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Old 06-20-2012, 06:02 PM   #1
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phantom menace is much better in retrospect
The first time I watched it my expectations were high, and I was distracted by the newness of all the CGI. Watching it back now I realize every scene is so detailed, and if nothing else it enhances the original trilogy quite a bit.

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Old 06-20-2012, 06:11 PM   #2
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I think it's much worse in retrospect. I loved it when it first came out because it was new Star Wars stuff. Then as I got older and rewatched it I'd be like "ugh" at so many things. I'm don't have that "fanboy" mindset or whatever you want to call it where I basically won't watch any of the prequels, I do stil lenjoy parts of them and can happily sit and watch them, but it's definitely a worse film in retrospect for me.
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Old 06-20-2012, 06:28 PM   #3
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Much better in retrospect. Feels the most like a "classic" Star Wars film. I go back and forth on if I rank Episode I or Episode III first in the new trilogy.
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Old 06-20-2012, 06:29 PM   #4
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I like it. But yeah, easily worse of all six.

On the other hand, Revenge of the Sith is my favorite so there ya go.
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Old 06-20-2012, 06:46 PM   #5
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I'd go on a rant about why Phantom Menace (and all three of the prequels) are fundamentally broken as movies and especially as tie-ins to the original Trilogy, but the Red Letter Media guys already did it so much better than I ever could.

Granted, each of those videos is at the very least 45 minutes long and deconstructs pretty much every frame and line of dialogue in each movie, so I'd only recommend watching those reviews if you're planning on making an evening of it.
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Old 06-20-2012, 07:11 PM   #6
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Never cared for vids that deconstruct movies as an extended bad review. You don't like it, fine, movie on.
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Old 06-20-2012, 09:55 PM   #7
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its still really bad
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Old 06-21-2012, 07:37 AM   #8
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Attack of the Clones in a lot of ways is actually worse, but Attack of the Clones with Chad Vader riff trax is awesome.

Revenge of the Sith is the only quality movie in the new trilogy.
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Old 06-21-2012, 07:50 AM   #9
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I like it. It's easily the weakest of all the Star Wars films, but it's still a good movie. Has some pretty decent fight scenes, and firmly establishes the characters and species of the prequel trilogy.
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Old 06-21-2012, 08:00 AM   #10
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had they ended it with Darth Maul killing everyone and then retroactively killing everyone in the originals I would agree

Darth Maul is badass
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Old 06-21-2012, 08:27 AM   #11
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True story. Maul really shouldn't have been killed in Episode 1. Maul almost made up for Jar Jar Binks and that little shithead playing Anakin. Maul should have been an essential part to Anakin falling to the Dark Side.
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Old 06-21-2012, 09:05 AM   #12
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i like even the worst star wars better than avatar.
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Old 06-21-2012, 09:39 AM   #13
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Yeah,

Maul should have escaped, battered and bruised by Obi Wan, but still having killed Qui Gon and creating the reason for Obi Wan to train Anakin.

Maul could basically slide into Darth Tyranus' role in the next two, and even Grievous. After 3 films, Obi Wan finally avenges Qui Gonn and kills Maul, only to return and find a corrupted Anakin.
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Old 06-21-2012, 09:41 AM   #14
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Seems like they missed on the "core" of Anakins story.

They needed to show the amazing bond between master and Padawan, so that Anakins Heel turn hit harder. They needed to stress in the next movies that it was only because of Qui Gonn that Anakin became a jedi, and that his death motivated Obi Wan.


Fucking new trilogy and its shit.
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Old 06-21-2012, 09:54 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lock Jaw View Post
Much better in retrospect. Feels the most like a "classic" Star Wars film. I go back and forth on if I rank Episode I or Episode III first in the new trilogy.
Really?

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I'd go on a rant about why Phantom Menace (and all three of the prequels) are fundamentally broken as movies and especially as tie-ins to the original Trilogy, but the Red Letter Media guys already did it so much better than I ever could.

Granted, each of those videos is at the very least 45 minutes long and deconstructs pretty much every frame and line of dialogue in each movie, so I'd only recommend watching those reviews if you're planning on making an evening of it.
Some of the most brilliant comedy work on the internet right now is coming from those guys.
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Old 06-21-2012, 09:54 AM   #16
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They did a better job showing the relationship in the novelizations, but not much. Anakin was always sort of a douche and that's why the heel turn didn't hit harder. Not sure how Anakin and Obi-Won became "good friends" as ObiWon said in Episode IV.

