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Old 01-17-2013, 05:11 PM   #41
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Compare cycling with Lance Armstrong to cycling without Lance Armstrong. While the sport has existed and will continue to do so, it was very limited and Lance Armstrong exposed the sport to generations who are might decide to compete in it rather than be completely unaware of it.
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Old 01-17-2013, 05:16 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
While a sad story, the crucifixion of Lance Armstrong is quite ridiculous. He may have harmed his sport, but he has done more good with his fame than harm he did to the sport. The US is not the center of the world, but it is the primary focus of the world's attention. Being as how we are always at fault for the bad in the world and always responsible for fixing all the problems in the world.
No it isn't. It's not my primary focus. I doubt it is anyone's primary focus outside of the US. Actually the issue here is that for years Lance Armstrong was accused of cheating and he denied it and the US assertion was that it was European jealousy. So there's much more to it than you say.

Furthermore, I doubt Lance Armstrong did that much for cycling participation. It was always a niche sport that was popular in certain places and it pretty much remains so. Maybe in the US you can go on about it inspiring generations, but then again the high profile nature of his cheating admission has probably tarnished it many more people's eyes.
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Old 01-17-2013, 05:23 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Capitano Gatisto View Post
No it isn't. It's not my primary focus. I doubt it is anyone's primary focus outside of the US. Actually the issue here is that for years Lance Armstrong was accused of cheating and he denied it and the US assertion was that it was European jealousy. So there's much more to it than you say.

Furthermore, I doubt Lance Armstrong did that much for cycling participation. It was always a niche sport that was popular in certain places and it pretty much remains so. Maybe in the US you can go on about it inspiring generations, but then again the high profile nature of his cheating admission has probably tarnished it many more people's eyes.
I still think it being on the front page of the papers with a "black eye" that will fade away in history is better than if it had been on the back page of the sports page instead. The steroid scandals haven't killed baseball's international growth has it?
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Old 01-17-2013, 05:26 PM   #44
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No idea. No one gives a shit about baseball outside of the US, Japan and a few places in Central America as far as I know. You might even be joking and I wouldn't have a clue.
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Old 01-17-2013, 05:43 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
While a sad story, the crucifixion of Lance Armstrong is quite ridiculous. He may have harmed his sport, but he has done more good with his fame than harm he did to the sport. The US is not the center of the world, but it is the primary focus of the world's attention. Being as how we are always at fault for the bad in the world and always responsible for fixing all the problems in the world.
He made adverts about how he cycled without drugs for Nike, literally selling himself on the basis that he didn't dope. He appeared in the movie Dodgeball, playing himself, to present a man who does the right thing in the face of adversity. He turned himself into a celebrity brand, and now he's getting the celebrity attention, oh no, please don't look at me, I'm just a simple man, I defrauded my sponsors and lied under oath, why are you being so harsh, I brought cycling to the civilised world. I get other people to pay money for charity, just like Jimmy Savile, by lying to them.
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Old 01-17-2013, 05:55 PM   #46
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I'm not saying he is right, but he is getting hammered while much more vile shithead "celebrities" don't get this kind of reaction. Is Lance Armstrong a shitbag, yes, but at least a lot of positives came out of it. Whether by hook or by crook, good came out of this.
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:17 PM   #47
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Good for him. He's now waited until he's outside the statute of limitations to be charged with the perjury he commited. 'Hammered' is hardly a term considering he's having a load of articles written about this. He can't exactly claim credit for the 'good'. Livestrong is about cancer 'awareness' anyway. It's cancer ffs, it's hardly an underdog cause. He at least successed in making it into a sellable brand and making it all about him as the new messiah, with a mantra and braclets with his name on to inspire people, just like Jesus. And now he's dying for our sins and cancer
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:19 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Capitano Gatisto View Post
No idea. No one gives a shit about baseball outside of the US, Japan and a few places in Central America as far as I know. You might even be joking and I wouldn't have a clue.
So, a 1/3rd of the civilized world doesn't matter? Typical European asshattery.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:43 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
I'm not saying he is right, but he is getting hammered while much more vile shithead "celebrities" don't get this kind of reaction.

Is Lance Armstrong a shitbag, yes, but at least a lot of positives came out of it. Whether by hook or by crook, good came out of this.
Name much more vile shithead celebrities

Name a lot of positives/the good that came out of it.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:46 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
So, a 1/3rd of the civilized world doesn't matter? Typical European asshattery.
6.7 billion
minus 350 million
minus 120 million
minus 100 million

570 million is approx. 1/13th but hey math, my isn't my strong suit
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:16 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Capitano Gatisto View Post
No idea. No one gives a shit about baseball outside of the US, Japan and a few places in Central America as far as I know. You might even be joking and I wouldn't have a clue.
By the same token, no one here gave a shit about the "Tour De France" until Lance Armstrong showed up and made every rider his bitch, winning 7 titles.

