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02-14-2012, 04:42 PM
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#1 | ||
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Former TPWW Royalty
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Would they benefit or be hurt with a change?
Do you think changing from face to heel and vice versa would end up being more helpful or hurtful towards a certain wrestler than their current position?
I only listed a few wrestlers but feel free to add in others. Zack Ryder Jack Swagger Kofi Kingston John Cena Big Show Cody Rhodes Drew McIntyre Mark Henry Randy Orton Quote:
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Last edited by Emperor Smeat; 02-14-2012 at 07:17 PM. |
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02-14-2012, 05:20 PM
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#2 |
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Feeling Oof-y
Posts: 17,151
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I don't think any of those guys would benfit from a turn but a slight change in character might benfit Ryder, Orton and Kofi.
Dunno who this Swagger guy is. |
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02-14-2012, 05:47 PM
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#3 |
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Narc stole my star
Posts: 6,110
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Big Show flip-flops way too much as it is.
Orton is mad over as a babyface but he was way more interesting as a heel. |
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02-14-2012, 07:15 PM
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#4 |
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Feeling Oof-y
Posts: 17,151
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Dunno, I can tolerate Orton in the ring nowadays. He was "Mr Resthold" as a heel.
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02-14-2012, 07:41 PM
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#5 |
Posts: 4,839
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Kofi needs a legit push as a face in the main event scene, not a heel change. Air Boom was/is exciting, but Kofi could be a very popular upper midcard/main event competitor.
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02-14-2012, 08:43 PM
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#6 |
Posts: 24,441
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Out of that bunch, I'd probably quite like a face turn for McIntyre.
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02-17-2012, 02:57 AM
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#7 |
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Posts: 61,543
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Zack Ryder
Should he turn heel? Probably not. Would he benefit? Honestly, I think he would. I think it would garner him more attention. As a babyface, Ryder is over and moves merchandise. That's two good reasons not to turn him. As a heel, though, the guy could cause an uproar, play to his strengths a bit more (instead of being a guy who gets his ass kicked, he becomes a guy who cheats his ass off to win matches and get places himself), and probably have a bit more credibility. If Ryder stabbed his fans in the back, I have a feeling he could gather massive amounts of heat, and his gimmick is just potentially annoying enough to make people want to put down hard cash to see him get punched in the mouth. Jack Swagger His character wouldn't benefit. Not yet. Swagger seems a bit stale and all that, but I think his ring work would be far better as a heel. Plus, I don't see him making too much money as a babyface, whereas as a heel there isn't as much pressure on Swagger to garner ratings and such. He plays the heel obstacle faces have to overcome occasionally role well, and it suits his arrogant persona. Swagger needs a push and a program more than a face turn. Kofi Kingston Here is a man that is so likeable and energetic as a babyface that I could understand it if the WWE never turned him. Don't get me wrong -- a heel Kofi could be remarkably interesting. Kofi has shown a darker more intense side that could very easily lend itself to an angry heel character. The dimensions that would create in Kofi would be remarkable. The time's not right, though. So, yes -- it would freshen up his character; but no -- timing is not right. Kofi needs a crack as a serious main event babyface before he turns heel. John Cena Yes, absolutely. Would the WWE do this? Well, they'd need a guy that could carry the face end of things. The WWE seems to be going about trying to get Sheamus and CM Punk to that level. If, combined, they make enough money to ensure that the WWE is fine without a babyface Cena (as in no drop off at all), then I could see the much beneficial heel change for Cena. It would generate a renewed interest in the product, in my opinion, and would be an era-defining shift. Last year, I could have seen it happening in 2012. Now I can't. Big Show Nah. As a babyface right now, he's just too soft and cuddly to randomly turn and it mean anything. Show also flip-flops (as someone said) too often. Let him spend a few more years as a likeable babyface, and then have Show get one last crack as a heel at the World Title -- going monster because he "doesn't have much time left." Cody Rhodes Prediction: One day Cody Rhodes will be a top babyface in the WWE. But now is not the time. Cody's character has evolved so beautifully. He's aware of what he is doing, too. Right now, Cody is such a jerk and so good at it that turning him face would be absolutely foolish. There's nothing wrong with a more "shades of grey" Cody, that calls heels on their shit and can prove that he can hold his own with babyfaces; but "cool heel" is as far as Cody should go right now, in my opinion. Drew McIntyre To be honest, I would say no. I think McIntyre works best as a heel, and I think that being a face would put too much pressure on him (much like Swagger). I think the guy should reaffirm his heel status, kick some ass as a bad dude, and turn away from the light side, so to speak. Again, I see nothing wrong with a McIntyre that is willing to prove himself by taking on any challenge; but his general persona should not change. Mark Henry I would care far more about Henry as a bad-ass babyface than in his current role. He could so easily do it, too. He's shown sparks of it doing guest commentary and with Daniel Bryan. All Henry needs is a heel to break in half. Randy Orton He's been so good in the ring as a babyface, and his character is essentially the same either way. He kicks ass and enjoys it. If you "turned him," you would be messing with an already perfect formula. I wouldn't mind seeing Orton in more face vs. face situations, where his ruthlessness knows no bounds; but no way should he "turn" on anybody. |
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02-18-2012, 04:24 PM
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#8 |
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Posts: 44
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I think the person who would benefit the most on that list is Kofi. While watching Raw this past week, I saw something from him that I never had before. A potential darkside. He could easily take this "Afterthought" idea and create a mean streak. Have him interrupt random matches and kick the crap out of people. Then he could get a more intense and gloomy theme song. Perhaps a new, less babyface finishing manuever. I really think this could work. The guy's been stale for so long. Why not at least consider if your the WWE brass?