"He was the best starfighter in the galaxy, but he was a total douchebag and didn't do anything I said. He also wasn't good at keeping his lightsabers. Here's the only one he didn't destroy boy."

(Throws the lightsaber at Luke)
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Old 06-21-2012, 10:24 AM   #17
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Darth Maul was bad ass, true. They blew it with him IMO also. Jar Jar character was too over the top, that whole species was just too stupid. Had they done a better job with(out) Jar Jar and the species he was, that movie would have been much more passable.

The whole FORCE explanation was gawd-awful too. Why explain it as a blood stream thing and not keep it mysterious. There was no reason to make it out to be so 'sciency....' if you get my meaning.
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Old 06-21-2012, 10:52 AM   #18
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if nothing else it enhances the original trilogy quite a bit.
You had a reasonable argument until then.

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I'd go on a rant about why Phantom Menace (and all three of the prequels) are fundamentally broken as movies and especially as tie-ins to the original Trilogy, but the Red Letter Media guys already did it so much better than I ever could.
Ah, Red Letter Media: Destroying independent thought.

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Revenge of the Sith is the only quality movie in the new trilogy.
I don't know about that. Much as I want to hate Episode 2, it does feature Jar Jar being the mastermind behind the downfall of the Republic. Tell me that's not fucking quality.

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Darth Maul is badass
Come out of the closet already.

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Seems like they missed on the "core" of Anakins story.

They needed to show the amazing bond between master and Padawan, so that Anakins Heel turn hit harder. They needed to stress in the next movies that it was only because of Qui Gonn that Anakin became a jedi, and that his death motivated Obi Wan.


Fucking new trilogy and its shit.
More importantly, they needed to make us give a shit. It's only a tragic downfall if you care. If you're sitting there hoping he dies like some new torture porn horror flick, something's wrong.

I mean, there's not even a surprise, as it's a prequel and they established who Vader was in the 80s. So the only thing left is the journey, and the journey kind of sucks.

Also:

http://youtu.be/NYakQzVyWug

(embedding disabled by request)

("The High Ground" doesn't really bother me much, but it's amusing to see someone rant about it)
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Old 06-21-2012, 11:00 AM   #19
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had they ended it with Darth Maul killing everyone and then retroactively killing everyone in the originals I would agree

And then stand there and watch as someone flips over him and cuts him in half.

Biggest dissapointment imo, was grievous. He was so badass in the cartoon. Taking on multiple jedi at once.

Then the movie comes out, and he loses in like 10 seconds to one jedi.

All of you should watch the new Clone Wars show. Far better than the prequels.
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Old 06-21-2012, 11:06 AM   #20
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Then the movie comes out, and he loses in like 10 seconds to one jedi.
lolwut
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Old 06-21-2012, 11:11 AM   #21
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I like Episode 1. I wouldn't have anything against the prequels if it wasn't for Episode 2. Episode 2 makes me cringe.
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Old 06-21-2012, 12:46 PM   #22
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Quote:
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And then stand there and watch as someone flips over him and cuts him in half.

Biggest dissapointment imo, was grievous. He was so badass in the cartoon. Taking on multiple jedi at once.

Then the movie comes out, and he loses in like 10 seconds to one jedi.

All of you should watch the new Clone Wars show. Far better than the prequels.
Im OK with him getting owned by Obi Wan, as at that point Obi Wan is the strongest master. Had they actually built him up like he should have been, it would have been ok.

I never really thought until later how other than Palpatine and maybe Yoda (prior to getting hurt) Obi Wan and Anakin battling on the Lava planet was the most powerful Jedi vs the Most powerful Sith.
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Old 06-21-2012, 12:47 PM   #23
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My only problem with Grievous is that unless you see the Cartoons, then he is just a kind of pussy scared weakling, not a legit threat that is bad ass.
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Old 06-21-2012, 01:07 PM   #24
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There wasn't enough synergy between the Clone Wars [2D] cartoon and the eventual Episode 3.

