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Old 11-23-2016, 11:05 AM   #1
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Smark Era..... Good or Bad?
So we have been in this snark era for awhile now. Whenever there is a semi awesome spot in a match we get the "Holy Shit" and "This is Awesome" chants. We have AJ Styles and a dude with more body fat than Curtis as our champions. Everything the internet community wanted basically.

Is this really good though? These wrestlers are not larger than life like Cena, Rock, Brock, Kurt, Goldberg, and such. Vince wanted to make Reigns into a huge deal like them but people wanted AJ and such insteadd. I don't think the current setup is designed to succeed. No matter how wonderful you book AJ he will never be able to compete against Brock and Goldberg. The mystique of these huge ass dudes beating the pissed out of each other is gone.

Are you in favor of this era? Even if you are, do you believe it is setting WWE to succeed or fail in the long run?

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But you're attractive. Work it.
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Old 11-23-2016, 11:13 AM   #2
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It's turned me off current wrestling. I watch to see the wrestlers get themselves over, not the fans.
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Old 11-23-2016, 11:21 AM   #3
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Bad. /thread
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Old 11-23-2016, 12:18 PM   #4
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It is annoying, but I don't think either Owens or AJ are bad champs at all. Balor winning the title was a joke though so this smarky era is dangerous. The holy shit chants and this awesome chants annoy the fuck out of me when the spot doesn't deserve the chant.
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Old 11-23-2016, 12:22 PM   #5
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People chanted holy shit when Undertaker showed up..........................really?
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Old 11-23-2016, 12:23 PM   #6
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The chants "this is awesome"/"holy shit" are about the performances in the ring. I also have no problem with "you deserve it." All of those chants are about praising the wrestlers so there should be no problem with it.

The sour part is when the crowd tries to hijack the crowd with chants that are not about a superstar or solely about themselves. When Baron Corbin debuted on Raw after WrestleMania there was a beachball that was floating around the floor. It got confiscated and the fans booed. Throughout the entire match they chanted "hey we want some beach ball!" like Bayley's chant. It ruined Corbin's debut after winning the Battle Royal.

Also "we are awesome" has to stop.
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Old 11-23-2016, 01:35 PM   #7
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Baron Corbin wouldn't have had that problem if he wasn't so bland and boring.
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Old 11-23-2016, 01:57 PM   #8
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He's contemplative.
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Old 11-23-2016, 02:06 PM   #9
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It's such a tough line to walk. On the one hand the annoying fans that ruin aspects of shows are the same people that buy the Mania travel package, subsribe to The Network, go to three shows in one weekend, but merch, and will never stop watching.

But what appeals to them in my opinion will never help grow the business. When you read fantasy booking on places like this, you see what these people like, and you can see how it only would appeal to the hardcore sports entertainment fans.

I listened to Baron Corbin on Talking Smack and his comments resonated with me. While guys like Daniel Bryan can get over to a massive degree with the captive audience, I don't think those types of guys will ever grow the fanbase. Not to say I think Baron Corbin will. But I do believe a guy more similar to Baron Corbin is more likely to grow the base than a guy like Bryan.

The good thing for WWE is they figured out a way to get more revenue out of the hardcore fans with The Network, so it makes financial sense to cater to them by pushing indy looking guys over guys who look like real stars. The risk is have they alienated so many casual fans that it will hurt them when it comes time to negotiate a new TV deal. On the other hand, what if they decided to bring all of their TV content in house to The Network? Can they bring in another million subs that way? If that happens, then you have to keep catering to those smark fans and that will just be the new reality.
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Old 11-23-2016, 04:25 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruien View Post
So we have been in this snark era for awhile now. Whenever there is a semi awesome spot in a match we get the "Holy Shit" and "This is Awesome" chants. We have AJ Styles and a dude with more body fat than Curtis as our champions. Everything the internet community wanted basically.
I didn't want this.

I'm cool with Styles as champ though. I think he's a pretty good heel champion and a perfect fit on SmackDown. I'm really enjoying his stuff.

As for Owens, he's just shite.

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I also have no problem with "you deserve it." All of those chants are about praising the wrestlers so there should be no problem with it.
The problem there is that the Smarks chant that to all their "Internet Darlings", so they chanted it to Kevin Owens, even though Owens is a heel (and a big one at that) and cheated/got help to win the title.

