Official WWE Armageddon PPV Discussion

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by road doggy dogg Oh, okay... no matter how much a guy goes over in a match, if they lose it, the WWE is retarded for not pushing him because he's young

It depends what they do from here, but the game is the same as its always been, you have a young guy with potential, the WWE books them in a high profile match with a legend, and the young guy loses, which tells the fans the old guys are better.

[Kenny]

Originally Posted by The CyNick It depends what they do from here, but the game is the same as its always been, you have a young guy with potential, the WWE books them in a high profile match with a legend, and the young guy loses, which tells the fans the old guys are better.

I don't think that's true and even when I was a kid first breaking into wrestling I didn't think that was true.

I can remember matches rooting for the face, where the face got the win by the skin of their teeth, my heart beating nearly out of my chest... and dancing like a little sissy bitch when the face won the match.

But in these matches the heels put that fear in me of "What if this match happens again". I think the WWE did the right thing with this match cause people love HBK, they want to push Batista, and they gave the HBK fans what they wanted while pushing Batista at the same time.

Why is it that when Jericho beat HBK on Raw, which wasn't a fair match a lot of people here were happy... yet those same people were pissed when HBK beat Y2J at Wrestlemania?

Jericho won, but if you're talking about the minds of the fans, he didn't win fair and square. So...? Is it really putting him over? If you ask me he was put over at Wrestlemania when he gave HBK the fight of his life.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Kenny5682 I don't think that's true and even when I was a kid first breaking into wrestling I didn't think that was true. I can remember matches rooting for the face, where the face got the win by the skin of their teeth, my heart beating nearly out of my chest... and dancing like a little sissy bitch when the face won the match. But in these matches the heels put that fear in me of "What if this match happens again". I think the WWE did the right thing with this match cause people love HBK, they want to push Batista, and they gave the HBK fans what they wanted while pushing Batista at the same time. Why is it that when Jericho beat HBK on Raw, which wasn't a fair match a lot of people here were happy... yet those same people were pissed when HBK beat Y2J at Wrestlemania? Jericho won, but if you're talking about the minds of the fans, he didn't win fair and square. So...? Is it really putting him over? If you ask me he was put over at Wrestlemania when he gave HBK the fight of his life.

The thing about the HBK-Jericho was that HBK won the most high profile match, and Jericho never got an equally high profile match. Yeah he won the RAW match, but thats not the match that people will talk about when you talk about the Jericho-HBK fued.

As for this match with Batista, if Batista dominates, loses, and then follows that up with a win in a high profile rematch, then its all good. But if you look at the past year esepcially, guys like HBK and Taker NEVER put over anyone, they always end up winning the high profile matches, and when they do JOBs (which I'm sure you know is different than putting someone over) its done in a way that the guy who got the win looks worse going out then they did coming in. Perfect example was Cena-Taker from the summer.

I go back to how the WWE pushed former mnster heels (which is what Batista should be), and none of those guys were doing JOBs for anyone. They came in, dominated, and then got defeated by some super babyface. The way the WWE books, they have 50-50 booking and nobody gets over.

[Kenny]

Originally Posted by The CyNick The thing about the HBK-Jericho was that HBK won the most high profile match, and Jericho never got an equally high profile match. Yeah he won the RAW match, but thats not the match that people will talk about when you talk about the Jericho-HBK fued. As for this match with Batista, if Batista dominates, loses, and then follows that up with a win in a high profile rematch, then its all good. But if you look at the past year esepcially, guys like HBK and Taker NEVER put over anyone, they always end up winning the high profile matches, and when they do JOBs (which I'm sure you know is different than putting someone over) its done in a way that the guy who got the win looks worse going out then they did coming in. Perfect example was Cena-Taker from the summer. I go back to how the WWE pushed former mnster heels (which is what Batista should be), and none of those guys were doing JOBs for anyone. They came in, dominated, and then got defeated by some super babyface. The way the WWE books, they have 50-50 booking and nobody gets over.

I think Taker and HBK have put plenty over. Specially Taker... Taker beat Cena, but Cena had Taker busted open pretty bad.

Plus to people like us who look at the WWE from a backstage POV... there are a lot of people out there who don't. And to them a guy like HBK or The Undertaker isn't just another wrestler. They are legends, top notch guys.

So yeah... Batista lost to HBK. Batista lost to the first ever grand slam winner, the 4 time WWF Champion, a guy who's headlined Wrestlemania's... a guy who's been around for over a decade.... that doesn't sound too bad in my book.

Batista pounding the shit out of this guy in a match... that makes Batista look pretty good. From what I read HBK pulled that win out of his ass.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Kenny5682 I think Taker and HBK have put plenty over. Specially Taker... Taker beat Cena, but Cena had Taker busted open pretty bad. Plus to people like us who look at the WWE from a backstage POV... there are a lot of people out there who don't. And to them a guy like HBK or The Undertaker isn't just another wrestler. They are legends, top notch guys. So yeah... Batista lost to HBK. Batista lost to the first ever grand slam winner, the 4 time WWF Champion, a guy who's headlined Wrestlemania's... a guy who's been around for over a decade.... that doesn't sound too bad in my book. Batista pounding the shit out of this guy in a match... that makes Batista look pretty good. From what I read HBK pulled that win out of his ass.

If this was MMA, I'd say Batista got over, and was just unlucky to lose.

But, this is not MMA, its all a work, and I think even the most casual fan knows that. Anyone who has watched more than 3 wrestling matches knows that a lot of times the face plays like he's in peril, but fights the odds and wins. Thats what happened here, the fans recognize it was just a storyline in a match, but at the end the 'better' guy won.

At the end of the day when guys lose on any kind of regular basis, the casual fan will just look at it and go 'that guy sucks'. Guys like Taker and HBK in order to serve their purpose on the roster should not only sell throughout an entire match in order to put someone over, but they should also lay down at the end to establish them as the dominant player. Fans like Taker and HBK, but if they get beat by up and coming guys, there is a better chance that fans will gravitate to the new guys and say 'those old guys suck'. That creates new stars, who can have fresh main event matches, and lead their company into the future. Unfortunately the WWE hasn't done that in years (except with Rock-Brock which is the perfect example of how to get a new guy over), and as a result they can create new stars who draw money, and they have the same guys on top who are not drawing very well.