37 years running.

Back to wrestling:

I dont agree with the heel stable = ratings thing. There have been plenty of times when the WWE was dropping in the ratings and they had a heel faction on top (Alliance days, Evolution in 03 didn't do any business, etc).

The other thing that you seem to ALWAYS overlook is that people dont want to boo Taker. His last heel run wasn't all that successful, and if you read all the house show reports he gets one of the biggest pops when he shows up. So you are assuming a Taker heel turn will draw in viewers, when whats more likely is that the people who are watching SD will stop (at least the Taker fans), which isn't good when SD is already in trouble. And why would he turn in the first place? Would he be upset that the fans are cheering him so much for doing so little? Or maybe he'd be upset because nobody in Dallas tried to dig him out of his grave after Survivor Series.

Cena and Guerrero are the top two faces, and Taker being a babyface doesn't impact that. I mean it wont as long as Taker isn't headlining the shows. Right now Taker seems to be headed for a match with Booker T, that doesn't hurt Cena or Eddie, they both have their spots, and Taker isn't hurting them.

What would be worse is if Taker wass a heel, and he wins the title (which means Eddie has to JOB) and then guys like Cena and Eddie will have to work with Taker, and I know they will look worse coming out of the match than they do going in. Taker is a different guy then he was in the late 90s, he's become even more selfish, which has been proven time and again over the past few years.

Your Ministry is a little odd, why would Jindrak all of a sudden become an evil mineon of the Undertaker when he is a narcissistic former basketball player, I dont see where it all fits. And why would he leave Teddy Long????

And what would make it so INTENSE? Cena would be mad at Taker, why? Because "a man with a funny goatee cant see this mean ass emcee?" I dont know I just dont see the feud meshing. Or how about Eddie-Taker, maybe Taker could sacrifise one of his lowriders.

I also dont agree that Taker heel = more selling. The reason is that at least as a babyface they have to get sympathy on him, so what would make more sense is for a guy like Mordecai to start up an evil faction and they could get some beatings in on Taker. That way the group gets over as heels (4 on 1 or whatever) and they will get some spotlight for working with Taker. However in the end Taker can win, but he's not really hurting anyone because these guys would be mid card heels, who probably have nothing else going for them (ie Bashams, maybe Mideon too).

I dont know how they are advertising Smackdown house shows these days, but I would think that with Taker not appearing on TV every week, that using him to promote house shows might create a small upswing in business. If you turn him heel, people will likely turn away, and you lose a special attraction for house shows.

[Heyman]

[QUOTE=The CyNick]Leafs still rule all (and will come back), they are the uncrowned Stanley Cup Champions for 37 years running.

Back to wrestling: I dont agree with the heel stable = ratings thing. There have been plenty of times when the WWE was dropping in the ratings and they had a heel faction on top (Alliance days, Evolution in 03 didn't do any business, etc).

The Alliance wasn't really a 'stable'. Also - think back to the original Degeneration X, The Corporation, Corporate Ministry, and McMahon-Helmsley Faction. In WCW, think of the nWo (the original version). For the most part- it does seem like a formula for ratings......as long as there is one PROMINENT and INTERESTING leader/wrestler within the group. In 2003, would Triple H really qualify as one of those? I think you'd be the first person to agree that he was STALE (which is maybe one reason why Evolution didn't really 'draw' as much as they could have).

The other thing that you seem to ALWAYS overlook is that people dont want to boo Taker.

Did People really want to 'boo' The Rock during the Corporate Days? How about Triple H when he was the centerpiece of the McMahon-Helmsley Faction? How about Undertaker when he was the centerpiece of the Corporate Ministry? How about Shawn Michaels when he was the leader of the original Degeneration X? How about The Rock when he came back in 2003 as a Hollywood sell-out heel?

I can even make a valid point about Austin in the alliance. Granted - the fans didn't want to really 'boo' Austin, but they did when times were appropriate. The fans were clearly behind Jericho, Benoit, and Angle when he fought those men. The fans would've been behind RVD as well. The problem however, was that there wasn't really a STRONG enough face (or one that the WWE was willing to push) to really CAPTIVATE the fans so they would be 100% AGAINST Austin........but I'm digressing a bit.

The Point I'm trying to make, is that a lot of the most successful heels will ALWAYS be "popular" and "liked" to some degree.

His last heel run wasn't all that successful, and if you read all the house show reports he gets one of the biggest pops when he shows up. So you are assuming a Taker heel turn will draw in viewers, when whats more likely is that the people who are watching SD will stop (at least the Taker fans), which isn't good when SD is already in trouble. And why would he turn in the first place? Would he be upset that the fans are cheering him so much for doing so little? Or maybe he'd be upset because nobody in Dallas tried to dig him out of his grave after Survivor Series.

