Who's the Better Big Screen Batman?

[Jeritron]

Originally Posted by thedamndest I disagree. I think Keaton had a distinct Wayne/Batman as well. The difference was that his movie wasn't as gritty, and it didn't feel like Bruce was as consumed by Batman as Conroy and Bale. It felt more like Bruce had a greater separation between himself and the cowl. I don't think that's all Keaton's fault though. In the Burton films, greater attention was placed on "Okay, you're Batman because your parents died. Go to it." They didn't really focus on the larger torment that the Nolan films did. I think it's just the evolution of the back story.

Although the last part is true, I disagree with this. If anything, I think it's the opposite. There is virtually no seperation between the character of Bruce Wayne and Batman in Tim Burton's movies.
When he's not out fighting crime, he's sitting in his house moaping. He sits in a dark room waiting for the signal, or sits in civillian clothing looking at case files in the batcave all day and night.
There really isn't a Bruce Wayne and a Batman, but rather Batman in the suit and Batman out of the suit.
From the way he interacts with Vicki Vale later in the movie, you can see that he obviously has a hard time seperating the two.

You never see Bruce Wayne being much of a public figure. At his own party he's hiding from the crowds and people don't recognize him.
The only other time you see him in public he's mourning his parents, and for a large part he's pretty much a hermit who sits around waiting for the cover of night.

I think it's subtle, but there's a lot of torture there. Also, in Batman Returns we see a scene of Batman simply driving around the city with no particular agenda. There is no crime occuring, and Penguin isn't a threat yet, but Batman still subjects himself to cruising around the night looking for a fight.

A lot of this is likely unintentional, but it's there. I don't think Burton or the screenwriters put much care into capturing the character of Bruce Wayne and creating a duality. They seem to have just gone for Batman, and everything he does while not in the suit is more of an afterthought. From there, Tim Burton just fills in the blanks and makes him a dark, quiet character.

[thedamndest]

Originally Posted by Jeritron Although the last part is true, I disagree with this. If anything, I think it's the opposite. There is virtually no seperation between the character of Bruce Wayne and Batman in Tim Burton's movies. When he's not out fighting crime, he's sitting in his house moaping. He sits in a dark room waiting for the signal, or sits in civillian clothing looking at case files in the batcave all day and night. There really isn't a Bruce Wayne and a Batman, but rather Batman in the suit and Batman out of the suit. From the way he interacts with Vicki Vale later in the movie, you can see that he obviously has a hard time seperating the two. You never see Bruce Wayne being much of a public figure. At his own party he's hiding from the crowds and people don't recognize him. The only other time you see him in public he's mourning his parents, and for a large part he's pretty much a hermit who sits around waiting for the cover of night. I think it's subtle, but there's a lot of torture there. Also, in Batman Returns we see a scene of Batman simply driving around the city with no particular agenda. There is no crime occuring, and Penguin isn't a threat yet, but Batman still subjects himself to cruising around the night looking for a fight. A lot of this is likely unintentional, but it's there. I don't think Burton or the screenwriters put much care into capturing the character of Bruce Wayne and creating a duality. They seem to have just gone for Batman, and everything he does while not in the suit is more of an afterthought. From there, Tim Burton just fills in the blanks and makes him a dark, quiet character.

That's true about Burton's Wayne. He doesn't get nearly as much time as Bale's, and when he does he's usually just hanging out with Alfred. But there are certain contexts where he seems like a normal guy. Take the party. Even though he had been kind of bored before he encounters Vicki and jokes around with her and Alex(?). In Returns he bumps into Selina Kyle on the street and awkwardly asks her out for a date.

In the same way Batman puts on a mask, so does Bruce Wayne. He needs to assume the mask of the bumbling fop billionaire, but only when he is around people other than Alfred.

I think you're right in that much more attention is placed on Batman's story. But if there's less separation between Batman and Bruce Wayne in these films it's because Batman isn't as gritty and Bruce Wayne isn't as developed as the other films.