And no one gives a shit about it now, post-Armstrong.
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:29 PM   #52
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So?
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:31 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
So, a 1/3rd of the civilized world doesn't matter? Typical European asshattery.
Typical American dearth of self-awareness. Baseball means nothing globally, it's a niche. Cricket dwarfs it in popularity via the Indian subcontinent alone. Is that difficult for you to understand?

America not being interested in a sport does not equal no one being interested in it. Mainly the opposite to be honest, since the US is culturally isolated.
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:40 PM   #54
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Cool
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOUR Hero View Post

570 million is approx. 1/13th but hey math, my isn't my strong suit
Obviously your strong suit is grammar!
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Old 01-18-2013, 05:29 PM   #55
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Who gives a shit about people who worship goats?
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:09 PM   #56
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If Armstrong was doping before he had cancer, is there any chance that caused his cancer?
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:51 PM   #57
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I'm not an evil genius like ECG, but I'd imagine it'd be hard to prove since there isn't exactly a bunch of studies on the correlation of blood doping and cancer.
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:44 AM   #58
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Dude was taking out blood, mixing it up chemicals, and putting it back in.

That I did not know.

Also, Lance really shot himself in the foot today during the 2nd part of the interview. He said he should get a second chance. Why? Because he deserves it.

That just made him look like an asshole. There are better ways to plea your case, even if you do deserve another chance.
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Old 01-19-2013, 04:44 AM   #59
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Came off like a massive piece of shit in the interview.

The issue isn't just that he cheated. He ruined people's lives for speaking the truth.

Fuck Lance Armstrong.
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:20 AM   #60
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are convicted felons who have "served their time" banned from taking part in sanctioned events like marathons and so forth?
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:18 AM   #61
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Who gives a shit about people who worship goats?
what is wrong with worshiping goats?
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:19 AM   #62
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maybe I worship goats
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:20 AM   #63
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and Lance is a fraud. Also, who is Spilchuk and why is he or she a shithead?
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:35 AM   #64
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Quote:
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If Armstrong was doping before he had cancer, is there any chance that caused his cancer?
Nope.

Also having had cancer doesn't mean a person can't be an absolute prick.
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Old 01-21-2013, 03:18 PM   #65
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Only having 1 nut is pretty good reason to be a prick though. Always feel like you gotta make up for it.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:37 AM   #66
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People want it to be true because it makes a good story, that's all.

As I said before Livestrong is an "awareness" charity so, aside from the fact that it's still mostly about brand and image, I was reading the obvious reasons why these things are popular. I've mentioned in the past that plenty of these charities end up with people drawing insane salaries from them, but also Lance could do 'events' to promote the Livestrong foundation and then charge them a speaker's fee for as much money as he wanted.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:13 PM   #67
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He used his celebrity to make money. The evil bastard!
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Old 01-26-2013, 06:09 PM   #68
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Some people were on the tele yesterday tlking about how he lied in the Oprah interview. These people want him to come clean or they're going to sue him... somehing like that. Did anyne else here about this? I caught the tail end of it.
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Old 01-26-2013, 06:10 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
He used his celebrity to make money. The evil bastard!
Have you adressed your opinion on what he did to silence people?
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Old 01-26-2013, 07:37 PM   #70
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Yes. I believe it was "Fuck them."

They just wanted a slice of the pie and sued the fuck out him. He fought back. Now, they will get another day in court and pick off the remains like the cowardly vultures they are.
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Old 01-26-2013, 07:38 PM   #71
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You don't see all MLB players who were clean trying to sue the shit out of Sosa, McGwire, Bonds, Clemens, etc. do you? No because it is fucking stupid.
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:36 PM   #72
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You defend Lance Armstrong selling himself, commiting fraud, lying and manipulating people for money and then criticise other people because you imagine they only want money.
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:38 PM   #73
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He cheated, but still made money by riding the fuck out of bicycle. They tried to make money by selling him out. Slight difference.
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:38 PM   #74
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I don't believe in the concept of "no honor among thieves".
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:55 AM   #75
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Quote:
Gore Vidal:

'The four most beautiful words in the English language: "I told you so".'
To the fanboys say all he did was take drugs - he didn't just do that, he caused people to lose their jobs, those who criticised him were harassed for years (for example the Andreau's used to receive threatening phone calls from Armstrong fans). Not just for a short while but for over a decade.

While Armstrong and his cronies lined their pockets, others suffered, all for his ego.

James Steele - you quite clearly know nothing of their stories and instead choose to drink the Armstrong kool aid.

Tell me - how have Betsy Andreau or Paul Kimmage, or Christophe Bassons, Pippo Simeoni etc enriched themselves by exposing Armstrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Droford View Post
If Armstrong was doping before he had cancer, is there any chance that caused his cancer?

Yes there is - and this is why the 'Hospital incident' is so key to the whole story. The doctors asked Armstrong if he had doped before he had had cancer. He listed in the presence of the Andreaus, a rep from Oakley and I believe one other person all the drugs he had taken.

Joe Papp and other dopers have spoken out about the health issues that they have suffered and that they believe were caused by their doping.
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