Why would you congratulate and praise someone like that who's a bad guy and didn't win the title "legitimately"?

I'm not a fan of the Smark chants.

Chanting "Holy Shit" when two people are staring each other in the ring or "This Is Awesome" when someone pulls out a move that some Japanese wrestler does, is just annoying now.

I'm also not a fan of chants that follow wrestlers from the Indies, like Sami Zayn's "Ole" chant. To me, that chant is El Generico's and Sami Zayn is not El Generico. He's Sami Zayn. If El Generico came to the WWE and then unmasked and proclaimed to be Sami Zayn, then sure, "Ole" chant until your heart's content.

I also wouldn't say it annoys me as such, but when UK fans create a chant that follows a wrestler, that "gets to me" a bit, like Enzo's chant where his name is sung to the tune of "Seven Nation Army" or "Fandangoing".

It's hard to put into words, but whenever fans that aren't British do that, it just feels like they're trying too hard to be British fans and failing at it. It just feels weird.
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Old 11-23-2016, 04:26 PM   #11
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They need TV slots or else they will be a niche product.
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Old 11-23-2016, 04:26 PM   #12
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Quote:
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Baron Corbin wouldn't have had that problem if he wasn't so bland and boring.
Yes.
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Old 11-23-2016, 04:28 PM   #13
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Quote:
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It's hard to put into words, but whenever fans that aren't British do that, it just feels like they're trying too hard to be British fans and failing at it. It just feels weird.
Damn culture vultures.
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Old 11-23-2016, 04:29 PM   #14
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Unfortunately you can't avoid the smark era. Information is too readily available on the internet.
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Old 11-23-2016, 05:06 PM   #15
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Don't have a problem with the era itself since its lead to better in-ring quality but could be better off with less moments of the crowds trying to make things about themselves.

Crowds are no longer interested in Vince's vision or preference for wrestling and WWE has done a horrible job transitioning to this new era because they keep being stubborn on listening or gauging what the crowds want. The Cena model no longer really works although could argue that model had a very short shelf life since Cena failed at carrying his kids market into becoming new long term viewers.

Crowds seemed to be more interested in Triple H's vision based on how he's running NXT and him wanting to bring back more NWA/WCW aspects to WWE style wrestling like Cruisers.
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Old 11-23-2016, 05:24 PM   #16
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I'd rather have a loud crowd than a silent one, so I like the crowds.

Love them or hate them, it's all WWE's fault for them. They've driven away their casual audience with terrible TV and that's all they have left.
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Old 11-23-2016, 05:42 PM   #17
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Modern WWE is booked exactly like how I used to book my EWR games. Mostly talented wrestlers working long matches on TV every week, mostly 50/50 booking to appease the EWR feud system so one guy didn't dominate the storyline.

Only difference is in EWR people got over by doing that.
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Old 11-23-2016, 06:55 PM   #18
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Booking has EVERYTHING to do with it. Do you honestly believe that Brock and Goldberg would be over at all if they'd been booked as badly as everyone is today? If so you're daft. Ryback and Reigns falling flat are the most recent proof that size doesn't = success, and there's plenty of others that have proved this point as well. On the flip side guys like Shawn Michaels, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, etc are proof that a guy can be larger than life without being physical giants.

You're also not factoring in the cultural shift that has occurred outside of wrestling. People are leaning more and more every day toward more "realistic" and "relateable." In fact relateability has become a major selling point in most works of fiction these days. People want heroes that they can project themselves onto. Hell, even our action heroes are changing. You don't see many Schwarzeneggers or Stallones anymore. Even in comic books which are the closest thing to wrestling you are seeing fewer and fewer of the quintessential superheroes and more "average" characters. It makes sense that wrestling would make this shift too, especially given the current feeling toward steroids and whatnot.

Anyway onto the actual question. No, I don't totally enjoy the current era, but not because of the wrestlers involved. The talent is fine, and in fact I'd argue it's probably the best roster overall that WWE's ever had (note I said overall. This is because other eras have had a few guys like the Rock who beat out everyone, but outside of those few greats their rosters of peers were often meh in comparison.) The reason I don't quite enjoy wrestling today is because of the 50/50 booking, and the awful writing. It's like getting together an extremely solid cast of actors and then giving them the worst possible script and director.