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02-18-2012, 07:25 PM
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#9 |
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Tacos!
Posts: 795
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Anyone who even implies that WWE won't turn Cena heel for fear or merchandise drops is silly. IMO, its more of an image thing given all that he's associated with (Make A Wish, etc.)
Besides, the idea that heels don't move merchandise is also silly |
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02-18-2012, 07:47 PM
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#10 | |
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You can't teach that
Posts: 19,337
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They move merch, but at a combined 10th of Cena. |
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02-18-2012, 07:49 PM
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#11 | |
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Tacos!
Posts: 795
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Quote:
And if you want a more recent reference, try Punk the weeks after his shoot on RAW |
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02-18-2012, 09:13 PM
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#12 |
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Tacos!
Posts: 795
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To elaborate a bit further, it isn't that these heels cannot draw - its the limitations they're placed under. I'm of the opinion that Vince's heels fall into four distinct categories with very little deviation, if any, ever.
Generic Heel/Vanilla Heel - This guy is a heel just because Vince says he is. This heel gets cheap heat by insulting the hometown fans and beating up on faces and doesn't really have any outstanding moment to describe why he is a heel. See: Swagger, Miz. Arrogant/Cocky Heel: Self explanitory, annoying heel. See: Ziggler, Rhodes Cole. Monster Heel: This guy is a heel because he's a predatory character either physically or is predatory by abusing his position of power. See: Henry, Kane, Bischoff, Mr. McMahon character. Rich Heel: A wealthy heel character or "powerful" feel character. Typically shits on the crowd for being better than them and a such is a slight variation of cocky heel. See Del Rio, early Jerry Lawler, Tiger Ali Singh. This is not to say that there aren't exceptions to the rule but mainly Vince's heels fall under these guidelines and as such are limited as to what they can become. Onto the guys mentioned: Zack Ryder: This would be the most dangerous of the heel turns. One on hand, it could take the character to the next level. On the other hand, turning Ryder heel would likely have the character lose everything that made him what he is. High risk, high reward potentially but also a high failure probability where failure seriously damages the character. Jack Swagger: He needs something because right now I don't know that a face turn elevates him. He's currently stuck in neutral. Unfortunately, he's stuck where he is as I don't think a face turn would save him from mid card hell. Kofi Kingston: An interesting idea and given the "will not be an afterthought" moment on RAW, it could work. Problem is, it would need more than that. Otherwise, it becomes another one dimensional heel character. John Cena: They won't do it if they haven't done it by now. Agenda reasons aside form financial reasons. Big Show: Same as Swagger. He is what he is. I don't see a turn elevating him or decreasing his stature either way Cody Rhodes: Would not touch him in any way. Drew McIntyre: A turn isn't his problem. Its the lack of high profile angles and getting squashed. Mark Henry: Leave him alone. Randy Orton: I would probably leave him alone as well. |
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02-18-2012, 09:27 PM
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#13 |
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Ser Taker Maplesap
Posts: 502
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Zack Ryder - no
Jack Swagger - no Kofi Kingston - yes, if you want me to like him as a person and wrestler John Cena - not really, doing well with him atm Big Show - yes, needs to be pure heel Cody Rhodes - no, slow burn for this guy. going into something special Drew McIntyre - no. he needs to be good no matter what he is doing Mark Henry - no Randy Orton - no but he does need to show more emotional depth in the future |
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02-18-2012, 09:43 PM
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#14 | |
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Posts: 61,543
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Quote:
As far as Zack Ryder goes -- I agree with you, to a degree. I can see where you are coming from, at least. But when you look at the reasons for Ryder doing his internet show and trying to forge a connection with the "WWE Universe" and all that, it makes total sense that Ryder would cling to whatever spot he could get. Give him Curt Hawkins and Tyler Reks as running buddies, and have him play a "I must be successful" sort of heel. He sacrifices his friendship with John Cena and his connection to the fans in order to achieve. I honestly believe Ryder could be one of the hottest heels of 2012 if he turned later this year. Remember when The Rock was getting insanely over and then aligned himself with Vince McMahon as the Corporate Champ? I could see it being a similarly shocking heel turn for Ryder. Now, I'm not saying that Ryder is going to be the next Rock or anything; but as a heel in ECW, Ryder proved that he can work a good match, and he could get some fun promos out of a "You people only got me so far" character. |
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02-18-2012, 09:52 PM
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#15 |
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Posts: 61,543
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As for Kofi Kingston:
That's the kind of babyface Kofi Kingston can be. I hope we see a vicious Kofi at the Elimination Chamber PPV. I'd like to see him eliminate The Miz and maybe even Dolph Ziggler or R-Truth. He would not make a bad choice for Money in the Bank Ladder Match winner at WrestleMania XXVIII; but I think that goes to Dolph Ziggler. Kofi could still potentially steal the show, however. Then maybe give him a one-on-one match with Dolph at Extreme Rules (which I still think should be Backlash), and Kofi can get the pin there, and look like he can hang with the main event crust of the WWE. Then let him move into a program with Chris Jericho, or something. Kofi could have a sleeper year in 2012. |
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02-20-2012, 09:02 PM
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#16 |
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Posts: 348
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Zack Ryder: not right now
Jack Swagger:i dont know I think turning him face would be like orton's first face turn in 2004 and only last for a couple of months so i say no Kofi Kingston:kofi should stay face but i cant him serious as a world champion right now unless they bring back the serious Kofi that fuededwith orton in 2009 John Cena yes Big Show yes Cody Rhodesnot right now Drew McIntyre yes Mark Henry no Randy Orton not right now |
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