this years wrestlemania is MAKE IT OR BREAK IT for the WWE

Whaa whaa whaa. Oh no why is vermaat not posting? Guess what I have something called a life, look into it

In all your honesty, how will you react if WM 'breaks it' for the WWE?

I will be pretty damn upset, but I will give WWE a chance and see where they go with it. Maybe they have some aces up their sleeve.

No, you really didn't. You may think your argument explains how both can be true, but it's nonsense made to cover up an obvious contradiction.

It's all valid. WWE can go on a wrong road that can lead to their downfall. Immediately? NO. Eventually? It's possible!!!

WCW did not go out of business because it listened to it's fans. It went out of business because it didn't listen to it's fans. Bischoff and whoever else was running the show was listening to Hogan, Nash and a load of other prima donnas who thought that because they used to be big, they should be the focus of the show.

It partially went out of business because it listened to the fans. Hogan, Nash and the other OLD guys were a part of the problem too, but listening to the fans was another. This is why I am concerned that guys that are getting old in WWE are sticking around (Undertaker, Angle). But WcW only went with the NWO because it was getting a good reaction from the fans, everyone HATED it and HATED it even more the second time around and becausE WCW listened to the fans they decided that NWO worked well as a heel stable and kept them on.

I think everyone who as replied in this thread has given decent enough reasons to the whole John Cena situation. UNBIASED opinions. But you are such a fanboy you are just determined to disagree with anybody who doesn't think Cena is the be-all-and-end-all of WWE. Cena got MORE cheers after he lost the WWE title to Edge, not less. This is because the fans thought they were going to get a nice title chase, lot's of obstacles for him to overcome and prove his worth as WWE champion, much like Rock/Austin during their respective eras. (Rock wanting Triple H's title and having to go through DX; Austin wanting Rock's title and having to go through the Corporation.)

I am giving unbiased facts on John Cena. I am not thinking that he is the best ever, but face it, who else in the WWE has as much potential as he does? No one. There is no one that has as much charisma in the WWE to drive a new generation. Cena got more cheers after he lost the title to EDge because Edge sucks so much and was not ready for the title that even the guys who wanted to look "cool" didn't want to see him with the title further so they cheered Cena. Also, these fans suceeded in having Cena loose the title so they got bored with trying to screw him.

As far as I know (I may be wrong) as WWE's rating's have been steadily declining, TNA's have been steadily increasing. Granted, they are nowhere near the level of WWE yet, but all these "Fake fans" are real fans after all. Just because they are not watching WWE anymore doesn't mean they stopped watching wrestling.

TNA has no stars. TNA ratings is like 0.7. They only have gotten in the 1.0 range like once. AM RAW beats TNA in ratings. TNA is no match and if all those fake fans tha were watching WWE left and watched TNA, then TNA would get big ratings. Face it, TNA is a NICHE market.

Oh, and with regards to what the fans thought of the 619 at One Night Stand (I don't think anyone covered this) basically as soon as Psichosis was hung up on the middle rope and Rey started running, EVERYBODY booed. Not a few, EVERYBODY! Why? Because it is a boring, unrealistic, crappy move that everyone hates. (Compared to what it used to be.)

If this is what happened, then why are the fans not booing the 6-1-9 now? I think I can figure out why. A lot of the fans who came to watch One Night Stand are former ECW fans and are disgruntled at the WWE and they booed mysterio to screw with the program. Same mentality, boo the good guy (Cena, Mysterio) screw with the program. A lot were not TRUE WWE fans, they just came for ECW reunion.

BIATCH!

Don't you have homework in the 8th grade?

Are you kidding me? Rather than admit you were wrong, you're gonna serve up this bullshit souffle? In a relavent argument, you're going to use the logic of "Well, I talked to a few people..therefore, it's pretty easy to deduce what millions of fans wanted...even though I didn't watch WCW myself...or know anything about them." You have the logic of a garden gnome. Actually, you should get into politics...you could be President someday.

Yes that is called FIRST PERSON ACCOUNTS. I talked to a few people and knew the mentality of the fans because I was with a good representation of fans, the same fans that were watching WCW then, so I think they are a good source of information. And is that suppose to insult me? I'd love to be the president, it's one of the top jobs in da world.