But it pretty much cements, just as Clone Wars [3D] is doing now, that Star Wars is continually done better by people not named George Lucas.
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Old 06-21-2012, 01:09 PM   #25
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I remeber loving the Clone Wars [2D] cartoon. Still haven't watched any of the "new" one.
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Old 06-21-2012, 01:23 PM   #26
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The current cartoon is fucking awesome. I give them complete authority to just continue on through Episode 3, 4, 5, and 6. The movie premier was just especially cheesy, but the series itself is right up there with KOTOR as far SW products go. They make you care about the clones dammit.
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Old 06-21-2012, 01:41 PM   #27
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A Star Wars show/movie that doesn't start with the Fox fanfare thing doesn't count.
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Old 06-21-2012, 01:42 PM   #28
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Saw this on the big screen when they played it a few months ago. It was fucking awful. The dialogue is terrible. Simply terrible.
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Old 06-21-2012, 01:53 PM   #29
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Phantom Menace in 3D made 43 million in box office. Not sure if it justifies them doing it for the other ones.

Really should have just done it for 3, 4, 5 and 6.
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Old 06-21-2012, 01:55 PM   #30
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Y'know what, while I'm thinking about it? Fuck Darth Maul.

The only thing Maul did that was actually worth noting was that he finally surpassed Boba Fett for the coveted title of "Most Pointlessly Idolized Character For No Other Reason Than Because He Looks Cool." At least Boba Fett following Han Solo actually moved the plot forward. All Darth Maul did was say two or three lines and show up twice to waste the Jedi's time. Even at the end, when he breaks the Jedi off to keep them from helping Amidala capture Gunray, the good guys end up taking the throne room anyway even without the Jedi's help, which renders his being there totally pointless.

Okay, yeah, so he kills Qui Gon, but at that point, so what? The Council ends up agreeing to train Anakin like he wanted, which was pretty much Qui Gon's whole reason for being there. The only difference is that now he's trained by Obi-Wan instead, which we never see anyway because they jump ahead to when Anakin's old enough to sleep with Natalie Portman without it being overtly creepy.

And as for bringing him back for multiple movies, seriously? Have you seen Ray Park try to act? I mean, he's a great martial artist and a hell of a nice guy from everything I've seen, but if there's one thing he's not it's a master thespian, sure as hell not enough to carry several movies. Lucas couldn't even get good performances out of Ewan McGregor, Liam Neeson, and Natalie Portman, let alone a stunt-man who isn't even an actual actor.

I'm sure the character is more interesting in the books, but a movie should be able to stand on its own without the audience having to do homework first. And going by the movie, Darth Maul is just a nothing character, who says nothing worth quoting and does nothing but chew up several minutes with mindless lightsaber kung fu. Looks cool, but that's all he's got going for him.
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:03 PM   #31
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As a stand alone movie i found it pretty meh but as part of the trilogy or even as the 1st of 6 movies it has its place for establishing characters etc. Although theres so many plot holes that open up with the prequels you can't really put all that much thought into it anyways.
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:05 PM   #32
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I'm glad to have sparked such a worthwhile discussion. Another reason I think I like it more now is a bit of nostalgia, as the movies did come out right when I was the age group they targeted.
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:14 PM   #33
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Main thing I hate about the prequels is the way they are filmed and the technology that's used in them. Seems like all the technology is crazy advanced in the prequels, which makes no sense because there is virtually NONE in 4-6 which was only like 20 years between 3 and 4.

As for the way they are filmed, I love the darker gritty feeling of 4-6. Just the way it was filmed was really quality and made everything feel real. Everything in 1-3 was too clean and shiny. Just looked like CGI in every other scene.
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Old 06-21-2012, 03:41 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowhere Man View Post
Y'know what, while I'm thinking about it? Fuck Darth Maul.

The only thing Maul did that was actually worth noting was that he finally surpassed Boba Fett for the coveted title of "Most Pointlessly Idolized Character For No Other Reason Than Because He Looks Cool." At least Boba Fett following Han Solo actually moved the plot forward. All Darth Maul did was say two or three lines and show up twice to waste the Jedi's time. Even at the end, when he breaks the Jedi off to keep them from helping Amidala capture Gunray, the good guys end up taking the throne room anyway even without the Jedi's help, which renders his being there totally pointless.

Okay, yeah, so he kills Qui Gon, but at that point, so what? The Council ends up agreeing to train Anakin like he wanted, which was pretty much Qui Gon's whole reason for being there. The only difference is that now he's trained by Obi-Wan instead, which we never see anyway because they jump ahead to when Anakin's old enough to sleep with Natalie Portman without it being overtly creepy.