All of that said I've come to terms with what's going on right now. I manage to find enjoyment in what wrestling is now even if it will never actually be legitimately good again. It's pretty much a guilty pleasure to me now. A Sharknado if you will. Yeah, it's bad, but there are certain moments that are legit entertaining sprinkled in, and even the bad such as Elsworth is so bad that it's hilarious.
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Old 11-23-2016, 07:14 PM   #19
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WCW proved that you can do both, you can have great matches and then stars at the top of the card, the problem, as they found out, is that you have to create new stars eventually and the workers need upward mobility. Its that balancing act that noone has found a formula for.

Right now on WWE TV, there are no stars. Not when you define a star as a Hogan, Stone Cold, or even a HHH, Angle, Sting, Undertaker. Just a glimpse at how over Goldberg is can tell you that. It is a different leve totally, a different planet.

How do you make stars without stars? It's a tough one, but I don't think they have even tried. Whether that is a positive thing depends on if you like what you are watching right now. A world where WWE is the only star.
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Old 11-23-2016, 08:01 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishbone View Post
Booking has EVERYTHING to do with it. Do you honestly believe that Brock and Goldberg would be over at all if they'd been booked as badly as everyone is today? If so you're daft. Ryback and Reigns falling flat are the most recent proof that size doesn't = success, and there's plenty of others that have proved this point as well. On the flip side guys like Shawn Michaels, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, etc are proof that a guy can be larger than life without being physical giants.

You're also not factoring in the cultural shift that has occurred outside of wrestling. People are leaning more and more every day toward more "realistic" and "relateable." In fact relateability has become a major selling point in most works of fiction these days. People want heroes that they can project themselves onto. Hell, even our action heroes are changing. You don't see many Schwarzeneggers or Stallones anymore. Even in comic books which are the closest thing to wrestling you are seeing fewer and fewer of the quintessential superheroes and more "average" characters. It makes sense that wrestling would make this shift too, especially given the current feeling toward steroids and whatnot.

Anyway onto the actual question. No, I don't totally enjoy the current era, but not because of the wrestlers involved. The talent is fine, and in fact I'd argue it's probably the best roster overall that WWE's ever had (note I said overall. This is because other eras have had a few guys like the Rock who beat out everyone, but outside of those few greats their rosters of peers were often meh in comparison.) The reason I don't quite enjoy wrestling today is because of the 50/50 booking, and the awful writing. It's like getting together an extremely solid cast of actors and then giving them the worst possible script and director.

All of that said I've come to terms with what's going on right now. I manage to find enjoyment in what wrestling is now even if it will never actually be legitimately good again. It's pretty much a guilty pleasure to me now. A Sharknado if you will. Yeah, it's bad, but there are certain moments that are legit entertaining sprinkled in, and even the bad such as Elsworth is so bad that it's hilarious.
I have said on here before and I don't see Ryback as a giant or anything. The guy has huge muscles but is short(er) and doesn't seem strong; he seems to struggle with basic power moves. Also, Hbk, Y2J and Angle were huge compared to guys today. Even though Guerrero was short he was juiced to the gills and was larger than the guys today. They were comparatively small back then but they are still stars today and ohysical size playes a role.
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Old 11-23-2016, 08:23 PM   #21
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Eddie was fucking jacked and so was Angle. Check out Eddie vs Benoit at ONS. They were both juiced to the gills.
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Old 11-23-2016, 10:07 PM   #22
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I have said on here before and I don't see Ryback as a giant or anything. The guy has huge muscles but is short(er) and doesn't seem strong; he seems to struggle with basic power moves. Also, Hbk, Y2J and Angle were huge compared to guys today. Even though Guerrero was short he was juiced to the gills and was larger than the guys today. They were comparatively small back then but they are still stars today and ohysical size playes a role.
You sound confused about what you yourself even believes is "big." You say that Ryback isn't big because he's short, but then say that it's not the height it's the muscles when talking about guys like Guerrero and Angle. I realize that I too was a bit vague here, but you're outright contradicting yourself.