LOL.

Anyways - Business was down during Taker's run anyways. Also - Austin and The Rock were ABSENT during this time......as was Chris Benoit if I'm not mistaken. If memory serves me correctly, Taker's main opponents at this time were Hulk Hogan and Jeff Hardy. Speaking of Hardy, the fans were CLEARLY behind Hardy when he almost defeated Taker.

As far as explaining Taker's heel turn? He can do the same thing he did in 99'. When Taker first came back, he also got cheered massively. However - he simply started recruiting members to his ministry. Once he had his Ministry, he started attacking the top faces...and aligned himself with Vince. VOILA -> the fans BOOED him. The Ministry still got popped, but were CLEARLY booed against the likes of The Rock, Austin, etc.

Cena and Guerrero are the top two faces, and Taker being a babyface doesn't impact that. I mean it wont as long as Taker isn't headlining the shows. Right now Taker seems to be headed for a match with Booker T, that doesn't hurt Cena or Eddie, they both have their spots, and Taker isn't hurting them.

I think the Taker/Booker T feud will be TRES STUPIDE! Booker T is going to get squashed. This wil ultimately achieve nothing. Faces always get in more offense. Especially if you're dealing with a guy like Taker, the heel will get offense like 5% of the time. This is why I worry about Taker being a face....and his pending feud with Booker T.

What would be worse is if Taker wass a heel, and he wins the title (which means Eddie has to JOB) and then guys like Cena and Eddie will have to work with Taker, and I know they will look worse coming out of the match than they do going in. Taker is a different guy then he was in the late 90s, he's become even more selfish, which has been proven time and again over the past few years.

Taker could always win by screwjob over Guerrero. That's what he did with Austin in the late 90's. I'm not sure what you are talking about in regards to Taker being 'more selfish' in the last few years. He JOBBED to Lesnar, just as he JOBBED to Austin. He got dominated by guys like The Rock, Ken Shamrock, and Kane during his heel runs (in the late 90's), just as guys like Jeff Hardy, Kurt Angle, and Triple H were made to look more 'dominant' during Taker's heel run about 2 years ago.

Taker's gimmick is unique. A part of Taker's gimmick is being "para-normal" and "superior". Therefore - he will always be SELECTIVE when it comes to jobbing. That way when he does JOB, it makes it look more significant to the opposing wrestler. Based on Taker's history, I am CONFIDENT that he will ultimately 'put over' a guy like John Cena.

Hell - his matches with Austin weren't all the great either, but Austin still gained massive credibility when he defeated Taker (THINK - Summerslam 98').

Your Ministry is a little odd, why would Jindrak all of a sudden become an evil mineon of the Undertaker when he is a narcissistic former basketball player, I dont see where it all fits. And why would he leave Teddy Long????

Why would Denis Knight all of a sudden become Mideon? Why would Mable all of a sudden become Viscera? Why would jobbers such as Farooq and Bradshaw all of a sudden become the "Acolytes"....and have weird symbols on their chests?

Basically - Taker can come out, and recruit ANYBODY......no matter what gimmick they currently have......just as he did in 99'. Why would this be so difficult to 'pull off'?

And what would make it so INTENSE? Cena would be mad at Taker, why? Because "a man with a funny goatee cant see this mean ass emcee?" I dont know I just dont see the feud meshing. Or how about Eddie-Taker, maybe Taker could sacrifise one of his lowriders.

LOL.

I also dont agree that Taker heel = more selling. The reason is that at least as a babyface they have to get sympathy on him, so what would make more sense is for a guy like Mordecai to start up an evil faction and they could get some beatings in on Taker. That way the group gets over as heels (4 on 1 or whatever) and they will get some spotlight for working with Taker. However in the end Taker can win, but he's not really hurting anyone because these guys would be mid card heels, who probably have nothing else going for them (ie Bashams, maybe Mideon too).

I see what you're saying here.

Speaking of Basham's, I wouldn't mind seeing them join the Ministry. They could use a COOLER gimmick. Mordecai, Basham's, and Taker = Ministry. That way - you can sleep at night.....and not have to think about Jindrak leaving Long.

I dont know how they are advertising Smackdown house shows these days, but I would think that with Taker not appearing on TV every week, that using him to promote house shows might create a small upswing in business. If you turn him heel, people will likely turn away, and you lose a special attraction for house shows.

I see what you're saying, but I think it's also STUPID to hold off your top star and use him as a 'special attraction'.

Think about Austin in 99'. Did the WWE do something gay and use him as a 'special attraction'?.........or did they milk there top star for all he was worth?

What's more important? Television ratings or House Shows?