No, you just won't admit when you're blatently wrong...even when you're caught with your pants down sodomizing a lie.

I do not lie.

Again, you state your bullshit logic as fact and keep skating around the issue that this is NOT EVEN A TOPIC ABOUT OPINIONS!! It's a FACT that ECW was ruined by Paul Heyman. You keep ignoring the fact that WWE even admits this. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with your head? Vince made jokes all the time about running Bischoff and WCW out of business because they were direct competitors. AT NO TIME DID VINCE EVER DO THAT TO PAUL HEYMAN! The joke is that Paul screwed ECW. PAUL. WWE knows this and admits it, yet you continue to insist that your "fantasy" version is the fact. Again, just admit you're wrong. You might save a shred of respect. (although I'm sure it's too late.)

I am not denying that ECW was ruined by Paul Heyman. But he was not the only factor n ruining it. He was not the sole factor. The WWE played a role in it too. Face it, if there was no WWE, then ECW would have a better chance of still being around because fans would only have two feds to watch.

What fucking program have you been watching? Again, this isn't even a topic of opinion you retard! This is something that actually happened..ALOT. Arguing otherwise just further proves you are SEVERELY out of touch with reality.

I think you are confusing "heel bischoff" getting beaten down for being a heel and Bischoff being mocked for WcW.

Don't waste your time arguing with the troll. Just point and laugh like everyone (But Kalyx, too busy worshipping his "heel" ness) else.

Your logic : Anyone who disagrees with me : TROLL.

Wow... it's amazing that I actually sat through 8 pages of this, and I still fail to see the original poster's points.

My points were that if the WWE makes a few mistakes at Wrestlemania (have Cena lose, have rey lose, have MArk Henry lose) that they will enter on a road that might lead to their destruction sometime in the far future. If they make these mistakes, WWE quality will go down.

For those of you who are just joinining us, let me give you a few "highlights" of the debate skills from this threads creator...Vermaat. This should give you an idea of the mentality we're dealing with here and why noone can find the original point he was trying to make. Enjoy!

You misunderstand my points. There is a difference between a company sucking on the whole and a company sucking in some fields. For example, you can have a computer that sucks at playing games, but does it suck on the whole? No, it is good for making spreadsheets.

Your argument about the Cruisers, for example, bleeds of inconsistencies. You say that they are lazy. What PROOF do you have of this? By your own admission, you are using "logic" to deduce this. You reason that they work hard to get to the WWE, then get lazy because they've "made it." You act like this is the ONLY explanation for WWE Cruisers using less "innovative" moves. What most people have brought up is that they have been limited. Rey's been limited too. Innovative? If he was truly being allowed to be innovative, he'd have cranked out a lot more than a 619. You're using ONE move to "prove" that a wrestler is innovative, when that move has been repeated for four yeasr on the WWE. What about Akio and his corkscrew moonsault? What about Paul London's dropsault into a moonsault splash on a second opponent? What about Jamie Noble doing that nifty sunset flip, catching on the opponents arms behind him, then spinning them into a standing flipping powerbomb? What about Nunzio's jumping armbar slam off the second rope? What about Kendrick's Sliced Bread #2? I can call each and every one of those moves just as innovative as Rey Mysterio's 619, by your own terms. How come they don't count?

This is the only explanation I can think of for cruisers to suddenly droip the quality of their matches, well, certain cruisers. Rey also has the West Coast Pop, another innovative moves and many others. If you watch a Rey match you will see, like when he twists around the wrestler and goes under him and pins him. There are too many moves for me to mention. Rey is one, no one else on the roster does the things he does. 6 1 9 is unique because of the way it utilizes the ropes, I don't see other wrestlers utilizing the ropes like this.

All the moves except Sliced Bread are innovative, I agree. However, these are the only innovative moves I see these guys pop out and they are nowhere near as fun to watch as Rey. They just aren't as fast paced and they only pull off these moves rarely. Rey pulls out the 6 1 9 in every match. Sliced Bread is pretty much a dudley dog.