Also, Ryback is 6' 3'' tall. Are you seriously calling that short? The Rock is only 2 inches taller, Steve Austin is 2 inches shorter, and John Cena is 3 inches shorter. Ryback is exactly the right size to be considered the prototypical WWE superstar. Same applies to Reigns. Anything over 6' is well above average height and will look like a beast next to your average man.

As for Guerrero and company being much more ripped, yes, they most certainly were, but as I stated in my previous comment muscle isn't really that relevant anymore. Those sort of physiques aren't looked at in a good light anymore by the general public. In fact most people immediately jump to say that anyone with any amount of "big" muscle is on steroids. I have literally never seen anyone argue that that sort of physique was attractive outside the wrestling world in well over a decade.

Now I'll agree that muscle tone definitely does play some roll. A guy that looks like Randy Orton or even AJ Styles (who is in great shape compared to normal people) are going to have a much easier time of looking like larger than life characters than a Kevin Owens or CM Punk, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's impossible, nor does it mean that the guy looking like Orton will actually be perceived that way. That sort of look is just icing on the cake, not a necessity. Like I said before people gravitated to the Rock, HBK, etc because of their personalities, not because of their physiques. Looks can help catch someones eye, but they can't keep them around.

Also please note that I'm not saying that looks aren't important, just that you're looking at looks in the wrong way. Lean, athletic builds are what people see as the ideal these days. Our movie stars, professional athletes, and even pop culture characters reflect that. If your assertion that the muscles and size were what was selling these guys then Brock and the like should have been pulling in massive audiences that dwarfed what the current roster does. They should have been able to pull in tons of casuals and non-wrestling fans with the "mystique" they exuded. Instead they caused slight bumps in buy-rates and that's about it. That's because even this larger than life men with bodies like Greek gods only brought in old wrestling fans who'd stopped watching. They brought in casuals who already had an interest in wrestling and likely tuned in not because they saw two monsters on a poster but because they saw their childhood heroes on said poster. It's the nostalgia, not the muscles that sold them, and that's the biggest mistake I see people here making. A lot of you seem to think that wrestling still has the ability to be as popular as it once was, and I'm sorry to say that it doesn't. Wrestling is a niche product for a nerdy subculture and children. Mainstream adults will NEVER look at wrestling as cool again and no amount of musclebound giants will ever change that.
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Old 11-23-2016, 10:31 PM   #23
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I think he means 'big' as in Big Show big.
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Old 11-24-2016, 05:04 AM   #24
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I think he means 'big' as in Big Show big.
But it was said that the size of guys like Brock and Goldberg was their selling point. If that's the case Ryback should have sold too because he's roughly in their ballpark in terms of size.
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Old 11-24-2016, 07:06 AM   #25
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I like AJ Styles and I honestly believe he's got an innate charisma that would allow him to stand up there with real stars. He's not out of place working with John Cena. Kevin Owens on the other hand...you can be good in the ring and good on the mic and still be missing something that really captivates people.

The WWE ran away crowds with a casual interest in wrestling, so now all that are left are the smark crowds who get in on the trends. The only thing is that they aren't as smart as they think they are, they look dumb when get worked, and they give the WWE these false ideas like Adrian Neville and Tyler Breeze are going to be stars in any sort of main event sense. They eat up shit like Broken Matt Hardy because they think it's different, and the shit we cheer for scares most sane people away.

The suspension of disbelief element of wrestling has been thrown out the window for a "hey, look at how fake we all know it is" mentality, and nobody is really over as a result. The shitty booking doesn't help anyone, but no one really knows how to be a star. They're all drinking the Vince McMahon/Triple H kool-aid of "hey, we're all a super team and everybody gets a shot."
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Old 11-24-2016, 08:37 AM   #26
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I could actually buy Kevin Owens as a mega-heel before I could buy Styles as one.
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Old 11-24-2016, 08:43 AM   #27
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That's interesting.
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Old 11-24-2016, 09:41 AM   #28
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He's just got a better overall style. Styles is an athlete and Owens is an ass kicker. Owens looks and acts (at least when he was in NXT/when he first got called up) like one of those Vader-esque fat guys who might actually be able to beat someone up. Styles comes off more like a Mr. Perfect-esque mid carder who can feud with the top face occasionally but never in a big fight situation.

