The Official Shawn Michaels or Bret Hart Thread

[The One]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight I think the idea that the Simpsons would compare on a resumé compared to an episode of "Sabrina, the Teenage Witch" is simply idiotic. Or comparing it to Marc Mero, who shows up on news shows which talk about wrestling specifically. Guesting on the Simpsons is a pretty big deal. Guesting on Sabrina? Not so much. Guesting on Larry King to talk about steroids? Again, not so much. Does that make Bret a better draw? No. Does it indicate a level of popularity and a potential status as a "household name" that the others shows do not carry? Uh...Yeah. Should it be the only measure? No. Does it have an impact? Yes. This thread will now be the target of ToVo's markish reaction.

You're right KK. Well by my estimation The Simpsons is a far bigger and betetr show than That 70's Show, and CERTAINLY more in main stream than Star Trek shows...so does that mean The Rock, for a while anyway, didn't have the star power of a Bret Hart since he never was in the yellow town?

It was a 10 second clip of Burns moving out of his house. They could have put any worker of the time in there, or hell they could have made up a wrestler, which I'm almost positive most fans of The Simpsons who don't watch pro wrestling thought they did anyway.

I'm sorry, my examples weren't on par with the level of The Simpsons, my point was simply that it's fucking retarded to try and measure a wrestler's value based on their appearences on programs other than wrestling. But that's just me, I guess I watch wrestling for wrestlers, not to scope out who might make the next cameo splash.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by The One You're right KK. Well by my estimation The Simpsons is a far bigger and betetr show than That 70's Show, and CERTAINLY more in main stream than Star Trek shows...so does that mean The Rock, for a while anyway, didn't have the star power of a Bret Hart since he never was in the yellow town? It was a 10 second clip of Burns moving out of his house. They could have put any worker of the time in there, or hell they could have made up a wrestler, which I'm almost positive most fans of The Simpsons who don't watch pro wrestling thought they did anyway. I'm sorry, my examples weren't on par with the level of The Simpsons, my point was simply that it's fucking retarded to try and measure a wrestler's value based on their appearences on programs other than wrestling. But that's just me, I guess I watch wrestling for wrestlers, not to scope out who might make the next cameo splash.

That would be great if I was arguing which the better show was, or that the Simpsons was the ONLY show for which this counted, ToVo. Or if anyone had made those notions. Thing is, nobody did.

The Rock, for example, HOSTED SNL. Certainly, appearances in Star Trek are pretty meaningless, especially since it was a deal brokered not because of the star power (I mean, the Big Show also appeared on Star Trek), but because of marketing (Paramount wanted it to happen), but not being in the Simpsons alone doesn't mean that someone hasn't had their own crossover success. I mean, looking at the Rock, was Star Trek the best example you could think of? Maybe SNL, or the movies he's been in, or his dozens...AND DOZENS...Sorry, markish Rock moment...Of appearances in various places cemented him as a household name, dyathink?

That "ten second clip" Was about as much as most of the pop culture icons got on the Simpsons, BTW. And I don't even know who was on that 70s show, but the show was not really as indicative of pop culture as the Simpsons. I know they had some cool guests, but there is a certain cultural standpoint to appearing on the Simpsons to an extent that doesn't exist on That 70s show, or most other shows on TV.

Does that mean there are no other outlets? No, but you chose some really shitty examples. Marc Mero has made himself a career that would be worthy of "Where are they now?" shows only, and Billy Gunn had a bit part on a comedy that's nowherein the same league. I also don't see anyone arguing that Bret is a bigger celebrity than, say, the Rock, or Steve Austin, etc. Really, I don't.

As for your point of measuring people by their appearances outside of wrestling, you're wrong. Crossover success helped make wrestling big in the 80s AND in the 90s. The big stars will almost certainly be multimedia stars. That's a point that really does need to be made. And while you will find exceptions, they will certainly be rare. At least as far as the top of a generation go. So yes, outside impact can and does affect how popular a wrestler is, and even how successful. I'm not addressing this for its relevance to Bret Hart (BEcause I don't think it's relevant in this case), but that line of thought was just so phenomenally stupid, I had to say something about it.

But we're not comparing Bret to the Rock, or Austin, or Hogan, or other people who have megastardom under their belts. We're comparing him to Shawn Michaels, who is nowhere close to the Rock, or Austin, or Hogan in terms of appeal, popularity, or draw.