Why does your theory that they are being lazy (where you have no proof) is a "fact" and yet consistently reported news about wrestlers being limited must be false? Then you say Vince keeps them because he thinks they have potential.... WHAT?! That sounds like a child saying the sky is green, then when someone says "look, it's blue" he goes "God put a blue film over it." To the child, this may be logical, but to everyone else, it sounds assinine. You say that the WWE only fires bad wrestlers, which of course explains why they've let people like Akio, Charlie Haas, and Sean O'Haire go--all wrestlers who have tremendous wrestling ability and a penchant for doing unique moves. You say that Cena is a good rapper... and maybe in freestyling, he is, but his CD was regarded by most rap critics as in the lower echelon of all rap CD's released last year. In other words, rap fans who know what they're talking about agree that Cena's album pretty much sucked.

Vince knows they are lazy, but keeps them because they have potential. Nothing wrong with that. He knows that eventually there is a chance they can break out, so he keeps them, no reason to rush, they are still good even when lazy. It's just that Rey is getting the world title and they are not. The news that were reported are nothing but rumor because they were not reported on the official site.

Akio was a good wrestler, but there is more to being in the WWE then just amazing wrestling. Akio had no mic skills and no character and he did not develop his mic skill or character. When he debuted he was silent japanese guy and he never changed.

Charlie Haas was taken back. Hopefully he has improved. Like Akio he suffered from character lack.

I did not see what's so special about O'Haire. Generic Hoss and he was bad on the mic. Good in pre recorded promos but bad live.

Like I said about Cena's disc, it is not the issue for me that it was bad or good. Someone said Cena was not a rapper and I said he was because he made a rap CD. Now, I tend to think that it was good and Music is something that is subjective, not objective. It sounded good to my ears, you might have a different taste and I don't trust "critics" when it comes to music.

You claim that a small crowd can influence hundreds more to chant what they chant, using a psychological "sheep mentality" argument as proof. Again, you assume that people will chant just because others are doing so. YOu assume that if they don't, they feel awkward. Again, this has no basis. Your friends may do that (or not). You may do that (or not). But that does not mean everyone does that. If you conducted a formal exit poll of wrestling fans exiting an arena and got their opinions, THEN that would be proof (if they said what you said). You argue that Mark Henry was the product of bad storylines. Nevermind he's been a sloopy worker and has injured other wrestlers (the latest being a botched splash on Batista a few months ago). You're being quite technical, so I don't see why you think Rey shares no blame in the Eddie incident. Earlier, you build him up like he's the best guy in the biz (or one of the best). So if he was really fervently behind Eddie, why didn't he just refuse? Lose a job? If he's that big, wouldn't Vince be afraid to fire him? After all, by your words, he keeps other Cruisers because of potential. If he's willing to do that, why would he fire his best Cruiser (again in your words)? And even if he were to lose his job... he's a huge name. He could go to another fed and get paid just about as much. So the fact that he did this indicates a level of personal blame. I'm not saying Rey's evil, but you cannot say he shares zero blame in this.

No one is going to admit that they went with the crowd. It is a proved fact that people fall under peer pressure. Do all of them? No, that's why a lot of people cheer for Cena. But do a lot of them? Yes. Read any psychology text book, it will tell you that pressure from those around you has a lot to do with you wanting to imitate them.

Batista was already wrestling injured. There is no 100% conformed report that Mark Henry caused the injury. WWE did say it, but only in storyline purposes. They did not say that it was the fault of Mark Henry on the website. Just because it was in a match with him, doesn't mean it's his fault.

Rey is one of the best guys backstage. There is nowhere to turn besides the WWE because Rey has to look out for his pay. No one pays as much as the WWE and rey knows this and there is no one that is a competitor in North America that will pay as much. I don't think that there was that much going on. Obviously WWE got permission from Eddie's family, so who is Rey to judge? Rey never did anything bad so he is in the clear, and whenever or not he should step in and fight Orton for doing it is up to debate because Orton was doing it for a storyline. Fight the WWE? they got permission from Eddie's family so there's not that much to do here.