In fact, outside of Bray Wyatt, Owens might be my ideal choice for a top heel from the full-time roster.
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Old 11-24-2016, 12:15 PM   #29
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I think casual fans are turned off when they think they could beat up the wrestler. All these short skinny fat neckbeard wreslters don't translate to the casual fan. WWE is a live action cartoon/comic book. Who wants to grab a comicbook whose superhero is a regular joe? Hardcare fans do maybe.

The thhing Ryback lacked was any coordination and athletic ability. The guy was awkward and sloppy, he struggled doing power moves, and being powerful was his gimmick. It didn't work.

I am not a tough guy at all, whether on the interent or not. I don't get into fights and I steer clear of conflict. I am athletic but not a chisled god by any stretch. I am 6'4", 218lbs, I am not interested in turning on rasslin and watching guys smaller than me in height and weight competing for the heavy weight championship because it's not believable to me when they look like I can take them. Unless a smaller guy oozes charasima, can wrestle realistically, and can talk I am not tuning in to watch.
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Old 11-24-2016, 12:18 PM   #30
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I don't think that at all. The last time that WWE got any real momentum with casuals was with CM Punk. of course, only one man could ruin it
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Old 11-24-2016, 12:42 PM   #31
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Punk oozes charisma and is somewhat believable in the ring.
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Old 11-24-2016, 01:01 PM   #32
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Agreed with Stickman. I fully expect the main event wrestlers to be in better shape than me or be like Braun/Kane type of big. I should never feel I can take on the world champ. I should feel like the guy would destroy me.
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Old 11-24-2016, 01:37 PM   #33
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Exactly
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Old 11-24-2016, 01:37 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
I think casual fans are turned off when they think they could beat up the wrestler. All these short skinny fat neckbeard wreslters don't translate to the casual fan. WWE is a live action cartoon/comic book. Who wants to grab a comicbook whose superhero is a regular joe? Hardcare fans do maybe.

The thhing Ryback lacked was any coordination and athletic ability. The guy was awkward and sloppy, he struggled doing power moves, and being powerful was his gimmick. It didn't work.

I am not a tough guy at all, whether on the interent or not. I don't get into fights and I steer clear of conflict. I am athletic but not a chisled god by any stretch. I am 6'4", 218lbs, I am not interested in turning on rasslin and watching guys smaller than me in height and weight competing for the heavy weight championship because it's not believable to me when they look like I can take them. Unless a smaller guy oozes charasima, can wrestle realistically, and can talk I am not tuning in to watch.
I agree 100%.
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Old 11-24-2016, 01:39 PM   #35
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Quote:
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But it was said that the size of guys like Brock and Goldberg was their selling point. If that's the case Ryback should have sold too because he's roughly in their ballpark in terms of size.
He was very over until the WWE fucked it up
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Old 11-24-2016, 01:54 PM   #36
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He was very over until the WWE fucked it up
WWE's motto of the past decade.
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Old 11-24-2016, 01:58 PM   #37
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I don't think that at all. The last time that WWE got any real momentum with casuals was with CM Punk. of course, only one man could ruin it
Id like to see some numbers that demonstrate punk was brining in new viewers
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Old 11-24-2016, 02:05 PM   #38
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Id like to see some numbers that demonstrate punk was brining in new viewers
http://www.sescoops.com/cm-punk-drawing-power/

And that's with fucking it up straight after MITB 2011. After the "pipe-bomb", Punk was in mainstream magazines and TV shows talking about it, it got the attention they weren;t getting in the pre-ESPN partnership era.
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Old 11-24-2016, 02:43 PM   #39
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Quote:
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http://www.sescoops.com/cm-punk-drawing-power/

And that's with fucking it up straight after MITB 2011. After the "pipe-bomb", Punk was in mainstream magazines and TV shows talking about it, it got the attention they weren;t getting in the pre-ESPN partnership era.
Gotta call foul. There a lot going on during punks run. Not least of all Cena chasing the title. And then there's The rock as well. Couple that with the linchpin of the argument being battlegrounds buyrate completely ignoring the fact that there was nothing of meaning on the show. Everyone knew that show wouldnt effect mania at all. Hardly evidence of anything.

Id argue that punk pulled in departed hardcore fans that had moved on to being full time indy fans. Not casuals.
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Old 11-24-2016, 03:31 PM   #40
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I would agree. CM Punk brought this stupid era on us.
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