And as for bringing him back for multiple movies, seriously? Have you seen Ray Park try to act? I mean, he's a great martial artist and a hell of a nice guy from everything I've seen, but if there's one thing he's not it's a master thespian, sure as hell not enough to carry several movies. Lucas couldn't even get good performances out of Ewan McGregor, Liam Neeson, and Natalie Portman, let alone a stunt-man who isn't even an actual actor.

I'm sure the character is more interesting in the books, but a movie should be able to stand on its own without the audience having to do homework first. And going by the movie, Darth Maul is just a nothing character, who says nothing worth quoting and does nothing but chew up several minutes with mindless lightsaber kung fu. Looks cool, but that's all he's got going for him.

So?

No one ever said they liked him because he's a deep meaningful character. Nothing wrong with liking a character because he's cool looking.
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Old 06-21-2012, 03:47 PM   #35
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Since the handicap duel made the movie for me, Darth Maul earned his place. And he's getting some decent screen time in the current cartoon.

I can agree that he should have got more face time in the movie, or at least survived for the trilogy. Surely when they seen the reaction to his reveal in the original trailer they must have thought, "Oh fuck, they are really behind this character we didn't care for at all."
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Old 06-22-2012, 12:34 AM   #36
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Also Maul started the Double-bladed Lightsaber which has become a staple in Star Wars lore/games.
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Old 06-22-2012, 08:46 AM   #37
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Quote:
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So?

No one ever said they liked him because he's a deep meaningful character. Nothing wrong with liking a character because he's cool looking.
The Child Custody case of Maul vs Maul really developed the character.
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Old 06-22-2012, 08:50 AM   #38
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Quote:
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Y'know what, while I'm thinking about it? Fuck Darth Maul.

The only thing Maul did that was actually worth noting was that he finally surpassed Boba Fett for the coveted title of "Most Pointlessly Idolized Character For No Other Reason Than Because He Looks Cool." At least Boba Fett following Han Solo actually moved the plot forward. All Darth Maul did was say two or three lines and show up twice to waste the Jedi's time. Even at the end, when he breaks the Jedi off to keep them from helping Amidala capture Gunray, the good guys end up taking the throne room anyway even without the Jedi's help, which renders his being there totally pointless.

Okay, yeah, so he kills Qui Gon, but at that point, so what? The Council ends up agreeing to train Anakin like he wanted, which was pretty much Qui Gon's whole reason for being there. The only difference is that now he's trained by Obi-Wan instead, which we never see anyway because they jump ahead to when Anakin's old enough to sleep with Natalie Portman without it being overtly creepy.

And as for bringing him back for multiple movies, seriously? Have you seen Ray Park try to act? I mean, he's a great martial artist and a hell of a nice guy from everything I've seen, but if there's one thing he's not it's a master thespian, sure as hell not enough to carry several movies. Lucas couldn't even get good performances out of Ewan McGregor, Liam Neeson, and Natalie Portman, let alone a stunt-man who isn't even an actual actor.

I'm sure the character is more interesting in the books, but a movie should be able to stand on its own without the audience having to do homework first. And going by the movie, Darth Maul is just a nothing character, who says nothing worth quoting and does nothing but chew up several minutes with mindless lightsaber kung fu. Looks cool, but that's all he's got going for him.
Way to look way too deep into it.

People liked him because

1 ) He looks amazing. Like no other character before.
2) He has a Bad ass name. Darth Maul. Champ Name.
3) He has a DOUBLE SIDED LIGHTSABER! HOLY FUCK WE HAD NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THAT BEFORE. AND IT WAS RED. I remember seeing it the first time and I nearly shit in my pants.
4) He had the best "fight scene" choreography wise in any of the 6 films. It wasnt as emotional as the Obiwan/Vader fights or the Luke/Vader/Palpatine shits, but was amazing.
5) At that point he is the only person we have seen besides Vader that killed a Jedi.
6) Double bladed FUCKING lightsaber.

Not sure why this is an issue to you.
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Old 06-22-2012, 08:54 AM   #39
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Quote:
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The current cartoon is fucking awesome. I give them complete authority to just continue on through Episode 3, 4, 5, and 6. The movie premier was just especially cheesy, but the series itself is right up there with KOTOR as far SW products go. They make you care about the clones dammit.
I've never actually seen any of the cartoons. How many different ones/seasons are there? Are they canon? Where would be best to start?
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Old 06-22-2012, 09:16 AM   #40
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The only reason to watch the prequels is Natalie Portman's midriff. Otherwise, they suck donkey balls, particularly Episode I.
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